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Yandros · **07-10-2016, 02:59 PM**

It really comes down to what people have said. Â Out of the races in game, Lalafell hold the highest chance of being trollplayers. Â Those folks that are obviously out to troll and bother you, but the moment you call them out, cry about how "I was just IC! Â It is how my character is!". Â
As well, as others pointed out, there are those who sexualize Lalafell in completely creepy ways. Â Or they just act like utter creeps. Â Such as, I've learned that on a roe lady? Â Don't wear a dress. Â Doesn't matter where I go (as in, it happens outside the Quicksand), I will have a lala target me and walk under the dress. Â Typically followed by either an emote or a tell about how they are looking up my lady's dress/skirt.

So yeah, after pretty much -all- my experiences with Lalafell falling into one of those categories? Â I am hesitant to rp with them.

As'elena · **07-10-2016, 03:41 PM**

Yea, most of my Lalafell experiences have been pretty bad outside of my FC.

That being said, one of my very first random roleplay on Balmung was with a Lalafell and it was the best interaction I've had in a good while back then. I regret not adding him to my friend's list and I do not remember his name.Â Sad

ExAtomos · **07-10-2016, 07:33 PM**

(07-10-2016, 02:59 PM)Yandros Wrote: It really comes down to what people have said. Â Out of the races in game, Lalafell hold the highest chance of being trollplayers. Â Those folks that are obviously out to troll and bother you, but the moment you call them out, cry about how "I was just IC! Â It is how my character is!". Â
As well, as others pointed out, there are those who sexualize Lalafell in completely creepy ways. Â Or they just act like utter creeps. Â Such as, I've learned that on a roe lady? Â Don't wear a dress. Â Doesn't matter where I go (as in, it happens outside the Quicksand), I will have a lala target me and walk under the dress. Â Typically followed by either an emote or a tell about how they are looking up my lady's dress/skirt.

So yeah, after pretty much -all- my experiences with Lalafell falling into one of those categories? Â I am hesitant to rp with them.

(07-10-2016, 03:41 PM)As Wrote: Yea, most of my Lalafell experiences have been pretty bad outside of my FC.

That being said, one of my very first random roleplay on Balmung was with a Lalafell and it was the best interaction I've had in a good while back then. I regret not adding him to my friend's list and I do not remember his name.Â

Arg... that really sucks. Sad

While I certainly understand the reaction, I do wish that lalas wouldn't be painted with the same broad brush. I mean, what can I do to change attitudes? :/ I RP Ralin with the same thoughtfulness I do all of my characters, but to not be given a chance? ._.

(On my old server, I changed my gameplay main from midlander to lala for about half a year. Had someone, a friend at that, spam the disgust emote at me whenever he saw me from then on. I've had folks on Balmung talk about hurting or killing my lala alt and joke about how I can't possibly hurt them back. It's funny the first time, but gets old fast. I've definitely been on the receiving end of some lala hate. lol.)

As'elena · **07-10-2016, 07:49 PM**

(07-10-2016, 07:33 PM)ExAtomos Wrote:
(07-10-2016, 02:59 PM)Yandros Wrote: It really comes down to what people have said. Â Out of the races in game, Lalafell hold the highest chance of being trollplayers. Â Those folks that are obviously out to troll and bother you, but the moment you call them out, cry about how "I was just IC! Â It is how my character is!". Â
As well, as others pointed out, there are those who sexualize Lalafell in completely creepy ways. Â Or they just act like utter creeps. Â Such as, I've learned that on a roe lady? Â Don't wear a dress. Â Doesn't matter where I go (as in, it happens outside the Quicksand), I will have a lala target me and walk under the dress. Â Typically followed by either an emote or a tell about how they are looking up my lady's dress/skirt.

So yeah, after pretty much -all- my experiences with Lalafell falling into one of those categories? Â I am hesitant to rp with them.

(07-10-2016, 03:41 PM)As Wrote: Yea, most of my Lalafell experiences have been pretty bad outside of my FC.

That being said, one of my very first random roleplay on Balmung was with a Lalafell and it was the best interaction I've had in a good while back then. I regret not adding him to my friend's list and I do not remember his name.Â

Arg... that really sucks.

