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V'aleera · **01-22-2017, 04:37 AM**

(01-22-2017, 02:51 AM)Heidrek Wrote: As an spreadsheet enthusiast, do you enjoy EVE?

With all the tools available, EVE is moreso about networking than spreadsheets these days.

Dis · **01-22-2017, 08:00 AM**

A lot of 'good' games I've played have converted from the Pay to Play to the Free to Play model. Some good examples are RIFT, Lord of the Rings Online, etc. I've seen a number of games and have been in a number of games that have shifted subscription models and I think it's becoming less reflective of the MMO genre itself than it is differing priorities from the fanbase. There's nothing inherently wrong with the F2P model, and I've seen a few games I really enjoy that started out with that model and are still doing moderately well. And then we have some rotten 'Freemium' models, like TOR. That game feels like rubbish without a sub, or an awful large amount of money sunken into it.

I do still play Star Wars The Old Republic, and even (though it wasn't listed in the first post), The Secret World. A lot of games are very 'niche' games which cater to and draw in from a small market. Star Wars fans are more likely to play TOR, and horror genre fans are more likely to play TSW. Tolkien fans will probably end up spending at least some time in LOTRO, and you have a large number of XIV players who were Final Fantasy fans before anything else. And there are only 'some' games that cater to a wide audience without attempting to hit a specific niche besides the broad genre that it belongs to (Rift and WoW being in the fantasy genre, for example).

Players seem to think they want some great "next game", when primarily what seem to want is customization and the freedom to build and create in an almost sandboxy way, at least when it comes to features like housing. Devs seem to think that they want to release the next greatest game, when primarily what they seem to want is to release a game that is cutting edge and really draws in attention at the start, but they often end up falling flat after some initial patches and maybe the first expansion. What ends up happening is that you get several niche games that each fulfill one or two functions that players really want, but end up falling short on other ends. Or you get game devs that are very dedicated to trying to release good content, like the XIV devs, but who are struggling under corporate or system limitations (I'm looking at you, soon to be gone PS3 support).

I don't think any one MMO will hit the right niche in the market, because you either end up catering to too much on one or another end of the spectrum, or the player base consumes all of the content quickly, then moves on. People also seem very reluctant to split their time consistently between games because they have greater obligations, and there's no real point to spending money on a game that you actually won't be able to dedicate time to playing, especially if that game, as all MMO's seem to, have some kind of scaling gear or progression grind.

It's also very hard for any one game to 'take the market' when people are split by their interests. I have friends in TOR who would never play XIV because the genre doesn't interest them, and similarly, friends who would never touch TOR because they prefer fantasy over sci-fi, even though they like Star Wars itself. The MMO market is always going to have a largely divisive split in it, and that's part of the MMO market itself seeming to flounder. You have a continually expanding but ultimately limited cluster of people who have to choose the right game for them based on things like computer specifications, personal interest, friend group location, monetary spending and time budgeting. I feel like no one MMO, regardless of how 'good' it is, is ever going to be able to completely down any other game.

And I can't comment on games that aren't the tradition RPG style MMO, because I haven't really played them, as they're not my preference.

SicketySix · **01-22-2017, 09:57 AM**

My issue with MMO's have absolutely nothing to do with F2P, B2P, whatever. My main issue with pretty much all MMO's in general is, while fun, what's the point?

Most monsters are the same, just visually tweaked a bit, classes are they same, same skills but different names. Same overall concept etc etc etc.

So while I may think that say uhhh, Bland & Soul, or Black Desert is fun, why hash through the same type of game/content when I could just play FFXIV and not have to level all over again?

ExAtomos · **01-22-2017, 10:03 AM**

Another thing too, briefly mentioned, is that nearly every big game is an mmo now: racing games, definitely all the shooting games, sports games, etc. As far as mmorpgs in the traditional sense... I would guess no really big ones. They may have gone the way of turn-based rpgs (still bitter). I would imagine that F2P ones with flashy gatcha stuff will still be churned out by the bucketload. But who knows, maybe there will be a successful game in the future that uses technology and ideas we haven't even seen yet that builds off of the idea of an mmorpg.

LiadansWhisper · **01-22-2017, 05:25 PM**

(01-22-2017, 08:00 AM)Dis Wrote: RIFT

Given the current clusterfuck that is the latest RIFT Expansion, I'mma say that going F2Play hasn't really improved anything. I mean, they started out really, really well, but over time they have eroded more and more of the good things about their model. Currently, the game is more Pay to Win than Free to Play.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **01-22-2017, 05:30 PM**

(01-22-2017, 05:25 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(01-22-2017, 08:00 AM)Dis Wrote: RIFT

Given the current clusterfuck that is the latest RIFT Expansion, I'mma say that going F2Play hasn't really improved anything. Â I mean, they started out really, really well, but over time they have eroded more and more of the good things about their model. Â Currently, the game is more Pay to Win than Free to Play.

That's usually the fate of any F2P game if it has a cash shop. ...or it has to subsist entirely off "useless" glamour items so people can be pretty. ...but if glamour is the endgame...

***Teadrinker*** · **01-22-2017, 05:59 PM**

I hate Trion. Anything they touch turns to shit. Same thing with NCSoft pretty much.

FunFact from an employee: Trion had to fire their pvp balancer because he was weighing it in favor of his favorite class.

Dis · **01-23-2017, 03:13 PM**

(01-22-2017, 05:25 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(01-22-2017, 08:00 AM)Dis Wrote: RIFT

Given the current clusterfuck that is the latest RIFT Expansion, I'mma say that going F2Play hasn't really improved anything. Â I mean, they started out really, really well, but over time they have eroded more and more of the good things about their model. Â Currently, the game is more Pay to Win than Free to Play.

Yeah, I've been out of RIFT for a while now. After the RP community on Faeblight went belly up from one-or-two people basically "taking over", and open world stuff was relegated to Argent Glade in Silverwood or... you know, I can't even remember where people congregated on Defiant Side, I basically left. But at the time, the model wasn't that bad. Initial shift from Pay to Play to Free to Play wasn't bad. It just got worse and worse over time. I've heard the same thing from some of my friends who still play the game. And yeah, Trion is pretty awful. It wasn't as bad a few years ago when I was running RIFT as my main game, but as I understand it, the company has shifted priorities, and, well, let's just say that I don't hear much 'positive' about them anymore.

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[Discussion] Current State of the MMO Market

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes