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Smagon · **10-21-2015, 10:03 AM**

Personally I have always thought of them as a hamfisted way of incorporating game play mechanics into lore.

As for the IC side of things, I don't think you NEED one to be any job. Yes, it helps having decades+ of someone elses experience at your disposal but nothing says that you can't be a "fresh" Warrior or a whatever. The first of the jobs had to start somewhere and nothing says you can't try to figure it out on your own. Your skills won't be as refined as those of the guy with a magic stone with several lifetimes of memories on it rammed up his rear end but you can still do it.

Except for White Mage. The elements will summon Odin to kill you if you even try it.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 10:19 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:03 AM)Smagon Wrote: Personally I have always thought of them as a hamfisted way of incorporating game play mechanics into lore.

As for the IC side of things, I don't think you NEED one to be any job. Yes, it helps having decades+ of someone elses experience at your disposal but nothing says that you can't be a "fresh" Warrior or a whatever. The first of the jobs had to start somewhere and nothing says you can't try to figure it out on your own. Your skills won't be as refined as those of the guy with a magic stone with several lifetimes of memories on it rammed up his rear end but you can still do it.

Except for White Mage. The elements will summon Odin to kill you if you even try it.

And Black Magic which uses your own body's aether reserves will kill you. And Scholars need one to even comprehend Nymeian magic. And Summoners need one to comprehend Allagan magic.

And Bards need one to figure out how to sing aether into battle. You get the singing part down, and the arrow part down, but what you don't know how to do is magically make all the panties drop with a single note. That is what the soul crystal teaches you. It doesn't seem like something someone else could just teach you- you gotta prove you're worthy and then the crystal helps you feel the groove. It basically teaches you how to DRR on extreme mode.

Hammersmith · **10-21-2015, 10:41 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:19 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:03 AM)Smagon Wrote: Personally I have always thought of them as a hamfisted way of incorporating game play mechanics into lore.

As for the IC side of things, I don't think you NEED one to be any job. Yes, it helps having decades+ of someone elses experience at your disposal but nothing says that you can't be a "fresh" Warrior or a whatever. The first of the jobs had to start somewhere and nothing says you can't try to figure it out on your own. Your skills won't be as refined as those of the guy with a magic stone with several lifetimes of memories on it rammed up his rear end but you can still do it.

Except for White Mage. The elements will summon Odin to kill you if you even try it.
And Black Magic which uses your own body's aether reserves will kill you. And Scholars need one to even comprehend Nymeian magic. And Summoners need one to comprehend Allagan magic.

And Bards need one to figure out how to sing aether into battle. You get the singing part down, and the arrow part down, but what you don't know how to do is magically make all the panties drop with a single note. That is what the soul crystal teaches you. It doesn't seem like something someone else could just teach you- you gotta prove you're worthy and then the crystal helps you feel the groove. It basically teaches you how to DRR on extreme mode.

Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-. (I have no idea about BRD)

Scholar/Summoners need them because there's no one left alive to teach those particular schools of magic use. Â

Scholars were rare, even in Nymian ages, and Allag summoners...well. Â We all know what happened to Allag civilization if you've run the Crystal Tower. Â Â

So you CAN say you need them For SMN/SCH magic since they're the only source of getting the knowledge but, originally, these schools probably didn't need (But probably used) crystals. Â They don't unlock anything. Â The Scholar quest has you "find" a fairy, and the SMN job quests are you fucking around with primals to get access to the power.

Nothing soulstone unlocked there, other than the methodology to do the things.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 10:44 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:19 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:03 AM)Smagon Wrote: Personally I have always thought of them as a hamfisted way of incorporating game play mechanics into lore.

As for the IC side of things, I don't think you NEED one to be any job. Yes, it helps having decades+ of someone elses experience at your disposal but nothing says that you can't be a "fresh" Warrior or a whatever. The first of the jobs had to start somewhere and nothing says you can't try to figure it out on your own. Your skills won't be as refined as those of the guy with a magic stone with several lifetimes of memories on it rammed up his rear end but you can still do it.

Except for White Mage. The elements will summon Odin to kill you if you even try it.
And Black Magic which uses your own body's aether reserves will kill you. And Scholars need one to even comprehend Nymeian magic. And Summoners need one to comprehend Allagan magic.

And Bards need one to figure out how to sing aether into battle. You get the singing part down, and the arrow part down, but what you don't know how to do is magically make all the panties drop with a single note. That is what the soul crystal teaches you. It doesn't seem like something someone else could just teach you- you gotta prove you're worthy and then the crystal helps you feel the groove. It basically teaches you how to DRR on extreme mode.

Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-. (I have no idea about BRD)

Scholar/Summoners need them because there's no one left alive to teach those particular schools of magic use. Â

Scholars were rare, even in Nymian ages, and Allag summoners...well. Â We all know what happened to Allag civilization if you've run the Crystal Tower. Â Â

So you CAN say you need them For SMN/SCH magic since they're the only source of getting the knowledge but, originally, these schools probably didn't need (But probably used) crystals. Â They don't unlock anything. Â They Scholar quest you "find" a fairy, and the SMN job quests are you fucking around with primals to get access to the power.

Nothing soulstone unlocked there, other than the methodology to do the things.

The claim still stands that you would still be reliant on carbuncles without the soul crystals.

If not to access magic, soul crystals are a rite of passage. The symbol of what makes you who you are. If there is only one warrior stone, it has passed through the hands of your warrior by tradition, perhaps even only for a moment. A Monk with no soul crystal is like a karate expert with no belt. It's like showing up for a military event without all of your ribbons.

Hammersmith · **10-21-2015, 10:48 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:44 AM)Vyce Wrote: The claim still stands that you would still be reliant on carbuncles without the soul crystals.

Â
Yeah, I covered that under "No one is left to teach how to be a Sch or SMN". Â Of course you'd still be using a carby, there's no one except the crystal's centuryies of knowledge left to show you how to do any of this. Â Can't produce an entire magical discipline out of thin air, especially one that literally went extinct.

In their TIME though, in Nym and Allag, where these disciplines originated? Â I doubt you needed it, teachers existed, though I bet they were still -extremely helpful-.

Zoya · **10-21-2015, 10:50 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote: Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-.

And then you're left to wonder how a BLM soul crystal can even hold any kind of black magic knowledge.

I mean, in order for the empty crystal to be filled with knowledge, you need to perform the art.
In order to perform the art, you need a soul crystal filled with knowledge.

That doesn't quite work out.

mongi291 · **10-21-2015, 10:50 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:44 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:19 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:03 AM)Smagon Wrote: Personally I have always thought of them as a hamfisted way of incorporating game play mechanics into lore.

As for the IC side of things, I don't think you NEED one to be any job. Yes, it helps having decades+ of someone elses experience at your disposal but nothing says that you can't be a "fresh" Warrior or a whatever. The first of the jobs had to start somewhere and nothing says you can't try to figure it out on your own. Your skills won't be as refined as those of the guy with a magic stone with several lifetimes of memories on it rammed up his rear end but you can still do it.

Except for White Mage. The elements will summon Odin to kill you if you even try it.
And Black Magic which uses your own body's aether reserves will kill you. And Scholars need one to even comprehend Nymeian magic. And Summoners need one to comprehend Allagan magic.

And Bards need one to figure out how to sing aether into battle. You get the singing part down, and the arrow part down, but what you don't know how to do is magically make all the panties drop with a single note. That is what the soul crystal teaches you. It doesn't seem like something someone else could just teach you- you gotta prove you're worthy and then the crystal helps you feel the groove. It basically teaches you how to DRR on extreme mode.

Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-. (I have no idea about BRD)

Scholar/Summoners need them because there's no one left alive to teach those particular schools of magic use. Â

Scholars were rare, even in Nymian ages, and Allag summoners...well. Â We all know what happened to Allag civilization if you've run the Crystal Tower. Â Â

So you CAN say you need them For SMN/SCH magic since they're the only source of getting the knowledge but, originally, these schools probably didn't need (But probably used) crystals. Â They don't unlock anything. Â They Scholar quest you "find" a fairy, and the SMN job quests are you fucking around with primals to get access to the power.

Nothing soulstone unlocked there, other than the methodology to do the things.
The claim still stands that you would still be reliant on carbuncles without the soul crystals.

I don't know about SCH, but for SMN, it's Y'mithra who tells you how to do the Austerities of Fire/Earth/Wind. So something about SMN can be done without the Soul Stone, I guess. I only played SMN to 35 tho, so I'm not sure.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 10:51 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:48 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:44 AM)Vyce Wrote: The claim still stands that you would still be reliant on carbuncles without the soul crystals.
Â
Yeah, I covered that under "No one is left to teach how to be a Sch or SMN". Â Of course you'd still be using a carby, there's no one except the crystal's centuryies of knowledge left to show you how to do any of this. Â Can't produce an entire magical discipline out of thin air, especially one that literally went extinct.

In their TIME though, in Nym and Allag, where these disciplines originated? Â I doubt you needed it, teachers existed, though I bet they were still -extremely helpful-.

TBH, Allag was pretty damn cool. Nym was ok. But Allag! Look at all the cool shit they did. Even their demise was cool.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 10:53 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:50 AM)Zoya Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote: Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-.
And then you're left to wonder how a BLM soul crystal can even hold any kind of black magic knowledge.

