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Edgar · **08-16-2016, 06:45 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:37 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Dunno what it is lately with the healers but goddamn.

I recently had a healer respond to my berserk macro with a macro of their own dedicated to mocking berserk macros.

Is this some sort of holiday I don't know about where all the healers get to be pricks and shirk doing anything associated with healer job roles in this game, DPSing included?

McBeefâ„¢ · **08-16-2016, 06:49 PM**

Sounsy what char do you raid on I wanna creep ur fflogs.

Virella · **08-16-2016, 06:55 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:44 PM)Faye Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 04:43 PM)Virella Wrote: I'm still going to label people to be terrible until I know why. Yeah, if people tell me "sup I got something why I can't play properly" yeah, I ain't going to go "FFS GET BETTER FIX UR SHIT", like man, I got a super shit shoulder, I can't raid due to it. Well serious raid that is.

Although....

On the other hand, I'm not going to expect people to carry my sorry ass either. I'm not such a privileged fuck who expects people to just carry me. No sorry, I'd sooner sit out. I'm not going to be THAT asshat who goes "WELL ITS MY GODDAMN 13 EUROS PER MONTH FUCK YOUUUUU REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" Yeah, I struggle to raid, hell, I struggle to do shit irl due to my shoulder, but I'm sure as hell not going to make random people suffer for my incompetence. If my shoulder hurts too much? Guess what. I ain't going to do content. I will just do something else.

This spoiled mentality of "Eh, I can do all the content without doing my best" is really, really pissing me off. Like I'm legit ashamed when I fuck things up massively in serious content.

Perhaps it might be due to me starting to play online as a young teenager, and the whole MMO culture was very different, but every single time I see people refusing to improve because of muh anxiety? Damn, go play a singleplayer game, don't drag people down with you and abuse it as an excuse not to do shit, you entitled douchebags.

Same goes for roleplay really.

I can agree with this is if someone is causing wipe after wipe in their PUG's. Being dealt a shitty hand isn't an excuse to ruin the game time of strangers. But someone making a 30 minute dungeon take 35 instead 'cause they don't wanna stance-dance because of factors beyond their control... idk, I'm pretty chill, I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think someone should be told "go play a different game/class!" when... they can play their class just fine for the level of content they're doing, they just aren't going/can't go above and beyond with extra assistance outside of their class's main role.

I used to know a 63-year-old grandmother who played a healer here. She had arthritis iirc (which is not just for "old people!") and just had slow reaction times in general due to her age. She was... not a good healer, and messed up a lot and caught flak for it. It made her nervous and she got upset, threatening to unsub and stop playing regularly whenever she got frustrated with her skill healing. Grandma healer ended up having a pretty negative attitude so she never really got her healing up to a decent skill level and I dunno what happened to her 'cause I haven't seen her around in forever, but, the moral of the story is... Healer grannies are cute. We need more of them. We should let them play healers like grannies should. Don't scare away the healer gran-grans. We need them to keep us punk kids in line and make us cookies ok thx.

I dealed with a healer grandma once

Never again

She was the biggest ego tripping dick I've ever seen, couldn't raid for shit, thought she knew it all better due to her age

No, you really don't need more healer grannies, trust me

Faye · **08-16-2016, 07:12 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:55 PM)Virella Wrote: I dealed with a healer grandma once

Never again

She was the biggest ego tripping dick I've ever seen, couldn't raid for shit, thought she knew it all better due to her age

No, you really don't need more healer grannies, trust me

This one was a dick too but a granny gave me a mason jar full of juice today irl for walking her dog so idk I'm willing to give grannies a chance they're cute sometimes

Virella · **08-16-2016, 07:13 PM**

(08-16-2016, 07:12 PM)Faye Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 06:55 PM)Virella Wrote: I dealed with a healer grandma once

Never again

She was the biggest ego tripping dick I've ever seen, couldn't raid for shit, thought she knew it all better due to her age

No, you really don't need more healer grannies, trust me

This one was a dick too but a granny gave me a mason jar full of juice today irl for walking her dog so idk I'm willing to give grannies a chance they're cute sometimes

No you don't want to after seeing

a

homewrecking

grandma

I wish I was kidding. That guild was special.

McBeefâ„¢ · **08-16-2016, 07:15 PM**

(08-16-2016, 07:12 PM)Faye Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 06:55 PM)Virella Wrote: I dealed with a healer grandma once

Never again

She was the biggest ego tripping dick I've ever seen, couldn't raid for shit, thought she knew it all better due to her age

No, you really don't need more healer grannies, trust me

This one was a dick too but a granny gave me a mason jar full of juice today irl for walking her dog so idk I'm willing to give grannies a chance they're cute sometimes

Faye I don't need to hear about you drinking jars of some grandma's juice. This is a family forum.

Kilieit · **08-16-2016, 08:11 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:34 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 03:22 PM)Kilieit Wrote: But that's the hall of the novice. I think we can take it off the table when discussing whether healers should be DPSing in, like, expert roulette or whatever high-level content you like.

Okay, I am confused by this? Could you clarify Kilieit, cuz to me it's reading like:
Novice Dungeons - DPS is good, because Hall of Novice is for lowbie content?
Level 60 Dungeons - DPS is bad, because this isn't endgame?
Endgame Content - DPS is good, because elitist raiders?

And I don't think that's what you're trying to say?

