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É´á´˜á´„ · **10-27-2015, 01:34 PM**

(10-27-2015, 09:08 AM)Black Hat Wrote: Anyways, there's nothing wrong with RPing the aesthetics of calling the spells by name....when you're RPing. I don't see a large scale change of the system mechanic names in the future no matter how hard one tries.

Can't disagree. I'd have no problem with another player RPing spells in this way, whether in conversation or in a duty, while I myself would stick to the game's conventions when it comes to discussing gameplay.

***Teadrinker*** · **10-27-2015, 01:35 PM**

I have no strong feelings one way or another.

Empath · **10-27-2015, 01:36 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Quote:Final Fantasy VIII is the first game in the saga to have the spell called Thundara. Thundara causes medium Lightning-elemental damage on one opponent. It is a common spell that can be drawn from various mid-level enemies in the game, as well as refined from items and lower level spells. Casting Thundara in battle increases compatibility with Quezacotl by 2, but lowers compatibility with Ifrit by 0.6 and with Eden by 0.2. When Magic Booster is used in the 2013 PC re-release, the player's inventory gains 100 Thundara spells, among other basic spells.

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.

I'm aware! But in the remakes of these titles, where the character limits were less restricting, they have gone back and changed them. See: the FFIII remake for DS and PC.Â
I also did mention in my original post that -ra/etc. spells are a somewhat recent development, but they are still more widespread than numerical spells at this point.

Kage · **10-27-2015, 01:37 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Quote:Final Fantasy VIII is the first game in the saga to have the spell called Thundara. Thundara causes medium Lightning-elemental damage on one opponent. It is a common spell that can be drawn from various mid-level enemies in the game, as well as refined from items and lower level spells. Casting Thundara in battle increases compatibility with Quezacotl by 2, but lowers compatibility with Ifrit by 0.6 and with Eden by 0.2. When Magic Booster is used in the 2013 PC re-release, the player's inventory gains 100 Thundara spells, among other basic spells.

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.

I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

Ashe · **10-27-2015, 01:37 PM**

Uuuuuuh, depends >>
ICly, no. ICly I wouldn't name spells if Ashe was to cast any. I would describe what they are doing and the person I'm fighting with can use their common sense to infer what I am doing. Like....

/emote channels aether and casts a large circle of fire around his target the flames immolating both the target and those around him/her/it.

....
That's Fire II >>

OOCly, no. IF I'm helping someone play, I"ll say the names of the spells that are displayed on the screen.

No Longer Exists · **10-27-2015, 01:48 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Ashe Wrote: Uuuuuuh, depends >>
ICly, no. ICly I wouldn't name spells if Ashe was to cast any. I would describe what they are doing and the person I'm fighting with can use their common sense to infer what I am doing. Like....

/emote channels aether and casts a large circle of fire around his target the flames immolating both the target and those around him/her/it.

....
That's Fire II >>

OOCly, no. IF I'm helping someone play, I"ll say the names of the spells that are displayed on the screen.

In this case, I cannot blame you. It -is- fun to infer rather than be outright but some RPers thoroughly enjoy casting rotes "Flames of Judgement. BURN! Firaga!" as an example. The aesthetic loses some of its fun and flash unless you're a retro-gamer like myself when you supplement firaga with "Flames of Judgement. BURN! Fir3" <---See, toldja it was 4 characters limited. Wink

I'm still not convinced that a game-wide alterations needs or even SHOULD be made though, to stick with the OP's original intention.

-Hatter

Warren Castille · **10-27-2015, 01:50 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Quote:Final Fantasy VIII is the first game in the saga to have the spell called Thundara. Thundara causes medium Lightning-elemental damage on one opponent. It is a common spell that can be drawn from various mid-level enemies in the game, as well as refined from items and lower level spells. Casting Thundara in battle increases compatibility with Quezacotl by 2, but lowers compatibility with Ifrit by 0.6 and with Eden by 0.2. When Magic Booster is used in the 2013 PC re-release, the player's inventory gains 100 Thundara spells, among other basic spells.

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.
I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

I could probably count on my genitals how many people here first played the FF games in the original Japanese.

I'm just saying that "legacy" in this case doesn't mean anything besides "version I liked best / saw first / is how they do it in other languages," none of which have any bearing on the game as a game. SE is trying to draw as many players as they can regardless of familiarity with the game series, and "Fira / Firaga / Firara / Firaja" doesn't denote any sort of hierarchy in terms of power or usefulness to someone who hasn't already seen them in other games.

Fire 1 2 3 4 is fairly straightforward, even if the AoE versions are a bit strange. If the game used more attack spells I could see them doing the XI version of both suffix and numeral-level for the combat system in XIV is incredibly anti-that.

It's weird, but it was weird in XI, too, and it was weird in other games too.