I mean, in order for the empty crystal to be filled with knowledge, you need to perform the art.
In order to perform the art, you need a soul crystal filled with knowledge.

That doesn't quite work out.

Well, it is in part to do with changing of times. At one point there may have been very powerful wizards who could wield the magic unopposed. And then the Elementals were like, fuck that shit. Die.

mongi291 · **10-21-2015, 11:06 AM**

(10-21-2015, 10:53 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:50 AM)Zoya Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote: Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-.
And then you're left to wonder how a BLM soul crystal can even hold any kind of black magic knowledge.

I mean, in order for the empty crystal to be filled with knowledge, you need to perform the art.
In order to perform the art, you need a soul crystal filled with knowledge.

That doesn't quite work out.

Well, it is in part to do with changing of times. At one point there may have been very powerful wizards who could wield the magic unopposed. And then the Elementals were like, fuck that shit. Die.

What do the Elementals even have to do with Black Magic? That's White Magic.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 11:12 AM**

(10-21-2015, 11:06 AM)mongi291 Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:53 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:50 AM)Zoya Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote: Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-.
And then you're left to wonder how a BLM soul crystal can even hold any kind of black magic knowledge.

I mean, in order for the empty crystal to be filled with knowledge, you need to perform the art.
In order to perform the art, you need a soul crystal filled with knowledge.

That doesn't quite work out.

Well, it is in part to do with changing of times. At one point there may have been very powerful wizards who could wield the magic unopposed. And then the Elementals were like, fuck that shit. Die.
What do the Elementals even have to do with Black Magic? That's White Magic.

There was a war involving both that the Elementals put an end to. Likely both castes lost powerful mages.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **10-21-2015, 11:28 AM**

(10-21-2015, 11:12 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 11:06 AM)mongi291 Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:53 AM)Vyce Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:50 AM)Zoya Wrote:
(10-21-2015, 10:41 AM)Hammersmith Wrote: Out of those only BLM requires a soulstone since it's said, explicitly, not using a BLM soulstone while using BLM sets -you on fire and kills you-.
And then you're left to wonder how a BLM soul crystal can even hold any kind of black magic knowledge.

I mean, in order for the empty crystal to be filled with knowledge, you need to perform the art.
In order to perform the art, you need a soul crystal filled with knowledge.

That doesn't quite work out.

Well, it is in part to do with changing of times. At one point there may have been very powerful wizards who could wield the magic unopposed. And then the Elementals were like, fuck that shit. Die.
What do the Elementals even have to do with Black Magic? That's White Magic.
There was a war involving both that the Elementals put an end to. Likely both castes lost powerful mages.

This is in reference to the 6th Umbral Era, also known as a the War of Magi.

Elementals flooded the land, killing many of the mages who were abusing Black Magic and White Magic. THe Nymian Scholars got fucked over in it too.

But an important thing to consider is that the Soul Crystals -really- are optional. Think of them as materia of the soul. Someone did have to come around and learn how cast things "the proper way" first. As the WoL/Adventurer/Supergodlyrace that we play in game, we're already the super-special snowflake getting fancy toys handed to us without worry. We get access to those memories and experiences stored in the Soul Crystal, and it resonates. But many of the Job Quest NPCs state "you truly are a ______" before handing over the item that mechnically, tells the game client to switch your skills and adjust your stat points.

Can the average person necessarily learn [lost and hidden art] over the course of a month like the super battle nerd the WoL/Adventurer can? Probably not. But if we're talking just about Scholars and Summoners, I present, Alka Zolka and Y'mhitra. They can read [and understand] most of the older writings "lost through time" and no, they do not possess Soul Crystals. They use the Adventurer for that.

Zelmanov · **10-21-2015, 11:39 AM**

(10-20-2015, 08:31 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 08:30 PM)Zelmanov Wrote: I tend to ignore them, I'll never have a plotline involving a stolen or pick-pocketed soulstone robbing Orrin of his powers or anything of the like.Â

However I am lore-flexible (as always) so if anything Orrin has one, and has infused a great deal of his knowledge into it as well.
I should fix that...

well if your trip to azys lla happens to snag you a smn soulstone and you try to use that new found power to try and squish that pesky dragoon, I won't call foul.

Garalona · **10-21-2015, 11:41 AM**

The way I play soul crystals is they're a deeply personal connection that strengths over time. Gara doesn't talk about hers, and if others do, well... "Hmph. Damn kids, always showin' off."

That's just me.

Vyce · **10-21-2015, 12:02 PM**

Alka Zolka is a scholar but not a SCH. He can read the writings, but he cannot wield the magic.

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