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***RiniKett*** · **01-26-2016, 02:05 PM**

OoOoOooo...Kinda curious how many people might jump on this, but I am ignorant to the fact and would like a tad more knowledge about this.

Is it possible, though I suspect it to be at least rare, for our player characters to have the Echo without being a Warrior of Light?

If so what are the various types of Echos? I know a few players who play this, and I am not calling them out nor defending them, but it made me curious what the consensus was among the community.

Thanks for the input and have a good one!

FreelanceWizard · **01-26-2016, 02:20 PM**

This thread has a good discussion on it. To make a long story short, the Echo and being chosen by Hydaelyn aren't the same thing. The MSQ pretty dramatically clarifies this at the end of 3.0. It may be the case that the Echo typically comes part and parcel with being Chosen, or that it's a prerequisite for it, but it's definitely possible to have one and not the other.

In terms of rarity, yes, the Echo is rare, but there's also been multiple groups that have devoted themselves to studying it. Given that player characters are themselves a rarity among Eorzeans, it's not surprising that a greater percentage of them may be things that are asserted as generally rare in lore (e.g., adventurers, mages, miqo'te, and miqo'te males in particular). The Echo is rare, but it's not exceedingly so. The Echo can offer multiple abilities with varying levels of rarity; the powers that have been explicitly confirmed to be part of the Echo are:

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It's possible I've missed something in the list above. Smile

Protection from Tempering may or may not be part of the Echo. I tend to think that it's probably not, given some things said by Ifrit, but I don't think there's been any definitive statement on the matter.

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***RiniKett*** · **01-26-2016, 02:25 PM**

Thank you! Just what I was looking for!

FreelanceWizard · **01-26-2016, 02:33 PM**

You're welcome! Smile

One thing I'd add is that most with the Echo would pretty quickly realize they need to keep it quiet. The Scions actively seek out those with the Echo, but they're not the only ones. As Livia points out, Garlemald -- or at least the XIV Legion -- is actively seeking those with it to understand what it is and how it works, presumably so they don't have to keep employing the Brannigan Strategy ("throwing wave after wave of my own men at it") to eikon-slaying. Ascians have a vested interest in destroying or controlling those who possess it, since the Echo offers a significant advantage in dealing with them. Those without the Echo and without knowledge of it are likely to view the person with it as mad. So, it stands to reason that no one is going to actively shout to the heavens about having the Echo, if they even realize it is the Echo, which likely makes it seem even more rare and mysterious.

Sounsyy · **01-26-2016, 04:14 PM**

(01-26-2016, 02:05 PM)RiniKett Wrote: Is it possible, though I suspect it to be at least rare, for our player characters to have the Echo without being a Warrior of Light?

If so what are the various types of Echos? I know a few players who play this, and I am not calling them out nor defending them, but it made me curious what the consensus was among the community.

Yes, it is established in lore and very plausible to have the Echo and NOT be a Warrior of Light. In fact, there was an entire organization run by Minfilia in 1.0 that was composed entirely of members who bore the Echo gift, many of whom did not survive the Calamity, or Garlemald's sacking of the Waking Sands. These people were not all "chosen" by Hydaelyn, yet possessed the gift.

Other such instances of Echo occurring outside of Hydaelyn's influence include the Ascians, the Sahagin, and most importantly, a good many people who the Ascians blessed with the Echo.

Sahagin Priest Wrote:Pshhhahahahahahaaa! Ssstrike me down if you will! It is futile! I have massstered the gift! I am... eternal!

Here's a few quick links but we should clarify the difference between what the Echo is and what being a Warrior of Light is. They often come in tandem, but are not mutually exclusive. Which causes everyone a whole helluva a lot of confusion.

The Echo:

Encyclopedia Eorzea - The Echo Wrote:So, who were these Warriors of Light who led Eorzea back from the precipice of destruction? Study of ancient documents - from musty tomes to wall carvings - shows us they are not unique to the Sixth Astral Era, and that similar heroes have appeared before every Calamity to ensure mankind endures.

