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***Teadrinker*** · **10-14-2016, 12:49 AM**

In the one scene where Aymeric protected Lucia from the falling pillar on the Steps of Faith.... in that 3 seconds of footage he had more character development than most of the Scions combined.

Valence · **10-14-2016, 04:11 AM**

I think their horrible pacing (which is not new and already stems from 2.0, where you are put to sleep by the story for like 70% of the story until the end) is also due to their inability to put the story actually as a leading factor for development.

I know it's not an easy thing to do, but like in a lot of (especially western) RPGs, the story doesn't dictate the pacing and the world around, but the world and leveldesign dictates the story and thus, constrains it. Working myself in the industry, it's pretty blatant to me that the story writers get two things to work with: the general idea and outline for the expansion universe and concept, and the world builders and gameplay developers also get the same outline.

Then both will work on their thing, and the story writers will then get to work with many different places leveldesigned in a certain way for it to work as a MMO, and they will have to make the story stick and go through a general path making the player visit all those places, allowing him/her to access to all the sidequests around. Every time.

Now try to write a story where you know that the first thing you will have to do is find something to do in Western Coerthas, then fucking Sea of Clouds... I'm sure they could have found more engaging than just helping those two Fortemps heirs, but I really can't help to see it any other way than that.

Tyndles · **10-14-2016, 04:36 AM**

I liked the story, but it got tied up in a neat little bow too early. Â Like it wasn't a masterpiece but I really enjoyed 3.4 a lot, but the fact that it was "hey the Warriors of Darkness are gone and Ishgard is saved and the Scions are all back together again" was blah.

There's going to be at least one more patch, and WTF are we going to do then? Â I mean sure it will be threads into Ala Mhigo but that story isn't going to resolve until the next expansion, so its just going to be a butt ton of cliff hangers til then? Â Boo. Â

I think they should have closed with the Warriors of Darkness, then in 3.5 or whatever the last patch ends up being, reunite Papalymo and Yda with the group, and then have the threads into Ala Mhigo. Â Then at least there would be some story resolution along WITH the cliff hangers. Â As it stands the end of the expansion is going to be very hollow and unfulfilling. Â No resolution, all build up.

***Nero*** · **10-14-2016, 10:05 PM**

(10-14-2016, 04:11 AM)Valence Wrote: Then both will work on their thing, and the story writers will then get to work with many different places leveldesigned in a certain way for it to work as a MMO, and they will have to make the story stick and go through a general path making the player visit all those places, allowing him/her to access to all the sidequests around. Every time.

This is the impression I got as well, and it's a baffling design decision for a game that is ostensibly heavy on the story. I can at least give credit that the story writers are probably forced into a railroad and have to do their best to tie everything together as best as they can. I wish the story was given heavier weight though: I assume that Square wanted 3.0 to end with a bang so someone wrote "KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND" on a whiteboard and everyone applauded and did their best to crowbar in the Knights of the Round as early as possible.

Even so, the development process doesn't particularly excuse the story writers from being what I can only be described as incredibly wasteful with their opportunities.

One huge example of this is the dinner with Aymeric. That entire scene had a uniquely composed setting and was fully voiced with different responses from Aymeric depending on what you choose, and it was also completely worthless because the only thing Aymeric ever said is reiterate the same three things he's been saying ever since 3.1:

1). "We are grateful to the Warrior of Light."
2). "I hope Ishgard can change peacefully."
3). "Ishgard must help Eorzea."

That whole conversation was so laughably shallow, and the worst part is that the only interesting bit is in the end where the WoL is tentatively given an opportunity to define themselves to the characters outside of a nameless boss-killing plot vehicle.

No, Aymeric, I don't want you to talk to me about how Ishgard is undergoing great change (again), nor do I want to hear about how indebted people are to me (again), and no I don't want to hear about how Ishgard must repay the Eorzean Alliance (again).

We have a one-on-one conversation, the WoL and Aymeric at this point are implied to be trusted friends, but since the world offers Aymeric no conflict or real resistance, we hear nothing of it. We don't get to hear Aymeric tentatively relying on the WoL as a confidante and saying that he's unsure about his role as Lord Speaker. We don't get to hear about how Aymeric might possibly like being a politician and a people-pleaser.

We don't hear anything interesting about Aymeric at all, but he's really grateful to us and Ishgard is undergoing great change and will have to help the Alliance.

Anyway, I'm going to stop harping on this subject now, but I earnestly hope Stormblood's writing is better.

Valence · **10-15-2016, 04:00 AM**

Well at least Heavensward's writing was better than A Realm Reborn so... Progression I guess? I hope?

I wish they fleshed out the WoL more. But they probably won't because they probably think that if they start doing so, they will create a character that will maybe not fit to the headcanon/vision some players have of them. They possibly want to give the player full liberty to make up their own vision of their WoL.

Which is a bit baffling since there is literally very little, if nothing to work with to begin with.

Damn, I'm close to go on a rant again against all the bad things with western RPGs... And make no mistake, what differentiates FFXIV from other FF titles is that it works exactly like a western classical RPG (arenas and hubs filled with quests givers).

Verad · **10-16-2016, 04:35 AM**

Why can't this game be a novel?

Kellach Woods · **10-16-2016, 08:26 AM**

(10-14-2016, 04:36 AM)Tyndles Wrote: There's going to be at least one more patch, and WTF are we going to do then? Â I mean sure it will be threads into Ala Mhigo but that story isn't going to resolve until the next expansion, so its just going to be a butt ton of cliff hangers til then? Â Boo.

Threads to Ala Mhigo (probably a confrontation with the Griffon as none know he has the eyes of niddy), going after the giant ass coffin (3rd 24 man), 3rd of the Warring Triad, Conclusion to Hildibrand (with MAYBE a FF9 trial considering the reveals from 3.4's Hildi questline), Conclusion to Scholasticate (aka why haven't we killed every Dzemael we see already?) etc.

There's still plenty to do, the MSQ will definitely point us towards Ala Mhigo too and they have to put the pillars in place for Stormblood.

Valence · **10-16-2016, 12:17 PM**

If they continue following the patterns for 2.0, we could also get an epic drama similar to the end of 2.5, introductory to the next expansion who knows.

***Teadrinker*** · **10-16-2016, 03:08 PM**

(10-16-2016, 04:35 AM)Verad Wrote: Why can't this game be a novel?

DingDingDing.

Can we have accompanying novels pls.

*Hurls Nero at SE*

Seriphyn · **10-16-2016, 03:19 PM**

(10-14-2016, 10:05 PM)Nero Wrote: Good shit

It sounds like you're after a more character-driven story than device-driven, the latter seemingly the case for FFXIV? Because, comparatively, I think the MSQ is an absolute masterpiece insofar as the MMO framework goes. But then, I'm into the BIG THEATRICS rather than the character drama.

Verad · **10-16-2016, 04:34 PM**

(10-16-2016, 03:08 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:
(10-16-2016, 04:35 AM)Verad Wrote: Why can't this game be a novel?

DingDingDing.

Can we have accompanying novels pls.

*Hurls Nero at SE*

A good possible outcome, but given the track record of past MMO novels, I'd rather not take my chances.

Richard Knaak. Jesus.

***Nero*** · **10-16-2016, 04:48 PM**

(10-16-2016, 03:19 PM)Seriphyn Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 10:05 PM)Nero Wrote: Good shit

It sounds like you're after a more character-driven story than device-driven, the latter seemingly the case for FFXIV? Because, comparatively, I think the MSQ is an absolute masterpiece insofar as the MMO framework goes. But then, I'm into the BIG THEATRICS rather than the character drama.

Perhaps part of the reason why I'm yearning for a character-driven story is because I'm not particularly fond of the plot itself.

That said, I agree entirely with Valence's assessment that FFXIV's story is written around the game design, so stuff like my previously huge rant on Thordan's pacing and him being a waste of a character is something I (now) try to be lenient on, because how I see it is the game designers saying "Okay writers, the players need to get to Azys Lla and fight the Knights of the Round. Make it happen" and within that scenario, there is remarkably little room for producing a compelling scenario. Or, "The players are going to fight Nidhogg-Estinien in 3.3, make it so they don't die in 3.0".

Of course, all that is me giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, and choosing to believe that they're limited by the development process and not themselves, so it's entirely possible that I'm wrong.

But there are moments where the writers are given room to tie up the story, and the majority of these moments tend to be character-driven. The scene following Estinien's recovery--where he talks about what it was like being under Nidhogg's influence and how his desire for revenge has been snuffed--that was a good scene. Aymeric's dinner was pretty much a plot device to get the WoL away from the Fortemps house so Alisaie could sneak in with her arrow wound. These elements can pretty much be written off from a design standpoint since the goals are extremely basic ("End the 3.3 story" in Estininien's case, "Get WoL out of manor" in Aymeric's case, etc.)

Where the writers seem to have the most power is in expressing the characters, and where they have the least power is in the greater narrative (because that's driven by the game design), so it's in the characters that I'd like to see them improve.

Caspar · **10-16-2016, 04:55 PM**

It's certainly better than TERA's. Since that's the only comparison I have to go off of, that's as much as I can criticize. When I try to evaluate whether a work does what it sets out to do or not, I try to only compare it to works in a similar medium.Â

That being said, I definitely share the opinion that the Scions are just not very interesting characters, for the most part. Thancred has potential. Urianger has potential. All the Scions could be cool, were they given some time to grow in personality and did not have to share screen time with expac characters. Likewise, the expac characters too have a lot of worth untapped because they needed to shove the main conflict with the Ascians into Heavensward.

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[Discussion] [Spoilers] 3.4 MSQ Discussion Thread

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