While I certainly understand the reaction, I do wish that lalas wouldn't be painted with the same broad brush. I mean, what can I do to change attitudes? :/ I RP Ralin with the same thoughtfulness I do all of my characters, but to not be given a chance? ._.

(On my old server, I changed my gameplay main from midlander to lala for about half a year. Had someone, a friend at that, spam the disgust emote at me whenever he saw me from then on. I've had folks on Balmung talk about hurting or killing my lala alt and joke about how I can't possibly hurt them back. It's funny the first time, but gets old fast. I've definitely been on the receiving end of some lala hate. lol.)

I do always give everyone a chance! I don't frequent Ul'dah, so I generally don't encounter many Lalafell at all. (Don't really see them in fair Limsa!)

Yandros · **07-10-2016, 08:07 PM**

(07-10-2016, 07:33 PM)ExAtomos Wrote: Arg... that really sucks.

While I certainly understand the reaction, I do wish that lalas wouldn't be painted with the same broad brush. I mean, what can I do to change attitudes? :/ I RP Ralin with the same thoughtfulness I do all of my characters, but to not be given a chance? ._.

(On my old server, I changed my gameplay main from midlander to lala for about half a year. Had someone, a friend at that, spam the disgust emote at me whenever he saw me from then on. I've had folks on Balmung talk about hurting or killing my lala alt and joke about how I can't possibly hurt them back. It's funny the first time, but gets old fast. I've definitely been on the receiving end of some lala hate. lol.)

Unfortunately I know the hate. Â I used to play both blood elves and pandaren in WoW, and both were on the receiving side of a fair amount of player bias.

The best thing that I can suggest doing? Â Is honestly just start slowly. Â Make friends with people OOC, and reassure them that your lala is not the same as others. Â Then, roleplay with them in public. Â People will see that, and honestly? Â It will stick in their brain. Â They may not put you on their friend's list or anything, but chances are they will at least think twice the next time they run into you. Â Which is at least a start.

But in the end, and here is where the jaded cynical side of me speaks. Â You just cannot change public opinion easily. Â Or even effectively. Â There are too many lala out there who are perfectly content to play the creeper. Â And there are too many out there to play the troll. Â Until the ratio changes, to where the majority are not creepy little trolls? Â Then yeah, the hate will not change. Â And right now? Â Lalas are creepy little trolls, by a wide wide WIDE margin.

Caspar · **07-10-2016, 10:37 PM**

(07-10-2016, 08:07 PM)Yandros Wrote:
(07-10-2016, 07:33 PM)ExAtomos Wrote: Arg... that really sucks.

While I certainly understand the reaction, I do wish that lalas wouldn't be painted with the same broad brush. I mean, what can I do to change attitudes? :/ I RP Ralin with the same thoughtfulness I do all of my characters, but to not be given a chance? ._.

(On my old server, I changed my gameplay main from midlander to lala for about half a year. Had someone, a friend at that, spam the disgust emote at me whenever he saw me from then on. I've had folks on Balmung talk about hurting or killing my lala alt and joke about how I can't possibly hurt them back. It's funny the first time, but gets old fast. I've definitely been on the receiving end of some lala hate. lol.)

Unfortunately I know the hate. Â I used to play both blood elves and pandaren in WoW, and both were on the receiving side of a fair amount of player bias.

The best thing that I can suggest doing? Â Is honestly just start slowly. Â Make friends with people OOC, and reassure them that your lala is not the same as others. Â Then, roleplay with them in public. Â People will see that, and honestly? Â It will stick in their brain. Â They may not put you on their friend's list or anything, but chances are they will at least think twice the next time they run into you. Â Which is at least a start.

But in the end, and here is where the jaded cynical side of me speaks. Â You just cannot change public opinion easily. Â Or even effectively. Â There are too many lala out there who are perfectly content to play the creeper. Â And there are too many out there to play the troll. Â Until the ratio changes, to where the majority are not creepy little trolls? Â Then yeah, the hate will not change. Â And right now? Â Lalas are creepy little trolls, by a wide wide WIDE margin.