For example, before the great flood which marked the end of the Fifth Astral Era, legend tells us of twelve Archons who descended on Eorzea to warn its denizens of the rising waters. There are also tales from the Near East which follow the exploits of great warriors known as the Zodiac Braves - warriors whose appearance also happens to coincide with a past Calamity. What, then, ties these legendary figures with the Warriors of Light who emerged but five summers past? One answer might be the Mothercrystal and the power She is hypothesized as providing to those of Her choosing. Eorzean myth is full of tales of heroes who have been granted seemingly otherworldly powers. While much of this can be attributed to embellishments by bards looking to add spice to their honeyed tales of sword and sorcery, might it be that these tales also speak some truth, as the powers which they describe are often similar to ones documented by the Scions of the Seventh Dawn as being experienced by those few who have had contact with Hydaelyn? This power - known as the Echo - comes in many forms, several of which are listed below:

The Power to Transcend Words
For those blessed with the power to transcend words, language no longer poses a barrier to intercultural communication. Voiced utterances fade and are replaced by an internal understanding of another's intentions. Conversely, words spoken by one with this power are immediately understood by all, without need of linguistic interpretation.

The Power to Transcend Time
Those granted with this form of the Echo can mentally travel back in time to witness occurences experienced by another. It was originally thought that proximity with the memory holder was necessary for transcension; however, it has recently been discovered that residual mnemonic aether lingering in a location can also trigger these third-person flashbacks.

The Power to Transcend Worlds
Though rare, there have also been cases reported of individuals who, through the manifestation of Hydaelyn's very Light, can walk the aetherial plane and communicate directly with the planet Herself.

Encyclopedia Eorzea - The Blessing of Light Wrote:If recollections of self-proclaimed heroes are to be believed, Hydaelyn will often attempt to make contact with those who posess the Echo - sometimes in the form of a voice, other times in the form of a vision, and still other times in the form of enhanced senses or protective barriers to shield against powerful magicks. These boons have been called "blessings of Light," yet despite their frequency, little is known about them. However, it is assumed that many of the "miracles" which appear in myth and legend are actually instances of Hydaelyn bestowing Her blessing upon an individual.

Minfilia Wrote:And what you possess is a rare talent which we have come to refer to as â€œthe Echo.â€ We believe it is in some way connected to the strange phenomena which have been occurring in locations all about Eorzea. Were you not witness to the skies turning dark and showering the land with a storm of stars? Some of our brothers believe those who partook in this celestial event were â€œtouchedâ€ by the Twelve, and that that is how they came by their gift. The Path is not only a place for study, but a refuge for those who have been touched in some way. We aim to uncover the meaning behind these unexplained events while offering protection and guidance to those who hear the Echo.

Minfilia Wrote:I pray together we can learn more of this gift...for though we have scoured the realm for nigh on ten years, I fear there is still little we understand. Scores of men and women have passed through our doors looking to find answers, and scores have embarked on quests to do just that...but their efforts have gained us little...and many have not returned. Of those few who have...not one is willing to speak of what he saw at the end of the Path. It is as if they all bore witness to a truth too terrible...or too shameful to be told.

There are those here who would have me use the Echo to delve into the past of the returned. Yet it would be wrong of me to use my gift to tear that truth from them against their will. Were I to condone such an act of violation, we would be no better than the monsters people think us already.

Minfilia Wrote:Ah, but enough talk of the knowledge we lack. Let me tell you of what we do know. The Echo allows you to breach the wall of a person's soul, and hear the resonations of their past. You will be there in their memories, seeing things as they saw them. You may even interact with that which lies therein. However, the past is like a stone tablet. You cannot uncarve what is already written.

As an unexpected side-effect of the gift, it seems the ability to reach into the soul of another also allows some of us to understand their words without having to comprehend the sounds they utter. In short, the Echo has granted these fortunate souls mastery of every language existing on Hydaelyn.

Unfortunately, that is the sum of our understanding of this gift from the gods... Why, we are not even sure the gift is from the Twelve. It is certainly true that many of those who hear the Echo also claim to have witnessed starshowers, but who is to say that even the starshowers are sent by them?

It is a sad admission, but this very lack of knowledge accounts for much of the persecution faced by our walkers. The less that is known about something, the more it is distrusted by the masses. If we were to learn more of the Echo, perhaps we could educate people, and help them to realize that we mean them no harm... But until we have learned that which we must teach them, we can expect only hatred.

Minfilia Wrote:Our order is home to a number of individuals who, like you, possess a rare and special talent. This talent takes various forms, but one holds particular interest for us. Tell me, have you ever experienced a sudden, inexplicable loss of consciousness? Have you ever had the sensation of being pulled away from reality? Felt as though you were hovering in space, a mind without a body?

The Echo allows you to pass through the walls of a man's soul, and hear the resonations of his past. You will be there in his memories, and see things as he saw them. You may even interact with that which you see, though you cannot change the outcome of events. For another blessing, the Echo will enable you to know a man's mind even if you cannot comprehend his words. In short, the Echo is a truly extraordinary power. And this power is strong within you. It is only a shame that we cannot use it whensoever we choose.

Fenana Wrote:Hundreds...thousands...perhaps even hundreds of thousands walk the Path of the Twelve. You need not be one of us to see how far our influence extends throughout the realm.

Path Companion (Elezen Male) Wrote:We are not without power, for we have all been granted a gift which allows us visions of the past and the ability to read the hearts of others. However, this gift has also proven our curse, for the Empire has branded us evil...as they have branded you.

Minfilia Wrote:Yet even as Ifrit took your comrades in his thrall, you alone remained unaffected. This is thanks to the power you possess - the Echo. We know not the why of it, but those blessed with the Echo are immune to primal influence.

It is as though a great power protects us...

Krile Wrote:Our order is devoted to uncovering the mysteries of Hydaelyn and interpreting Her will, particularly through the study of Her gift to us. It was in the course of these studies that I met and subsequently befriended Minfilia. She and I have rather a lot in common.

Krile Wrote:On the cusp of an Umbral Calamity, souls blessed with the power of the Echo invariably appear. To aid these Her chosen warriors, Hydaelyn bequeaths to each a sliver of Her strength in the form of a Crystal of Light. But as Her strength wanes, so too does the potency of Her gifts. This crystal, born of an earlier era, is infused with a power far greater than those of this age.

*This quote suggests that the Echo manifests first, and Hydaelyn then chooses to protect these people with her Blessing and use them as her champions. Again, inferring that the Echo and Hydaelyn's Blessing are, in fact, separate entities.

Krile Wrote:No two manifestations of the Echo are alike. I, for example, can converse with beings of every shape and size - excepting beasts, contrary to what others would have you believe. Language has nothing to do with it, of course; rather, I am sensitive to the whispers of the soul. Their intent, their very essence even.

Nenekani Wrote:Nenekani can see the past no more clearly than any man might if he closed his eyes and pictured his breakfast. However, the Gods did see fit to bless me with a proficiency in languages, including those of the beast tribes. It is an aptitude that has proven not only useful, but also profitable.

Loam-scented Lady Wrote:Many here have unique gifts, from the ability to bend the will of a beast with a sword, to the ability to bend the will of a beast with a word. As for those who hear the Echo and can delve deep into the pasts of others, there are yet but few, though their numbers have been on the rise as of late. Who knows what that might portend? Could the Twelve be preparing mankind for a terrible bale?

Unnamed NPC Wrote:We are each blessed in different ways. While I was given the gift of farsight, the gods did not see fit to grant me with the ability to comprehend languages. What of you, Sounsyy? Have you spoken with our visitors? Were you able to understand them? Something tells me you will prove our savior this day.

Now, there's an apparent lore incongruity regarding the Echo I should bring up. In 1.0, the gift of understanding every tongue of man and beast like our Player Character does, was exceedingly rare gift unique to us. In 1.0, Minfilia was not able to understand the sylvan language, but in 2.0, she appears to be fluently versed in it, as well as Ascian.

Fernehalwes Wrote:When the Echo â€œtranslatesâ€ for someone, it is a joint effort between the listenerâ€™s mind and Hydaelynâ€™s gift. The gift is providing the knowledge, while the listenerâ€™s mind is using its previously compiled linguistic background to compile the data into something more familiar.

Tataru Wrote:Sounsyy! A party of frenzied sylphs has spirited past our sentries and trapped Lady Minfilia in the Hall of the First Step! They have gathered in the Hall, shouting in their strange tongue; however, there are few here who can understand them, myself included! Oh, whatever shall we do? If anything were to happen to the Antecedent...

Minfilia Wrote:I-I...I apologize, my friends. I do not understand your words.
Brothers! Sisters! Is there anyone here who can speak the language of the sylphs?

THAT SAID, even in Minfilia's 2.0 explanation of the Echo, she says that not every Echo user can understand every tongue. She makes the distinction that every Echo user can understand a man's mind.

Minfilia Wrote:For another blessing, the Echo will enable you to know a man's mind even if you cannot comprehend his words.

So, can all Echo users speak every language? No. Can all Echo users understand the thoughts/intentions of another being? Possibly yes.

Hope this helps! ^^ Lemme know if you have more questions!