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Symphony · **01-17-2018, 01:29 PM**

There is a similar thread about this subject but it was from half a year ago so I decided to start a new one.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on something I've been struggling with since I started RPing in MMO's.Â I have been roleplaying for many years on different mediums, although it's been quite a while since I've been an active part of any kind of RP due to a lack of time and people to do it with, and it's always been fine and dandy until I started venturing into in-game RP.

I'm the type of MMO player who sees their character as themselves rather than something they control, so when I want to RP in-game I want to immerse myself in the world and the lore and for the most part my character is speaking and acting as I would and with that there is a bit of blur between IC and OOC which I thoroughly enjoy.Â This goes against what has become the norm of RP (at least from my perspective because I seem to be unique in that I have been part of multiple RP's where that type of RP was common in the communities I have been part of) where players are basically authors and the characters they play are completely separate entities from themselves that they develop on paper ahead of time and plan scenes for and have tumblrs for.Â While I don't see anything wrong with this type of RP and practice some of it as it is a basic part of roleplay, I don't see my character as some type of puppet I manipulate since my character is basically me.

So my question is: what is this type of RP called so I can find like minded peopleÂ who would like to do things like quests and dungeons ICly?Â Or am I in the wrong business altogether? ^^;;

Maia · **01-17-2018, 06:02 PM**

I'm not sure there's a universally-understood name for what you're describing, but I think you're engaging in a good first step! I know from experience that it can get very uncomfortable very fast when two people go into RP with drastically different expectations (such as with players who are their characters versus those who consider their characters as separate entities.)

A couple of avenues I might suggest for finding like-minded people are as follows:

- Skim through the Making Connections forums and look for people asking for both IC/OoC romances and things along those lines. I know there were a few scattered in there that I've read during my lurking hereabouts. (Apologies for not being able to provide direct links; I'm currently on mobile.)

- Consider asking around some Discord general chats? There seems to be a recent shift to Discord as far as RP inquiries and planning. Although I know it says you're on Balmung, I hear the Mateus Discord general chat has quite a few RPers, so there may be someone on that server who's RP expectations align with yours. If you find someone there, I think you should be able to make a new character over there for RP purposes during low-population hours (such as very early morning.)

Either way, best of luck in finding what you're looking for!

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **01-17-2018, 06:48 PM**

(01-17-2018, 01:29 PM)Symphony Wrote: I'm the type of MMO player who sees their character as themselves rather than something they control

I don't see my character as some type of puppet I manipulate since my character is basically me.

So my question is: what is this type of RP called so I can find like minded peopleÂ who would like to do things like quests and dungeons ICly?

I've generally seen that referred to as self-insert RP. It can get kinda tricky to interact with people who are more on the in-character/out-of-character side of things, most often due to someone playing a mean/villainous/etc character because if someone's is playing the role of an antagonist, but they're doing so directly to you, the player AND character, it's far too easy for something that wasn't intended to be personal to be taken personally. Especially if you're telling people that your character is you and they should be treated the same.

Granted, even among IC/OOC RPers, there is always the issue of IC/OOC bleed, which is similar to self-inserting in terms of taking things meant only for a character as something meant for the player as well. There have been quite a few heated threads on this topic or because of this topic.

On a side note though, there are IC/OOC RPers who do RP the main scenerio quests, other general quests, and in dungeons. Although I would heavily advise that dungeon RP be limited to 100% premade parties for everyone's enjoyment. RP walking / being an ice-only mage/ etc in a random duty finder group probably would not go over so well. (And hasn't in the past.)

Symphony · **01-17-2018, 08:10 PM**

(01-17-2018, 06:02 PM)Maia Wrote: I'm not sure there's a universally-understood name for what you're describing, but I think you're engaging in a good first step! I know from experience that it can get very uncomfortable very fast when two people go into RP with drastically different expectations (such as with players who are their characters versus those who consider their characters as separate entities.)