I just mean, like - the advice in Hall of the Novice is intended to get genuinely new players started. I don't think it's intended to be a rulebook for how to play forever.

HotN is just intended to get you through your first ever Sastasha without wiping your group repeatedly, and I was under the impression we were talking about more general roulette situations.

I think it's weird to see people on either side using "even HotN says to DPS!" or "HotN says only to DPS when no one is taking any damage at all!" as points to their side when I don't think HotN advice was ever intended to be used in such a context.

I wasn't trying to make a statement about my opinion on the topic at hand, hehe.

Kage · **08-16-2016, 08:26 PM**

To be fair, i think Hall of Novice was created to address players' concerns about other players being found to be lacking when they meet them in party content.

LiadansWhisper · **08-16-2016, 08:42 PM**

(08-16-2016, 12:57 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Quite literally said nothing about expecting others to play up to your standards. I only said that if you have the know-how, don't be part of the problem by also playing low-effort, even if everyone else in your PUG is.

But now that you mention it, I find it hilarious that the FFXIV community at large considers using 1/3 of your skillset as "Endgame-level" exclusive LOL. Like, WHMs or SCHs haven't had almost all of their DPS abilities by the early lv30s or 40s. Like only endgame level Tanks need to use cooldowns because there are no tank busters in Roulette dungeons?

To characterize Tanking cooldowns as not an actual part of the Tanking role in order to justify the idea that DPS is part of the Healer role is just...

It's disingenuous at best.

LiadansWhisper · **08-16-2016, 08:43 PM**

(08-16-2016, 08:26 PM)Kage Wrote: To be fair, i think Hall of Novice was created to address players' concerns about other players being found to be lacking when they meet them in party content.

I haven't done it yet, and I really should. I'm very curious as to whether it bears any resemblance to Proving Grounds in WoW.

The latter did an absolutely atrocious job of teaching anything to healers. Literally everything you did in Proving Grounds bore no resemblance to how you would heal in a dungeon or raid setting.

LiadansWhisper · **08-16-2016, 08:44 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:55 PM)Virella Wrote: I dealed with a healer grandma once

Never again

She was the biggest ego tripping dick I've ever seen, couldn't raid for shit, thought she knew it all better due to her age

No, you really don't need more healer grannies, trust me

I've seen some awesome healer grannies. And some awesome DPS grannies. And some awesome tanking grannies (and grandpas!).

LiadansWhisper · **08-16-2016, 08:46 PM**

(08-16-2016, 06:45 PM)Edgar Wrote: Is this some sort of holiday I don't know about where all the healers get to be pricks and shirk doing anything associated with healer job roles in this game, DPSing included?

6 seconds in is the most accurate depiction of a healer that I've ever seen.

Kilieit · **08-16-2016, 09:03 PM**

(08-16-2016, 08:26 PM)Kage Wrote: To be fair, i think Hall of Novice was created to address players' concerns about other players being found to be lacking when they meet them in party content.

I found Hall of the Novice trials to be lacking in general (I think it could use reiterations at 30 and/or 50 when you have some more tools in your toolbox - especially as healer where the 15 sync means it can't teach you about AoE heals, regens, refreshes, cleanses, or aggro dumps, because at that level the classes have a few of those things each, and never the same ones, and the trials have to account for any class in the given role)... so maybe my faith in them is a little lower than most people's anyway. xD

LiadansWhisper · **08-16-2016, 09:07 PM**

(08-16-2016, 09:03 PM)Kilieit Wrote: I found Hall of the Novice trials to be lacking in general (I think it could use reiterations at 30 and/or 50 when you have some more tools in your toolbox - especially as healer where the 15 sync means it can't teach you about AoE heals, regens, refreshes, cleanses, or aggro dumps, because at that level the classes have a few of those things each, and never the same ones, and the trials have to account for any class in the given role)... so maybe my faith in them is a little lower than most people's anyway. xD

Rather sad to see this, though I'm not entirely surprised. It's difficult for a scripted encounter to really teach players the nuances of their role.

Kage · **08-16-2016, 09:12 PM**

(08-16-2016, 08:42 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 12:57 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Quite literally said nothing about expecting others to play up to your standards. I only said that if you have the know-how, don't be part of the problem by also playing low-effort, even if everyone else in your PUG is.

But now that you mention it, I find it hilarious that the FFXIV community at large considers using 1/3 of your skillset as "Endgame-level" exclusive LOL. Like, WHMs or SCHs haven't had almost all of their DPS abilities by the early lv30s or 40s. Like only endgame level Tanks need to use cooldowns because there are no tank busters in Roulette dungeons?

To characterize Tanking cooldowns as not an actual part of the Tanking role in order to justify the idea that DPS is part of the Healer role is just...

It's disingenuous at best.

In comparison, I find it fair.

Here's actually being disingenuous. Healers don't need to DPS. Tanks don't need to use defensive cooldowns. Defensive cooldowns are just so tanks don't die in Solo content. If tanks just keep hate on the mobs that's all that matters because all healers need to do is heal them. Nothing hits tanks (who gear correctly) enough to oneshot them if they're pulling groups of mobs one at a time. So if a healer just heals them, tank won't die. Party won't wipe. All good right? It's not like tanks should actually do their best to put a healer at ease too. Maybe tanks don't even need to bother with good positioning for melee, forcing the melee to move closer to the other mobs in the dungeon that are patrolling etc.

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If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time..

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