I'd be able to examine whether your assertion at the end there was fact if I met a sufficient number of actual Lalafell RPers rather than whatever it is people find in the QS. Whether it's justified or not, I don't really have a statistically significant basis to know or judge. Which is fine, since it's immaterial to me calling that assertion irrational and impossible to prove.Â

Most of the time, when I read another Lalafell's search info, it is exclusively an ERPer, a PVE character, or an alt. There are trolls and creepers in every race, but because there are so few actual Lalafell RPers, they make a convenient target for assertions like "you're all creepy little trolls" because there are insufficient numbers to go beyond selection bias; you only ever meet a few in your time playing the game, and so results can differ wildly. Since we're so uncommon, I'd be interested in figuring out how you came to the conclusion that the majority are trolls and creeps. I've not been counting other Lalafell players, myself, since it's kinda pointless, and the acquaintances I know who regularly play I can count with one hand.

It's one of the consequences of going against the grain, and I've accepted that I'm not going to get as much RP as other players do by being pretty or badass-looking. That being said, what you're doing is punching down on a smaller group that can't defend itself from accusation, for things that are common to basically every category of player, every race.Â

I don't like the whole "guilty until proven innocent approach." In the first place, talking about an entire race and the players who prefer it gives the false impression that there's some sort of monolithic Lalafell club that is constantly looking up skirts. There is no Lalafell community, just like there's no secret Dragon or Cat club, just loose bonds of connections of convenience and friendship. Players of similar style and sense might stick together, but there's really only sheer numbers vs numbers of individuals, and there are less Lalafell individuals to choose from. Since there's so few Lalafell, if you meet one jerk, you're unlikely to meet another who is a serious enough RPer to even the score. Who will even challenge your assumptions?

I understand that you've had a bad experience or two, and I'm sorry for that. I've met creepy players and trolls, and in both cases they were whatever race the player felt like using. Usually they weren't RPers at all. Even so, I wish I could better understand the feelings behind the general atmosphere of apprehension common to RPC players. I've only experienced one big drama bomb, so I have a lot of trouble relating to the feeling that "all players of a certain type are this way," or "I can't RP in public because I'm scared of this thing happening." To me it is terribly sad. But far worse is the fact that I can't say anything to reassure or improve people's moods for lack of my own context.

To be frank, though, while I have my stereotypes, and I've certainly been mistreated by other RPers, I've never held strangers responsible for their actions, and I refuse to do so. If they don't want to play with me because of my race, that's fine. Any number of selfish reasons, like not feeling they fit into personal headcanon or obsession with realism, I'll gladly accept. But I'd like for them to not blame me for the actions of others. Neither do I want to be lumped in with others who share my own displeasure at your statement either. I dislike it for my own reasons, because I think it's irrational, divisive and damaging to other players. I would say the same thing even if it wasn't my race.

If the impression you get of another category of player is negative, and you say things like your last line as if it is a statement of fact, please reconsider your opinion. Consider how many RPers you've met who fit that description outside of the race, and how few Lalafell you've actually encountered. Look inward first, then outward. Consider whether your judgment has any basis or if it's just the aftershocks of a few bad evenings.Â

If you know the hate, you must know how it feels. Why would you go about worsening that kind of behavior when you yourself understand what it means to make an unpopular choice of character or race? I hate the Pandaren, for instance, but were I playing that game, I would never begrudge someone their choice of it. (Unless I felt they were doing a one-panda Chinese minstrel show, but that's another debate entirely.) Think about what you're saying. You're demanding that all players who prefer a certain kind of aesthetic prove they're not predators or bullies. Does that seem reasonable to you in any other context? Would you have felt it was fair that everyone assumed you were culturally insensitive for picking Pandaren? What is inherently harmful about our choice of race?

Yandros · **07-10-2016, 11:10 PM**

Caspar, I stand fully by what I said. Â It is what I have experienced, and how I both view the subject matter and how I choose to play. Â Kinda sorry not sorry that it seems to have bothered you so much? Â But in the end, yeah. Â After bad experiences with creeps, I tend to take a: Â "Show me you are different, and I will happily rp with you" viewpoint. Â Maybe that is not the nicest way to play, but it saves me drama in the game.

