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SapphireSkylines · **03-20-2016, 07:32 PM**

Hi there! So I've wanted to create a linkshell with this idea in mind, but before I do, I'd like to get an interest check and a lore check as well. I'm not entirely sure if this would break lore or not, so having constructive criticism on this idea would be appreciated! Anyways:

So every generation there are the Warriors of Light, a group of adventurers that band together to stop evil from wreaking havoc into the world, there are people such as Minfillia and your character in the questline that have the power of the echo, a rare gift bestowed to the Warriors of Light to get direct messages from Hydaelyn herself. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.)

What if the Twelve had also sent guidance to these Warriors of Light in the form of mortal beings, bestowed with special gifts and wisdom to help the Warriors of Light along their journeys. Originally called the Keepers of the Twelve, these people were mainly known as sages or oracles to their patron god or goddess, but in the present day, they are now hidden in the crowd and could be any sort of person. The only way a person can tell if someone is a Keeper of the Twelve is if they have a god or goddess's symbol anywhere on their body, much like a tattoo.

Not much is known about the Keepers of the Twelve except that there may be a theory that these individuals had been reincarnated multiple times and are in fact the same people, just with a different names and appearances, but are either born with their patron god or goddess's mark on their skin or the mark revealing itself on their skin later in life.

In total there are twelve keepers, one for each deity. Each keeper represents their god or goddess and may have traits similar to their god or goddess and have unusual, unexplained powers or talents that match their god or goddess. For example, the keeper of Thaliak the Scholar may have a strong affinity to magic, be intelligent yet reserved, and have a strong resistance to water spells or the Keeper of Menphina may be charismatic, flirty, and have a strong resistance to ice or even use ice magic themselves. Whatever abilities they have is up to the player who plays the character.

Anyways! What do you guys think? The only requirement is that their in-game guardian deity should match the god or goddess they'd like to be a keeper of.

Capheira · **03-20-2016, 10:15 PM**

Playing a character who speaks on the behalf of the gods might be... pushing it.
Unless I've read this incorrectly, playing an adviser to the Warriors of Light has huge potential for god-modding and such. That's my two cents. If I've misunderstood, I apologize profusely.

Maia · **03-21-2016, 12:11 AM**

This is just my two gil, and you can absolutely feel free to disregard if it's straying too far from your original vision.

If it were me, I might toe away from connecting this group or order with the Warrior of Light, or with any worldly legends or extraordinary powers. I can understand the appeal of wanting to directly use the MSQ - and there may even be a "Warrior of Light" LS that you can collaborate with out there - but if you want to aim for a broader appeal, I'd focus on exploring Eorzea's religion as we know it.

I'm not sure if the Twelve Gods are ever shown as directly intervening or granting any individuals special powers, so that might turn off people who are very straight with the lore. The same could be said with creating an ancient order that also isn't mentioned in the lore of the game.

An alternate approach might be to create a religious linkshell focused on those who hold strong servitude and piety toward the Twelve Gods. There could be a "Hierophant" for each of the twelve deities, who can be considered a leader of sorts in terms of knowledge, social communion, and ceremony. But I think there could also be room for further classifications to broaden your player base, creating a hierarchy involving other titles, such as "Priests" or "Clerics." If it were a modern-day collection of devouts who have their hands dipped in the various religious institutions strewn throughout the game, I think that would have a pretty far-reaching appeal. For example, the Hierophant (or whatever "leader" term you'd like to use) for Halone could be based out of Ishgard, with the one for Nald'thal having their roots in Ul'dah, etc.

There are some very religiously devout characters in my LS and they do wonderful extrapolations on the ideals of Rhalgr and Nald'thal without using any special powers or secret societies. I think that the religion as it's shown in the game, and exploring the way people demonstrate their faith, is a gold mine of opportunities for creativity, collaboration, and even strife. It's fascinating!