Ashe · **10-27-2015, 01:53 PM**

Yeah, if we're talking actual game mechanics, if you don't understand what Fire 1-4 are and you're a level 60 BLM....you probably shouldn't be a BLM anymore >>

Empath · **10-27-2015, 01:55 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Quote:Final Fantasy VIII is the first game in the saga to have the spell called Thundara. Thundara causes medium Lightning-elemental damage on one opponent. It is a common spell that can be drawn from various mid-level enemies in the game, as well as refined from items and lower level spells. Casting Thundara in battle increases compatibility with Quezacotl by 2, but lowers compatibility with Ifrit by 0.6 and with Eden by 0.2. When Magic Booster is used in the 2013 PC re-release, the player's inventory gains 100 Thundara spells, among other basic spells.

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.
I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

I could probably count on my genitals how many people here first played the FF games in the original Japanese.

I'm just saying that "legacy" in this case doesn't mean anything besides "version I liked best / saw first / is how they do it in other languages," none of which have any bearing on the game as a game. SE is trying to draw as many players as they can regardless of familiarity with the game series, and "Fira / Firaga / Firara / Firaja" doesn't denote any sort of hierarchy in terms of power or usefulness to someone who hasn't already seen them in other games.

Fire 1 2 3 4 is fairly straightforward, even if the AoE versions are a bit strange. If the game used more attack spells I could see them doing the XI version of both suffix and numeral-level for the combat system in XIV is incredibly anti-that.

It's weird, but it was weird in XI, too, and it was weird in other games too.

But that's the thing. Fire I, II, III, and IV do not denote their usefulness either. Fire 1 is the primary spell you should be using, whereas fire II is strictly an AoE and a poor choice for single target, Fire III should be used exclusively for refreshing astral fire stacks, and IV should be used to juggle Enochian.

They already don't make any sense in the slightest, nor are any of them particularly more "powerful" than other options. Each spell has a use, and the numerical system doesn't identify that just as much as the legacy terminology.

Kage · **10-27-2015, 01:56 PM**

I'll say it. I'm not going to re-learn skills' names after 2 years. Not for this game.

Ashe · **10-27-2015, 01:57 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:55 PM)Empath Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Quote:Final Fantasy VIII is the first game in the saga to have the spell called Thundara. Thundara causes medium Lightning-elemental damage on one opponent. It is a common spell that can be drawn from various mid-level enemies in the game, as well as refined from items and lower level spells. Casting Thundara in battle increases compatibility with Quezacotl by 2, but lowers compatibility with Ifrit by 0.6 and with Eden by 0.2. When Magic Booster is used in the 2013 PC re-release, the player's inventory gains 100 Thundara spells, among other basic spells.

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.
I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

I could probably count on my genitals how many people here first played the FF games in the original Japanese.

I'm just saying that "legacy" in this case doesn't mean anything besides "version I liked best / saw first / is how they do it in other languages," none of which have any bearing on the game as a game. SE is trying to draw as many players as they can regardless of familiarity with the game series, and "Fira / Firaga / Firara / Firaja" doesn't denote any sort of hierarchy in terms of power or usefulness to someone who hasn't already seen them in other games.

Fire 1 2 3 4 is fairly straightforward, even if the AoE versions are a bit strange. If the game used more attack spells I could see them doing the XI version of both suffix and numeral-level for the combat system in XIV is incredibly anti-that.

It's weird, but it was weird in XI, too, and it was weird in other games too.

But that's the thing. Fire I, II, III, and IV do not denote their usefulness either. Fire 1 is the primary spell you should be using, whereas fire II is strictly an AoE and a poor choice for single target, Fire III should be used exclusively for refreshing astral fire stacks, and IV should be used to juggle Enochian.

They already don't make any sense in the slightest, nor are any of them particularly more "powerful" than other options. Each spell has a use, and the numerical system doesn't identify that just as much as the legacy terminology.

It's like what you're supposed to do when you play children's card games.
You read the cards when you play those, right?
Read what the skills do!
Seriously, it's not that hard.

Empath · **10-27-2015, 01:58 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:57 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:55 PM)Empath Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:32 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'd like to call into question exactly how "legacy" these spells are. From one of the wikia pages:

Every other game prior to 8 called Thunder spells "Bolt" until you get to the remakes.

So... the legacy for people who played the originals ignore ra-ga-ja.
I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

I could probably count on my genitals how many people here first played the FF games in the original Japanese.

I'm just saying that "legacy" in this case doesn't mean anything besides "version I liked best / saw first / is how they do it in other languages," none of which have any bearing on the game as a game. SE is trying to draw as many players as they can regardless of familiarity with the game series, and "Fira / Firaga / Firara / Firaja" doesn't denote any sort of hierarchy in terms of power or usefulness to someone who hasn't already seen them in other games.

Fire 1 2 3 4 is fairly straightforward, even if the AoE versions are a bit strange. If the game used more attack spells I could see them doing the XI version of both suffix and numeral-level for the combat system in XIV is incredibly anti-that.