Beyond that, I offered what I thought was actually a decent solution. Â You have to show that you are different, when public opinion and thought says things are of a specific way. Â It sucks, but that is just life.

However this is the last I am going to post here. Â It is getting towards the more argumentative side of discussion, at least in my eyes. Â So if you would like to continue, feel free to send a PM. Â Otherwise, I am not going to clog up a person's thread.

Knislinge · **07-10-2016, 11:11 PM**

Aw man, I feel for you. I played Altmer in TESO, it was a huge struggle to not be seen as a designated villain - I had a particularly memorable incident where my priestess character was talking politely to an (also Altmer) military officer at a market, and like three different Khajiit guards came up and went "Not making any trouble are you?!" It ended up being this kind of embarrassing scene with several guards because two dang elves were having tea and conversation.

My suggestion would be to just keep trying - eventually you'll run into people who are actually decent, and the ones who go "omg no lalafels pls" or ignore you, honestly, probably aren't worth RPing with in the first place.

Caspar · **07-10-2016, 11:40 PM**

(07-10-2016, 11:10 PM)Yandros Wrote: Caspar, I stand fully by what I said. Â It is what I have experienced, and how I both view the subject matter and how I choose to play. Â Kinda sorry not sorry that it seems to have bothered you so much? Â But in the end, yeah. Â After bad experiences with creeps, I tend to take a: Â "Show me you are different, and I will happily rp with you" viewpoint. Â Maybe that is not the nicest way to play, but it saves me drama in the game.

Beyond that, I offered what I thought was actually a decent solution. Â You have to show that you are different, when public opinion and thought says things are of a specific way. Â It sucks, but that is just life.

However this is the last I am going to post here. Â It is getting towards the more argumentative side of discussion, at least in my eyes. Â So if you would like to continue, feel free to send a PM. Â Otherwise, I am not going to clog up a person's thread.

I'm not offended, I simply think that way of thinking is wrong. People aren't perfect and you've every right to do things your own way. Likewise, I'm going to point out when I think an attitude does nobody any good whatsoever.

Quote:Aw man, I feel for you. I played Altmer in TESO, it was a huge struggle to not be seen as a designated villain - I had a particularly memorable incident where my priestess character was talking politely to an (also Altmer) military officer at a market, and like three different Khajiit guards came up and went "Not making any trouble are you?!" It ended up being this kind of embarrassing scene with several guards because two dang elves were having tea and conversation.

My suggestion would be to just keep trying - eventually you'll run into people who are actually decent, and the ones who go "omg no lalafels pls" or ignore you, honestly, probably aren't worth RPing with in the first place.

It's interesting to see that kind of "racial profiling" in a game though. I mean, it can create some pretty interesting situations. I don't know much about TES lore, but I guess they're often seen as criminals or villains?

In such cases where natural suspicion is warranted by the lore, I can kinda understand the player's actions. It's when the player has an unreasonable OOC bias and it ruins both their play and the play of others that I can't excuse them. I can forgive a lot, but I want others to judge me on a basis of my play first and foremost, rather than concept, assumption or precedent.

Knislinge · **07-10-2016, 11:53 PM**

(07-10-2016, 11:40 PM)Caspar Wrote:
(07-10-2016, 11:10 PM)Yandros Wrote: Caspar, I stand fully by what I said. Â It is what I have experienced, and how I both view the subject matter and how I choose to play. Â Kinda sorry not sorry that it seems to have bothered you so much? Â But in the end, yeah. Â After bad experiences with creeps, I tend to take a: Â "Show me you are different, and I will happily rp with you" viewpoint. Â Maybe that is not the nicest way to play, but it saves me drama in the game.

Beyond that, I offered what I thought was actually a decent solution. Â You have to show that you are different, when public opinion and thought says things are of a specific way. Â It sucks, but that is just life.

However this is the last I am going to post here. Â It is getting towards the more argumentative side of discussion, at least in my eyes. Â So if you would like to continue, feel free to send a PM. Â Otherwise, I am not going to clog up a person's thread.
I'm not offended, I simply think that way of thinking is wrong. People aren't perfect and you've every right to do things your own way. Likewise, I'm going to point out when I think an attitude does nobody any good whatsoever.