But hey, all you really need is a small group of like-minded people to toss their hat in to what you're describing to make it work. So if you can find that, then my advice on "broadening the appeal" is pretty moot! At the end of the day, you can do whatever you want in whatever way you'd like, and I'm not trying to discourage or suppress that in any way. Just offering optional suggestions based on my experience with the RPs and such!

FreelanceWizard · **03-21-2016, 02:35 AM**

(03-20-2016, 07:32 PM)SapphireSkylines Wrote: So every generation there are the Warriors of Light, a group of adventurers that band together to stop evil from wreaking havoc into the world, there are people such as Minfillia and your character in the questline that have the power of the echo, a rare gift bestowed to the Warriors of Light to get direct messages from Hydaelyn herself. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.)

Let me help out a bit from a lore perspective. Smile

"Warriors of Light" is a term coined by the people of Eorzea to refer to the heroes who defended Louisoix at the Battle of Carteneau. Memories of these people were "wiped away" in a blinding light, and those people began appearing 5 years after the Calamity (at the start of 2.0).

"The Warrior of Light" is the main character of the MSQ.

The Blessing of Light is a poorly-understood magical effect that appears to grant its possessor significant strength and protection against the powers of the followers of Zodiark (Ascians, specifically). The only characters that are known to possess it are Ysayle and the Warrior of Light, but an early 2.0 MSQ cutscene and Koji Fox's statements indicate that there are many with the Blessing of Light, chosen for different purposes.

The Echo is an extremely poorly-understood magical effect that, as the Ascians put it, allows one to break down the barriers between beings. It's confirmed to provide a wide variety of powers, but they vary from person to person; the ability to understand any language is one of the rarest ones. The Echo is rare among the populace but is common enough to have entire organizations devoted to seeking out those who have it and studying it, and the Garleans actively seek out those who have it. Certain people (Krile and the XIVth Legion, possibly other Garleans as well) believe that the Echo protects its possessor from being tempered by Primals.

So, in terms of lore, the Echo doesn't give a person the ability to receive messages from Hydaelyn. That would be the Blessing of Light, which isn't the same thing as the Echo. The best evidence for that is that Ascians possess the Echo, and as the chosen of Zodiark, they sure don't have the Blessing of Light. It isn't known if the Echo is a prerequisite for the Blessing of Light, but the Blessing of Light is not a requirement for the Echo.

What's interesting about your idea is that what you're talking about sounds a lot like the Archons and one of the predecessor organizations to the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Sounsyy will be around momentarily to go over the 1.x lore on that, I suspect. Smile

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-21-2016, 04:02 AM**

My character is an atheist, so I am interested in this concept. I need more people to yell "SHEEPLE" at.

SapphireSkylines · **03-21-2016, 08:41 AM**

@Capheira - Thanks for the input! The last thing I want is to have a LS full of god modders. I don't think I'd allow people to have certain abilities to avoid that sort of thing. I think instead of powers it'd be more like personality and appearance traits. But I'm thinking the aspect will be a different idea entirely by the time I'm done fixing things.

@Maia - Your idea actually might be a good one... except I'd have to really change my character to fit the mold of being devoutly religious and giving her a reason to become a Heirophant, so I don't know. But it might develop some good character development material.

@FreelanceWizard - Thanks for clearing that lore bit up. I actually think I might research more on the Archons and the Echo.

@McBeef - LOL!

Warren Castille · **03-21-2016, 08:51 AM**

Random thoughts since it's Monday morning and my lore brain isn't awake yet:

Aren't the Scions related in some way to the Twelve, hence the tattooes and stuff? Uncle Lou came bearing a staff engraved Thaliak's mark, and is involved in the closest experience wherein the Twelve are prominent.

We don't know if they actually exist. Garlemald thinks they're just the human equivalent of the beast tribes' Primals, and we can't prove one way or the other which is true.

The idea certainly has a lot of storytelling merit, but has a lot of potential to do that ugly thing in RP where it splits continuity between those involved and those not involved. Warrior of Light's already got a support group in the Scions, and being his Twelve-borne spiritual advisors would more likely than not put you into their social circles, too.