It's weird, but it was weird in XI, too, and it was weird in other games too.

But that's the thing. Fire I, II, III, and IV do not denote their usefulness either. Fire 1 is the primary spell you should be using, whereas fire II is strictly an AoE and a poor choice for single target, Fire III should be used exclusively for refreshing astral fire stacks, and IV should be used to juggle Enochian.

They already don't make any sense in the slightest, nor are any of them particularly more "powerful" than other options. Each spell has a use, and the numerical system doesn't identify that just as much as the legacy terminology.
It's like what you're supposed to do when you play children's card games.
You read the cards when you play those, right?
Read what the skills do!
Seriously, it's not that hard.

I cannot tell if you are supporting my point or attempting to invalidate it.

Ashe · **10-27-2015, 02:06 PM**

(10-27-2015, 01:58 PM)Empath Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:57 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:55 PM)Empath Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 01:37 PM)Kage Wrote: I guess if you're going by Japanese play it is? For those of us who played english versions, even FF7 had SpellNumerals. -ra, -ga, -ja for us were added in for other titles when they were remade / remastered.

Personally I don't mind the system as is. When I dabbled in some spell RP it was never "cast named spell". Even now, it's not a concern for me if I were to in the future. I mean it's not like I am going to 'cast Flash' in roleplay either.

I could probably count on my genitals how many people here first played the FF games in the original Japanese.

I'm just saying that "legacy" in this case doesn't mean anything besides "version I liked best / saw first / is how they do it in other languages," none of which have any bearing on the game as a game. SE is trying to draw as many players as they can regardless of familiarity with the game series, and "Fira / Firaga / Firara / Firaja" doesn't denote any sort of hierarchy in terms of power or usefulness to someone who hasn't already seen them in other games.

Fire 1 2 3 4 is fairly straightforward, even if the AoE versions are a bit strange. If the game used more attack spells I could see them doing the XI version of both suffix and numeral-level for the combat system in XIV is incredibly anti-that.

It's weird, but it was weird in XI, too, and it was weird in other games too.

But that's the thing. Fire I, II, III, and IV do not denote their usefulness either. Fire 1 is the primary spell you should be using, whereas fire II is strictly an AoE and a poor choice for single target, Fire III should be used exclusively for refreshing astral fire stacks, and IV should be used to juggle Enochian.

They already don't make any sense in the slightest, nor are any of them particularly more "powerful" than other options. Each spell has a use, and the numerical system doesn't identify that just as much as the legacy terminology.
It's like what you're supposed to do when you play children's card games.
You read the cards when you play those, right?
Read what the skills do!
Seriously, it's not that hard.

I cannot tell if you are supporting my point or attempting to invalidate it.

Both? It's hard to tell. I haven't had coffee yet.

Warren Castille · **10-27-2015, 02:09 PM**

Fire 1: 180 potency
Fire 2: 100 potency in a splash
Fire 3: 240 potency
Flare: 260 potency
Fire 4: 280 potency

It's game design. Your first spell is push button, receive damage. Your second button in the series is push button, do damage in a circle. Your third button in the series is push button, do more damage than first button. Your fourth button in the series of push button, blow up everything around your target. The fifth button in the series is push button, do even more damage.

There's a lot more nuance to it once you take the actual game mechanics into account (limited MP, astral stacks, all of BLM in general) but there is a very deliberate rhyme and reason to the structure. How would you rename these spells, then? Traditionally the game has always had it go Base > Ra > Ga > Ja. So... should Fire 1 be Firaga because it's more viable than Fire 3 when playing according to the mechanics?

Empath · **10-27-2015, 02:16 PM**

(10-27-2015, 02:09 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Fire 1: 180 potency
Fire 2: 100 potency in a splash
Fire 3: 240 potency
Flare: 260 potency
Fire 4: 280 potency

It's game design. Your first spell is push button, receive damage. Your second button in the series is push button, do damage in a circle. Your third button in the series is push button, do more damage than first button. Your fourth button in the series of push button, blow up everything around your target. The fifth button in the series is push button, do even more damage.

There's a lot more nuance to it once you take the actual game mechanics into account (limited MP, astral stacks, all of BLM in general) but there is a very deliberate rhyme and reason to the structure. How would you rename these spells, then? Traditionally the game has always had it go Base > Ra > Ga > Ja. So... should Fire 1 be Firaga because it's more viable than Fire 3 when playing according to the mechanics?

it's not really about it being 'viable', because, again, those words only depict what order you received the spells in in the Japanese incarnation and multiple other final fantasy titles (+ kingdom hearts). Fire, Fira, Firaga, and Firaja have different uses for different situations, exactly how they function is irrelevant. They are nearly the same in terms of game design, it's as simple as remembering that you received Fira before Firaga.

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Do you support legacy terminology? ('-ra' '-ga' spells)

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