A couple of avenues I might suggest for finding like-minded people are as follows:

- Skim through the Making Connections forums and look for people asking for both IC/OoC romances and things along those lines. I know there were a few scattered in there that I've read during my lurking hereabouts. (Apologies for not being able to provide direct links; I'm currently on mobile.)

- Consider asking around some Discord general chats? There seems to be a recent shift to Discord as far as RP inquiries and planning. Although I know it says you're on Balmung, I hear the Mateus Discord general chat has quite a few RPers, so there may be someone on that server who's RP expectations align with yours. If you find someone there, I think you should be able to make a new character over there for RP purposes during low-population hours (such as very early morning.)

Either way, best of luck in finding what you're looking for!

Thank you for the suggestions!Â I'll be sure to take a look. Smile

(01-17-2018, 06:48 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I've generally seen that referred to as self-insert RP. It can get kinda tricky to interact with people who are more on the in-character/out-of-character side of things, most often due to someone playing a mean/villainous/etc character because if someone's is playing the role of an antagonist, but they're doing so directly to you, the player AND character, it's far too easy for something that wasn't intended to be personal to be taken personally. Especially if you're telling people that your character is you and they should be treated the same.

Granted, even among IC/OOC RPers, there is always the issue of IC/OOC bleed, which is similar to self-inserting in terms of taking things meant only for a character as something meant for the player as well. There have been quite a few heated threads on this topic or because of this topic.

On a side note though, there are IC/OOC RPers who do RP the main scenerio quests, other general quests, and in dungeons. Although I would heavily advise that dungeon RP be limited to 100% premade parties for everyone's enjoyment. RP walking / being an ice-only mage/ etc in a random duty finder group probably would not go over so well. (And hasn't in the past.)

Yeah, having a villain character would be a sort of half(?) exception since no one (at least I would hope) would want to actually evil towards someone on purpose.Â And I agree, RPing in a dungeon with a PUG would be disastrous, lol.

Kieron Lohengrin · **01-17-2018, 10:14 PM**

(01-17-2018, 01:29 PM)Symphony Wrote: There is a similar thread about this subject but it was from half a year ago so I decided to start a new one.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on something I've been struggling with since I started RPing in MMO's.Â I have been roleplaying for many years on different mediums, although it's been quite a while since I've been an active part of any kind of RP due to a lack of time and people to do it with, and it's always been fine and dandy until I started venturing into in-game RP.

I'm the type of MMO player who sees their character as themselves rather than something they control, so when I want to RP in-game I want to immerse myself in the world and the lore and for the most part my character is speaking and acting as I would and with that there is a bit of blur between IC and OOC which I thoroughly enjoy.Â This goes against what has become the norm of RP (at least from my perspective because I seem to be unique in that I have been part of multiple RP's where that type of RP was common in the communities I have been part of) where players are basically authors and the characters they play are completely separate entities from themselves that they develop on paper ahead of time and plan scenes for and have tumblrs for.Â While I don't see anything wrong with this type of RP and practice some of it as it is a basic part of roleplay, I don't see my character as some type of puppet I manipulate since my character is basically me.

So my question is: what is this type of RP called so I can find like minded peopleÂ who would like to do things like quests and dungeons ICly?Â Or am I in the wrong business altogether? ^^;;

This is what I do with a few friends. Last year upon returning for Stormblood I DMed an IC dungeon delve campaign for them in Palace of the Dead, all the way up to floor 100. We also did a couple of IC dungeon runs, such as the final battle in Ala Mhigo. Playing a tank makes it easy. We routinely ignore the tumblr cliques, and the game's already-existing canon tools like linkpearls and aetheryte teleportation make IC communication / meetups easy.

Your best bet is to look up FCs with similar themes and check out their guild forums or Discords. Another method is to check the recently updated pages section of the player wiki to see who's active and seeking contacts. The biggest challenge is logistics and getting concurrent timezones - which is when you may wish to consider starting open forum post RP or Skype post RP with others.