There's also the concern that we find out in a patch or three down the road that, due to unrevealed lore stuff surrounding the Twelve, your entire story is obliterated by retcon cannons.

I think it could be neat fiction, or an excellent aside-plot that happens out of the public RP domain.

Virella · **03-21-2016, 08:53 AM**

From what I'm reading here... I got to echo Capheira words here.

What you seem to be trying is to roleplay are Archons, and those people are ehhh. Well, we haven't seen them on Eorzea in forever, and those are lore figures (the current ingame event is all about this). So I would personally shy away from it. However a LS for echo users ect? THAT would be super cool. Or perhaps just find people who are super dedicated to their Gods ect.

However I could be completely off that this was your intention.

Anyhow...

What are Archons?

Show Content

In any case, have my full post on that sort of stuff http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread....#pid244032

Warren Castille · **03-21-2016, 08:56 AM**

Additionally, taken from the FFWiki:

Quote:In the quest Of Archons and Muses, it is said that the Archons are the manifestations of The Twelve. There is mention of a Roegadyn Archon named Ahldbhar, the incarnation of Rhalgr, and Louisoix's staff bears the mark of Thaliak.

Kage · **03-21-2016, 09:16 AM**

Except, Fernehalwes has made a statement about Archons before at the Fanfest Lore Panel explaining that the Archons aren't these mystified manifestations of beyond-man.

(10-18-2014, 08:12 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Circle of Knowing actually Archons?
-Circle of Knowing ARE Archons! Archons goes back multiple eras. Near end of astral era, people that remembered the past will come to eorzea and inform them that Umbral eras are coming. Those prepared people will survive. This happens repeatedly every astral era closing. Different Archons every time. Circle of Knowing BECAME archons. Tattoos on their neck will be explained 2.4

And here is some other conjecture brought up about archons.

Warren Castille · **03-21-2016, 09:19 AM**

(03-21-2016, 09:16 AM)Kage Wrote: Except, Fernehalwes has made a statement about Archons before at the Fanfest Lore Panel explaining that the Archons aren't these mystified manifestations of beyond-man.

(10-18-2014, 08:12 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Circle of Knowing actually Archons?
-Circle of Knowing ARE Archons! Archons goes back multiple eras. Near end of astral era, people that remembered the past will come to eorzea and inform them that Umbral eras are coming. Those prepared people will survive. This happens repeatedly every astral era closing. Different Archons every time. Circle of Knowing BECAME archons. Tattoos on their neck will be explained 2.4

And here is some other conjecture brought up about archons.

That doesn't say anything about excluding them from being aspects of the Twelve, it just says they're accurate doompreppers.

This is what makes it so hard to lorecheck the ambiguous stuff: even the clarifications aren't clear.

Kage · **03-21-2016, 09:21 AM**

(03-21-2016, 09:19 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-21-2016, 09:16 AM)Kage Wrote: Except, Fernehalwes has made a statement about Archons before at the Fanfest Lore Panel explaining that the Archons aren't these mystified manifestations of beyond-man.

(10-18-2014, 08:12 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Circle of Knowing actually Archons?
-Circle of Knowing ARE Archons! Archons goes back multiple eras. Near end of astral era, people that remembered the past will come to eorzea and inform them that Umbral eras are coming. Those prepared people will survive. This happens repeatedly every astral era closing. Different Archons every time. Circle of Knowing BECAME archons. Tattoos on their neck will be explained 2.4

And here is some other conjecture brought up about archons.

That doesn't say anything about excluding them from being aspects of the Twelve, it just says they're accurate doompreppers.

This is what makes it so hard to lorecheck the ambiguous stuff: even the clarifications aren't clear.

It doesn't exclude them from it but you are not confined to them. Don't see the problem with pointing that out when people seem to want to make it seem that way.

We forget all too well that there's a lot of faith checking done with lore in this game when you take an NPC's 'word'. They've admitted more than a few times that Word of God is really Word of God because they may want to mislead us. NPCs aren't all-knowing. Word of God is.

Warren Castille · **03-21-2016, 09:28 AM**

(03-21-2016, 09:21 AM)Kage Wrote: It doesn't exclude them from it but you are not confined to them. Don't see the problem with pointing that out when people seem to want to make it seem that way.

We forget all too well that there's a lot of faith checking done with lore in this game when you take an NPC's 'word'. They've admitted more than a few times that Word of God is really Word of God because they may want to mislead us. NPCs aren't all-knowing. Word of God is.

Even the Word of God doesn't necessarily make anything clear, though.

Whenever these topics come up, people weigh in on them. I think we're all just tired of the most accurate response being "Sure, but maybe not" for the myriad different reasons we're given as things become more clear, or we have conflicting sources, or we're just guessing.

Yssen · **03-21-2016, 11:13 AM**

(03-21-2016, 09:28 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-21-2016, 09:21 AM)Kage Wrote: It doesn't exclude them from it but you are not confined to them. Don't see the problem with pointing that out when people seem to want to make it seem that way.

We forget all too well that there's a lot of faith checking done with lore in this game when you take an NPC's 'word'. They've admitted more than a few times that Word of God is really Word of God because they may want to mislead us. NPCs aren't all-knowing. Word of God is.

Even the Word of God doesn't necessarily make anything clear, though.

Whenever these topics come up, people weigh in on them. I think we're all just tired of the most accurate response being "Sure, but maybe not" for the myriad different reasons we're given as things become more clear, or we have conflicting sources, or we're just guessing.

Until there is a full blown FFXIV Ultimania or some other such giant guide "sure, but maybe not" is going to always be the most common answer. Word of God as far as lore for the moment comes from the Story and Lore Devs, even when it contradicts what NPCs are saying. Everything stated by any NPC should always be taken with a grain of salt. That is spiffy state we live in. Sorta like the people piecing together lore for SoIaF, it is all strewn across character PoV and all of it was suspect. Then the World Book came out and confirmed the things that Martin did not confirm in person. Nature of story telling in this fashion.

Slight edit because I hit enter too fast. - Because of the fluid nature of the lore and story it is often best to determine what it is your character believes, rather than worry about whether or not your character is right in that belief. Being right or wrong in the OOC of it does nothing to serve character/story development when you get down to brass tacks.

Warren Castille · **03-21-2016, 11:15 AM**

(03-21-2016, 11:13 AM)Yssen Wrote:
(03-21-2016, 09:28 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-21-2016, 09:21 AM)Kage Wrote: It doesn't exclude them from it but you are not confined to them. Don't see the problem with pointing that out when people seem to want to make it seem that way.

We forget all too well that there's a lot of faith checking done with lore in this game when you take an NPC's 'word'. They've admitted more than a few times that Word of God is really Word of God because they may want to mislead us. NPCs aren't all-knowing. Word of God is.

Even the Word of God doesn't necessarily make anything clear, though.

Whenever these topics come up, people weigh in on them. I think we're all just tired of the most accurate response being "Sure, but maybe not" for the myriad different reasons we're given as things become more clear, or we have conflicting sources, or we're just guessing.

Until there is a full blown FFXIV Ultimania or some other such giant guide "sure, but maybe not" is going to always be the most common answer. Word of God as far as lore for the moment comes from the Story and Lore Devs, even when it contradicts what NPCs are saying. Everything stated by any NPC should always be taken with a grain of salt. That is spiffy state we live in. Sorta like the people piecing together lore for SoIaF, it is all strewn across character PoV and all of it was suspect. Then the World Book came out and confirmed the things that Martin did not confirm in person. Nature of story telling in this fashion.

Well, yeah, but in that case we can just slap a sticky up in the forum saying "Every concept is fine, but maybe not later on."

It's fun to discuss these things.

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