Quote:Aw man, I feel for you. I played Altmer in TESO, it was a huge struggle to not be seen as a designated villain - I had a particularly memorable incident where my priestess character was talking politely to an (also Altmer) military officer at a market, and like three different Khajiit guards came up and went "Not making any trouble are you?!" It ended up being this kind of embarrassing scene with several guards because two dang elves were having tea and conversation.

My suggestion would be to just keep trying - eventually you'll run into people who are actually decent, and the ones who go "omg no lalafels pls" or ignore you, honestly, probably aren't worth RPing with in the first place.
It's interesting to see that kind of "racial profiling" in a game though. I mean, it can create some pretty interesting situations. I don't know much about TES lore, but I guess they're often seen as criminals or villains?

In such cases where natural suspicion is warranted by the lore, I can kinda understand the player's actions. It's when the player has an unreasonable OOC bias and it ruins both their play and the play of others that I can't excuse them. I can forgive a lot, but I want others to judge me on a basis of my play first and foremost, rather than concept, assumption or precedent.

Well, in The Elder Scrolls lore there's a lot of in-universe racism and prejudice between the races, which is all fine and good, but it bled a lot into OOC I felt.

It's even sillier here - the lalafel NPCs you meet are pretty varied characters! Hell, I'd say that they're more commonly foul-mouthed 'edgy' little adults than a lot of the other races. (Or it just stands out more when they are, with their appearances and all. Also very likely).

And... I don't think the "prove me wrong" arguement is very fair at all. As much as we like to put things neatly into boxes, there's never 'that one race' in RP - where literally everyone is just terrible. People always deserve the benefit of the doubt, or at least a few emotes worth of attention, before you know whether or not you think you'll mesh.

I've seen the same arguement used against noble RP. "I've never seen it done well, but you're welcome to try and prove me wrong". Well... one person's bad experiences is not the responsibility of every noble (or in this case, lalafel). It's something everyone has to remind themselves of once in a while, but it is important to give people a chance. Otherwise, we'll all end up sitting around with Hyur or Miqo'te, because "well no one wanted to RP with any other race I rolled". And how boring would that be?

Baby Hands · **07-11-2016, 03:22 AM**

(07-10-2016, 08:07 PM)Yandros Wrote: There are too many lala out there who are perfectly content to play the creeper. Â And there are too many out there to play the troll. Â Until the ratio changes, to where the majority are not creepy little trolls? Â Then yeah, the hate will not change. Â And right now? Â Lalas are creepy little trolls, by a wide wide WIDE margin.

You make it sound like playing a creepy character is an inherently bad thing. As if creepy people aren't something that exist in real life, let alone Eorzea.

'Hate' is a pretty strong word for RP that doesn't appeal to your sensibilities. It's not hard to just "/em turns around and walks away." And where do you even draw the line at a troll? Do you mean an emote spamming PvEer that doesn't RP but is in the Quicksand? Or a character that gets trashed and loudly compliments your characters amazing legs? God forbid.

If you don't want to chance creeps and trolls in your RP don't do public, open or walk-up RP. A simple solution to a simple problem. I understand some people take it personally if not everyone treats their character well, so if you have this problem I'd recommend never RPing outside of party chat.

I feel bad Caspar wrote all that stuff for you only to see you brush it off with an unfair viewpoint, but like Knislige said maybe lalafell RPers are better off. Knowing that a few bad apples ruining the whole for you is silly sure is nice, otherwise I'd have packed up my shit and left ages ago thanks to cancerous opinions like these.

ExAtomos · **07-11-2016, 08:32 AM**

Yeah, there's a huge difference between disdain for lore reasons (for example, against Duskwights due to their being thieves and sneaks) and for reasons that are purely ooc based. Lore I can work with, I can't do anything with mindsets like "all people who play lalas are no good". But y'all have raised a good point... are those who RP as lalafell being lumped in with those who are just trolling?

I have no problem blacklisting trolls with the hopes that, if everyone ignores them, they'll get bored and go away. And if that person wants to actually RP later, well too bad. But this is based reactively on that one person's actions rather than proactively just saying because you are a certain shape, I won't interact with you at all.

I do want to add, if anyone likes suspense and tension in their RP (lalafell or otherwise), I'd love to hang out. I just have an aversion to silliness atm. XD (I'm also totally laughing at the incongruity of me wanting dark rp while having a qiqirn icon. xDDD )

Kage · **07-11-2016, 02:21 PM**

Most of my RP now is pretty stagnant and relegated to private stuff so my experience is like a year+ old.

In public roleplay, most people were ok with just going with the flow of RP and speaking with Kage. Was he ever outright ignored? Nope. Did I always get substantial long-term roleplay connections? Well I still roleplay some arcs with people from 2 years ago so I'm content with that.

My personal bias? I think most people who are not including Lalafell are doing so because they are looking for an RP partner and do not find that in a Lalafell.

I've seen no more players who want to disrupt players in lalafell players than I have Elezen, Hyur, Roe, etc. Recently, I haven't run into many people looking to disrupt roleplayers either. Do I find some names weird? Yes. But I know they're not roleplaying and are just having fun with the game so I really don't care about a diapered lalafell or Erotic Fanfic (not a Lala!). Did I wonder once whether that would be the case with Baby Hands? I did, until there was roleplay to be had and that thought went away. Nothing else to it but the roleplay.

***Meishali*** · **07-11-2016, 04:58 PM**

I think it's a shame every time people straight up think lalafellin characters are trolls and dismiss them. Whether they end up being Dunesfolk or Plainsfolk, their lore is rich, and just amazing imo.

My lalafell is part of the first characters I made and is as old as my three mains. I have only been RPing him actively in the past months, because I finally found out his whole dynamic. I wanted to make an Ul'dahn black marketeer, and to be honest, what's better for that than a dunesfolk?

People are really not interested in 'non humans/non adults' looking races in most MMOs, because 1) oh, no, romance/cyber isn't an option, 2) they are labeled as trolls or uninteresting. This is apparently a very western mindset, as, according to japanese RPers, Lalafells are more present and taken very seriously in the east.

To OP: keep pushing. We need people to roleplay Roegadyns and Lalafells more often, and this, as much as possible. If you have an idea for any non-hyur, non-miqo'te or non-auri race, by all means, do it! You're only doing a great service to the community. At the end of the day, you will always find people to RP with. It just (sadly) asks for more efforts on your end. :[ It bothers me to say it, but you gotta push until you manage to prove people you're 'legit'. Usually a wiki is enough, to be honest.

Oh, and yeah. People not allowing roleplayers to join a scene because of their chosen races aren't worth RPing with. I have my own bias, but if the RP is good, then it's good. Always give the benefit of the doubt to people and see for yourself, @ people dismissing lalafells by default.

Lutra · **07-11-2016, 05:24 PM**

I have experienced this ...sort of. I think honestly a lot of it has to do with the sexual factor. I'm not saying every roleplayer has sex on the brain, but most RPers are at least OPEN to their characters getting into some sort of romantic entanglement, even if it is not ERPed out in full. And Lalafell are often not even considered an option on an OOC level.

My alt, Trisselle (a Seeker miqo'te), is actually married to a Dunesfolk Lalafell ICly. And when they first got together, I took quite a bit of "abuse" from friends and FC-mates for it. I put it in quotes because it wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. We were treated as a big joke for a while, but no other pairing had been treated in such a way. I felt a little insecure, to be honest. And I wasn't even playing the Lalafell!

But truthfully, there is a lot more to their relationship than just physical stuff (and yes they DO do the deed! /gasp!), and it's been some of the most complex and interesting RP I've had in my time in this game. Even now I never know what they'll do or what crazy path they'll take.

So I guess what I'm saying to all the Lalafell-haters is: don't discount the small folk! Try to get into the mind of an Eorzean, who see Lalafell as completely normal, and let your character react accordingly. The RP might surprise you, in a good way. That's just my two gil! <3

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[Discussion] Going Lalafell, distinct decline in RP?

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