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Yian Kutku · **07-17-2017, 10:03 AM**

(07-17-2017, 08:49 AM)Gegenji Wrote: On the last boss? I suppose after that would be the best time for it if they didn't immediately gun it to the exit. Or you didn't yourself just to be away from the guy and move on with life. I could see either happening, really.

The WHM rushed straight for the exit, so I didn't even get a chance to go "yo what the hell". I decided to post the story here because I thought the claim that "Healers only heal, and dance the rest of the time" was hyperbole, not an actual thing that happened.

I mean, apart from that, the WHM was a pretty decent Healer when it came to healing. Didn't overheal much, didn't let me get too low, easily kept up with pulls, so on and so forth. I didn't want to get into a whole big argument about whether Healers should DPS in the middle of the dungeon, so I kept quiet.

But that Manderville. I don't know of a more effective way to say "I know I'm wasting your time, and I don't care."

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-17-2017, 10:14 AM**

There used to be an excuse for the healing-only healers because cleric stance had a cooldown and swapping could possibly get the tank killed. (But then, is it really considered -that- much downtime?)

If they have time to go through emotes, they should be DPSing unless they're out of mana. Like, healer DPS was specifically adjusted so that they could have an easier time helping out without the "stress" of cleric stance making it scary.

...I miss my actual damage increase. That 5% buff is completely useless on my crossbar.

Gegenji · **07-17-2017, 10:21 AM**

(07-17-2017, 10:14 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: ...I miss my actual damage increase. That 5% buff is completely useless on my crossbar.

I don't even slot it on my bar. It's like... what's the default set to USE for Healer Role abilities? You have five slots and, like, six good abilities.

Personally, I'm running dangeresque without Esuna (which is only a problem in certain cases, really). So Protect, Largesse, Lucid Dreaming, Eye for an Eye, and Swiftcast. Though, I AM a SCH, so if I couldn't spread Eye, I'd probably swap that for Esuna just for those few situations where I need to remove a Doom or a poison effect or something. But that's six abilities jockeying for a position for doing healer-y things even before I look at improving my damage.

... Like, if they merged Cleric Stance and Largesse into a single ability, that might be nice. But they you'd have to figure out whether you're going to use it for that big heal or to eke out some more damage. And, given our horror stories here... our PuG healers will either use it solely for DPS, just healing so they can go back to dancing that much sooner, or not at all. Sad

Valence · **07-17-2017, 06:20 PM**

(07-17-2017, 08:38 AM)Eliana M Wrote: Anyway, after having to use my veil of saint new version, not once but twice, I finally asked the BRD why he was taking so much damages, him being a range it made no sense to me. His answer ? that he was not a range but a melee -range and he had to do so because of his Knock back.

What did he smoke? Repelling shot doesn't deal any damage anymore...

Gegenji · **07-18-2017, 11:05 PM**

So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-18-2017, 11:16 PM**

(07-18-2017, 11:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

Yian Kutku · **07-19-2017, 03:45 AM**

Just ran a Wanderer's Palace Normal with a Paladin who:

Mass-pulled, and did not use any cooldowns or defensive abilities other than Shield Oath
Killed the critters delaying the Tonberry Stalkers, then lingered around in front of the Tonberry Stalkers as they stabbed him, as though he has no idea what to do when an untargetable enemy starts stabbing you
Used all his cooldowns at once upon aggroing the boss, including Hallowed Ground, Bulwark, Sentinel, and Convalescence at the same time (but curiously not Rampart, which never appeared throughout the dungeon)
Ran around killing the Tonberry adds in the final boss (which give the Tonberry King extra damage for his Everyone's Grudge attack)
Did not use Flash a single time in the entire dungeon, apparently relying wholly on Circle of Scorn for AoE enmity

I stayed on because the two DPS (RDM and MNK) were actually pretty good, doing high damage and staying out of all AoEs.

Still. How.

Gegenji · **07-19-2017, 08:03 AM**

(07-18-2017, 11:16 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(07-18-2017, 11:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

It is dumb and I don't really get why they're doing it.

I mean, isn't the lower overall healing bonus for Diurnal specifically because regen is really good passive healing, and it stacks with other regen? I mean, I'm fairly certain I've had two Medica IIs on me in a double-WHM group. So if you stay in Diurnal with a WHM, I don't think it's nearly as "bad" as staying Nocturnal with a SCH. Only the shields get overwritten... and only if it's a"stronger" shield. If it just doesn't happen to be strong enough... well, you've wasted, what, half of the "healing potential" of that Nocturnal-Aspected Heal or Adlo/Succor?

It's just super counter-productive.

