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Larehawk · **12-09-2015, 09:53 PM**

Hello, I am new to RP in general, so please have mercy if this is a dumb question ;-;

So, I made it so my character can use Ice magic with an Astro globe. For example.

"Vektis tore a card from his globe and threw it at his opponent, the card turning into a icicle halfway through the hair, aiming for his opponents chest."

Is that acceptable? Or would that just be a form of thaum using an Astro globe. Or is THAT even a thing that would work? It's bugging me not knowing D:

Oli! · **12-09-2015, 10:57 PM**

Thaumaturgy as a form of magic requires very special materials in its focus, specifically bone / metal topped with a gemstone. Without this, it'll either not work, or you'll hurt yourself.

Apparently WHM during 1.0 had control over Ice, but considering there are some people who believe the 1.0 lore was retconned, and the fact that there is much debate over whether one can be a WHM at all, I'm not going to touch that in my post.

TL;DR, Umbral Ice requires a focus made out of THM materials, as far as we can tell (unless you eat a crystal and become Shiva I guess).

V'aleera · **12-09-2015, 11:24 PM**

(12-09-2015, 10:57 PM)Oli! Wrote: Apparently WHM during 1.0 had control over Ice, but considering there are some people who believe the 1.0 lore was retconned, and the fact that there is much debate over whether one can be a WHM at all, I'm not going to touch that in my post.

Small correction, but in 1.0 it was Conjurers who had access to the entire elemental spectrum, not White Mages exclusively.

And there is nothing in lore to support the notion that they no longer have access to them either. I believe there is an NPC quote from 2.0 that deals with the class changes, mentioning that since the Calamity Conjurers of Stillglade Fane have been focusing their abilities toward the healing arts.

Sounsy has a comprehensive mage post floating around which delves into all this.

Kage · **12-09-2015, 11:31 PM**

The Elemental Wheel is mentioned in Great Gubal Library notes so it's not really -retconned-.

Essences & permutations (Elemental Wheel):' Wrote:Chapter 1- The Six Nativities & Myriad Creation.
The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born.
The heat of Fire renders ash to all that it touches, and thus Earth is born.
The density of Earth shuns sun and harbors cold, and thus ice is born.
The armor of Ice melts away, and thus Water is born.
The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born.
The gusts and sighs of Wind gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born.

Chapter II - The Three Conquests, Boundless and Unwavering.
Earth Grounds Lightning.
Water erodes Earth.
Lightning boils Water.

Chapter III - The Three Submissions, Timeless and Unending.
Fire is extinguished by Wind.
Ice is melted by Fire.
Wind is obstructed by Ice.

Chapter IV - Dynamic Opposites & the Bifurcation of Polarity

The six elements are manifest in all things great and small, and their polarity deriveth from the Astral heavens above and the Umbral depths below.

Larehawk · **12-10-2015, 02:24 PM**

So, what I am getting is that, no, the thing I am trying to do would not work? If so, thats upsetting, I was having fun RP'ing that, and no one seemed to mind. D'awh....

Gegenji · **12-10-2015, 02:28 PM**

(12-10-2015, 02:24 PM)Larehawk Wrote: So, what I am getting is that, no, the thing I am trying to do would not work? If so, thats upsetting, I was having fun RP'ing that, and no one seemed to mind. D'awh....

Really, it's not that bad. Your ice puns, on the other hand... Wink

Seriously, though, most of Astrologian's magic is unaspected aether. If your character is naturally attuned to ice, perhaps those spells unintentionally gain that aspect. Bam. Astrologian with ice magic. Besides, if no one's really calling you out on it, I don't see it being that big of a problem.

Larehawk · **12-10-2015, 05:20 PM**

(12-10-2015, 02:28 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(12-10-2015, 02:24 PM)Larehawk Wrote: So, what I am getting is that, no, the thing I am trying to do would not work? If so, thats upsetting, I was having fun RP'ing that, and no one seemed to mind. D'awh....

Really, it's not that bad. Your ice puns, on the other hand...

Seriously, though, most of Astrologian's magic is unaspected aether. If your character is naturally attuned to ice, perhaps those spells unintentionally gain that aspect. Bam. Astrologian with ice magic. Besides, if no one's really calling you out on it, I don't see it being that big of a problem.

Oh, you recognize Vektis' work...how very...nICE of you! Wink

Â and thanks for the answer! Big Grin

V'aleera · **12-10-2015, 05:27 PM**

Magic tends to have a lot of wiggle room for creativity, I wouldn't worry too much about it and just go with what feels right.

One way you could justify using ice is by having your character specifically invoke the celestial sign of the Spear, which is connected to Halone's celestial realm of ice.

Larehawk · **12-11-2015, 11:43 AM**

(12-10-2015, 05:27 PM)V Wrote: Magic tends to have a lot of wiggle room for creativity, I wouldn't worry too much about it and just go with what feels right.

One way you could justify using ice is by having your character specifically invoke the celestial sign of the Spear, which is connected to Halone's celestial realm of ice.

I will be sure to do that actually, thank you!

Vyce · **12-11-2015, 12:52 PM**

Don't NIN also have access to several elements?

Erah'sae · **12-11-2015, 02:26 PM**

Given some of the above there is another angle you could approach this with.

I haven't seen much with astrologian that involves them actually throwing the cards so Â you have a lot of wiggle room for the mechanics here.

It could be conjuration on a subconscious level. Â Yes, the character has an astro globe and may even believe that they're using astrologian's unaspected magic. Â Drawing on surrounding aether to make the elemental ice around the thrown projectile of the card.

This could leave you some hooks later for having the character explore conjuration as well. We're not fixed to a single talent pool mechanically in the game.

Yssen · **12-11-2015, 02:39 PM**

There is a lot of wiggle room here, yes. Each of the casting guilds is more about the method of getting a magical effect to manifest, rather than the actual manifestation itself. How one is fueling the effect. I have not messed with Astro yet, but the other guilds basically break down like this.

Thaumaturgy - Fueled by the self and one's own aether reserves/life force. This is part of why it is sometimes referered to as blood magic.Â

Conjury - Technically fueled by the aether of the land around you and replaced with one's own aether reserves.

Arcanistry - Fueled by personal aether, but Arcanists also refuel themselves by drawing it out from the land around them in a sort of reverse of Conjury (Aetherflow).Â

Keep in mind this is a hard and fast description. There are other factors that define the methods (Glyphs, Prayer, Will, etc. etc.). By and large, the best way to look at it all is that these methods/schools provide a frame work based on efficiency and safety. Anyone that can channel aether can pull off some sort of magical effect (MNKs use Chakras, NINs have Mundras). Just because one can do something naturally does not mean they are doing so in the safest/most efficient manner. That is where formal training comes in, and each method has effects and purposes that they are more focused on. Thaumaturgy is largely destructive, Conjury largely healing and supportive, but this does not mean that one cannot pull off something not in the normal wheel house of a particular paradigm. By way of example, you can cross class Cure as a Thaumaturge and heal people, but that does not mean you are doing so as efficiently as the techniques and teachings of Conjury would let you. Yar.

Hope this is helpful.

Larehawk · **12-12-2015, 12:03 PM**

Thanks, all you guys! This has been a big help for me actually! I will sure to keep all of this in mind!

Astro Ice Mage?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes