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Warren Castille · **02-23-2016, 01:33 PM**

Take heart, tanks. Early parses have determined how effective VIT and STR are now!

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Aaron · **02-23-2016, 01:40 PM**

I guess that's why one of those quests had materia as a gift. . .

Warren Castille · **02-23-2016, 01:42 PM**

Can't pentameld attributes anymore. Tank DPS got fucked.

mongi291 · **02-23-2016, 02:31 PM**

Oh, well, I was leveling PLD just so I could stop caring about DPS anyway, so eh.

Edgar · **02-23-2016, 03:31 PM**

I never gave a damn, anyroad. I was hoarding VIT long before this patch.

Warren Castille · **02-23-2016, 03:34 PM**

For those of us who liked being able to help speed along kills on bosses, this is a slap in the face.

I'm guessing this is just the beginning of a paradigm shift; There's a lot of reports of healers in raid gear having awful accuracy trying to DPS in the new dungeons, too. I think it's an overall scaling back of expected DPS requirements, and helping slide some pressure off of non-DPS.

Edit: What I'm most interested in is how this impacts the other level 60 dungeons. Total party DPS just dropped on a lot of encounters, and overgeared tanks may not be able to make up for it with the lack of threat in off-tank stances.

Valence · **02-23-2016, 03:36 PM**

(02-23-2016, 01:33 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Take heart, tanks. Early parses have determined how effective VIT and STR are now!

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nyttyn from BG stated:
"STR is now worth 0.45 AP - Vit is worth the same. This effectively means that you lose some amount of damage from leftside gear, and rightside gear damage contribution plummeted. Enjoy having to spend out the ass for expensive pentameld accessories.

So, enjoy a nice, fat, roughly 20%ish (according to the parses going around) DPS nerf. Because Tanks needed their damage cut by an entire fucking fifth. Go fuck yourself square enix.

Best part is this doubles down and means any tank not named Warr "my DPS combo is also my threat combo lol" ior gets double dip penalized, because lower DPS means you can't tank in DPS stance without losing hate, which lowers DPS even further."

I... am not sure to get why that guy is so mad... He is not happy because he can't do a tank job in DPS stance anymore?

He is kidding right?

Warren Castille · **02-23-2016, 03:39 PM**

(02-23-2016, 03:36 PM)Valence Wrote:
(02-23-2016, 01:33 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Take heart, tanks. Early parses have determined how effective VIT and STR are now!

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nyttyn from BG stated:
"STR is now worth 0.45 AP - Vit is worth the same. This effectively means that you lose some amount of damage from leftside gear, and rightside gear damage contribution plummeted. Enjoy having to spend out the ass for expensive pentameld accessories.

So, enjoy a nice, fat, roughly 20%ish (according to the parses going around) DPS nerf. Because Tanks needed their damage cut by an entire fucking fifth. Go fuck yourself square enix.

Best part is this doubles down and means any tank not named Warr "my DPS combo is also my threat combo lol" ior gets double dip penalized, because lower DPS means you can't tank in DPS stance without losing hate, which lowers DPS even further."

I... am not sure to get why that guy is so mad... He is not happy because he can't do a tank job in DPS stance anymore?

He is kidding right?

Probably backlash and panic in the face of realizing tanks can't help contribute to beating DPS checks. We know SE said they'd be less important in the future, but if they're present, they just hamstrung a lot of tanks being able to help make the difference. It's jarring to be abruptly dropped from the strength-focused meta that's been in play since 2013.

Valence · **02-23-2016, 03:42 PM**

As long as tanks didn't get penalized in the way that they actually spent a lot of time getting those STR gear... I mean, tanks get reimbursed or helped shifting to VIT, I hope?

If yes, then it's all good to me...

Also, is that such a bad thing that the game high end content gets a bit harder? Especially when SE said clearly that they calibrate their tests on that only with taking DPS from the DPS jobs into account? So, that's hardly unfeasible.

Warren Castille · **02-23-2016, 03:47 PM**

(02-23-2016, 03:42 PM)Valence Wrote: As long as tanks didn't get penalized in the way that they actually spent a lot of time getting those STR gear... I mean, tanks get reimbursed or helped shifting to VIT, I hope?

If yes, then it's all good to me...

Also, is that such a bad thing that the game high end content gets a bit harder? Especially when SE said clearly that they calibrate their tests on that only with taking DPS from the DPS jobs into account? So, that's hardly unfeasible.

It depends on what you mean by "penalized" really. Warrior and Dark Knight self-heals just took a big shot, and with the higher HP given with VIT gear it's a large dropped percentage. Anyone wearing STR gear will have the same attack power as another tank in VIT gear, they just lose the HP attached to the vitality bump. There's also the small sticking point that parry is worthless, so you're potentially losing secondaries.

I think/hope most of this is just surprise at how much the role just got adjusted. Doing a full fifth less damage overnight is going to make anyone worry a little about the future. I will echo the same worry that even when overgearing current content's HP requirements it'll still be risky to DPS in off-tank stances due to the lowered base enmity. It's a big change for anyone who was playing in the old meta, with a lot of questions raised we can't know the answer to on day one. This was a lot of change out of nowhere.

Edit: No, no gear gets reimbursed. Buy new stuff or wait for dungeon drops.

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-23-2016, 05:22 PM**

Technically the Str gear is probably better in some cases, as it has better secondaries. Unless you're doing ex primals or savage alexander you can still use your STR gear.Â

The extra few thousand health doesn't really make as much difference as determination instead of parry.

Silane · **02-23-2016, 05:38 PM**

End game accessories give 66 vit vs 61 str which is 2.25 more attack power per accessory. It is also well over 1k health per accessory. Tank damage was already hit with a pretty big stick, the only thing we can look forward to is that Vit scales higher than Str does on gear now (It has more Vit on tank accessories than Dps accessories have Str)

Kage · **02-23-2016, 06:02 PM**

(02-23-2016, 05:22 PM)McBeefÂ© Wrote: Technically the Str gear is probably better in some cases, as it has better secondaries. Unless you're doing ex primals or savage alexander you can still use your STR gear.Â

The extra few thousand health doesn't really make as much difference as determination instead of parry.

Current meta is that since STR and VIT's contribution towards Attack power are both 0.45, you need less 'good' secondaries than before to make up for the loss in AP from your main stat loss.

However it's a bit minimal. Full VIT will still be better than Full STR but if you mix in something like a CRIT/DET STR Accessory over a ACC/Parry VIT accessory you may get better results.

I know some people were already getting shit for still having some STR accessories. You do however -definitely- want your 35 points in VIT. Bad players who only follow "well these people say it's better" and don't play well are the bane of all players, especially when they are a bad tank and have no idea how to hold aggro even at full VIT and never leaving tank stance.

Edit: I'm more concerned if whether or not this means that when I have 28k HP that the healer will notice that I'm not able to keep my HP up as much as before with a near 20% loss in damage.

Silane · **02-23-2016, 06:43 PM**

Yea when healers complained tanks are harder to heal when we had full STR (We were easier to heal) I just laughed and asked them why they are actually healing me when I'm missing 500 dmg and gonna heal for over 1k in the next soul eater..now that we have a ridiculous amount of HP and less self heals I believe healers will realize just how much tanks were healing themselves before

Roe Dad · **02-23-2016, 07:18 PM**

(02-23-2016, 06:43 PM)Silane Wrote: Yea when healers complained tanks are harder to heal when we had full STR (We were easier to heal) I just laughed and asked them why they are actually healing me when I'm missing 500 dmg and gonna heal for over 1k in the next soul eater..now that we have a ridiculous amount of HP and less self heals I believe healers will realize just how much tanks were healing themselves before

Those were bad healers then Tongue

. But not all tanks had good self heals, but those should be a last measure as a healer we should make your job easy. Only bustin out the heavy stuff as a last ditch. But most healers don't know how tanks really work, they should play one and see how it is from the other side of things.

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