... Also I think Yian ran into the PLD version of the "I don't have Unleash yet!" DRK I mentioned a couple posts back. Laugh

Aaron · **07-19-2017, 09:48 AM**

Had a Healer yesterday in expert constantly running ahead of me (while jumping too) and pulling mobs repeatedly. I let them tank a few seconds thinking they'd get the message but nope, kept rushing ahead and even pulling bosses.

Thankfully, when I said a simple "Calm Down *Healer name*" they stopped early pulling. So I guess it wasn't all bad.

Eliana M'Terra · **07-19-2017, 11:34 AM**

(07-19-2017, 08:03 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(07-18-2017, 11:16 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(07-18-2017, 11:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

It is dumb and I don't really get why they're doing it.

I mean, isn't the lower overall healing bonus for Diurnal specifically because regen is really good passive healing, and it stacks with other regen? I mean, I'm fairly certain I've had two Medica IIs on me in a double-WHM group. So if you stay in Diurnal with a WHM, I don't think it's nearly as "bad" as staying Nocturnal with a SCH. Only the shields get overwritten... and only if it's a"stronger" shield. If it just doesn't happen to be strong enough... well, you've wasted, what, half of the "healing potential" of that Nocturnal-Aspected Heal or Adlo/Succor?

It's just super counter-productive.

... Also I think Yian ran into the PLD version of the "I don't have Unleash yet!" DRK I mentioned a couple posts back.

People tend to generalize too much. There are instances where having both in the same stance can only beneficial. So GENERALLY is better not to have both with the same type of skills but is not a rule of thumb to follow all the time no exceptions, you know, just me though

Cato · **07-19-2017, 06:39 PM**

I'm really, really getting tired of all the bots in PvP...

Meena · **07-19-2017, 07:17 PM**

(07-19-2017, 06:39 PM)Ryuji Wrote: I'm really, really getting tired of all the bots in PvP...

You and me both. Screenshot, report their names. SE bans in waves.

Enla · **07-21-2017, 02:58 AM**

(07-19-2017, 11:34 AM)Eliana MTerra Wrote: People tend to generalize too much. There are instances where having both in the same stance can only beneficial. So GENERALLY is better not to have both with the same type of skills but is not a rule of thumb to follow all the time no exceptions, you know, just me though

Only with Diurnal and WHM. Being in Nocturnal with a SCH is like having two SCH's try to heal with the same faeries in a raid. Their abilities do not stack and in the case of Noct Sect it actively overwrites the SCH's shields. There is no net gain to be had there. It's just two healers fighting and having to watch the party even more closely so when they throw out a shield it doesn't coincide with their partner, resulting in wasted MP. Doable in premades but next to impossible in pug groups. At least with Diurnal your Regen STACKS with that of a WHM so there's no inherent conflict there.

I don't know why so many AST's absolutely refuse to leave Noct while a SCH is in play but it's always annoying to me. Especially since you often come off as the 'bad' one if you try to ask them to switch stances. At least when you're paired with another SCH there's an unspoken understanding that either you trade off Succors/Adlos or you let one person handle it while you focus on other things. Every Noct Sect AST I've been paired against just fights me over who has the bigger shield peen.

Kieron Lohengrin · **07-24-2017, 05:31 AM**

I double pull in experts, and only die if the healer is dpsing instead of healing. If that happens then I single pull for the rest of the run. TBN into quietus into DA DP / DA AD spam is redonk strong when you have six or more mobs.

That being said, dps who don't aoe are worse and somehow even more common. Or dps who don't focus down summoners in kugane. Any self-respecting SAM will always have TP hovering at 100-200 with a torrent of gokens and kyutens.

Leveling roulette is nice and relaxing though. You meet a lot of lv16-35 sprouts who are just thrilled to be running something for the first time and still enthralled by the newness of ARR. Some vets harp on about the overly forgiving baby's first mmo design of xiv but that ensures its staying power. Especially once people get to Heavensward and the feels train kicks into high gear

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-24-2017, 10:18 AM**

(07-24-2017, 05:31 AM)Kieron Lohengrin Wrote: I double pull in experts, and only die if the healer is dpsing instead of healing. If that happens then I single pull for the rest of the run. TBN into quietus into DA DP / DA AD spam is redonk strong when you have six or more mobs.

That being said, dps who don't aoe are worse and somehow even more common. Or dps who don't focus down summoners in kugane. Any self-respecting SAM will always have TP hovering at 100-200 with a torrent of gokens and kyutens.

I haven't actually tried tanking in the experts yet, but part of that is me being afraid the freebie AF3 won't cut it anymore now that people have geared up. I should try to give it a chance...

The bolded part makes me crazy. I've gotten used to having mark macros on all my roles' hotbars so I can mark them if the tank does when I'm healing, and to mark them when I'm the tank. It feels like people have forgotten that most of the summon abilities can be stunned. And if of the not-stunnable variety, I do expect people to focus them down one by one, as per some of the lv70 dungeons.

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