Aegir · **01-17-2018, 10:44 PM**

I'm curious how... immersive rpers(?)... handle people who RP bad guys! I RP a lot of bad guys. And idiots. And jerks. So it'd be helpful to know.

Symphony · **01-18-2018, 01:24 PM**

(01-17-2018, 10:14 PM)Kieron Lohengrin Wrote: This is what I do with a few friends. Last year upon returning for Stormblood I DMed an IC dungeon delve campaign for them in Palace of the Dead, all the way up to floor 100. We also did a couple of IC dungeon runs, such as the final battle in Ala Mhigo. Playing a tank makes it easy. We routinely ignore the tumblr cliques, and the game's already-existing canon tools like linkpearls and aetheryte teleportation make IC communication / meetups easy.

Your best bet is to look up FCs with similar themes and check out their guild forums or Discords. Another method is to check the recently updated pages section of the player wiki to see who's active and seeking contacts. The biggest challenge is logistics and getting concurrent timezones - which is when you may wish to consider starting open forum post RP or Skype post RP with others.

I find the tumblr cliques gross myself. Tongue

And yeah, I've been on the lookout for FC's that might be of the same mindset.Â Thanks for the suggestions!

Symphony · **01-18-2018, 01:27 PM**

(01-17-2018, 10:44 PM)Aegir Wrote: I'm curious how... immersive rpers(?)... handle people who RP bad guys! I RP a lot of bad guys. And idiots. And jerks. So it'd be helpful to know.

For me, I assume the more rigid IC/OOC separation unless I know that the player is a jerk too lol.

Neneso Neso · **01-18-2018, 05:00 PM**

TLDR: Just be careful, no one wants to get hurt. Rp is meant to be fun.

As someone who sees my character as a character and not myself, I just wanted to briefly mention it's a great way to explore something you wouldn't normally do. A great example being someone who is afraid of heights. Do I have that fear? No, but I've roleplayed a character with it. It's interesting to see how it's affected her life. It allows me to also learn from them, a barrier between their mistakes and my mistakes.

The one thing about roleplaying yourself is that barrier bleed is a lot harder to avoid. Even if you keep that separation, if your ic self is having a bad day, you might end up having one too. There's also the fact that it is a lot harder to get to know the character for someone like me. If you are your character, where's the line drawn? What if someone else suffers it, and is annoyed with your character? If you're a self insert, doesn't that mean they would also be mad at you? A brief comment like 'man your character really annoys me' can take on a whole different meaning when you are your character.

Then there's the chances missed out to give them backstory. Sure, you probably never had to kill people oocly, but what if your character had to kill someone they loved? How would it affect them? If it's not you, you get that barrier of safety, so that you don't get pulled 'too ic', and get startled when the bubble bursts.

Barrier bleed WILL happen. No one is immune. If your character is having a good day, then you will to! If your character is depressed, it's hard not to feel down yourself, even if it's just because it's not fun to rp them.

Just be careful roleplaying that way.

Symphony · **01-18-2018, 06:32 PM**

(01-18-2018, 05:00 PM)Neneso Neso Wrote: TLDR: Just be careful, no one wants to get hurt. Rp is meant to be fun.

As someone who sees my character as a character and not myself, I just wanted to briefly mention it's a great way to explore something you wouldn't normally do. A great example being someone who is afraid of heights. Do I have that fear? No, but I've roleplayed a character with it. It's interesting to see how it's affected her life. It allows me to also learn from them, a barrier between their mistakes and my mistakes.

The one thing about roleplaying yourself is that barrier bleed is a lot harder to avoid. Even if you keep that separation, if your ic self is having a bad day, you might end up having one too. There's also the fact that it is a lot harder to get to know the character for someone like me. If you are your character, where's the line drawn? What if someone else suffers it, and is annoyed with your character? If you're a self insert, doesn't that mean they would also be mad at you? A brief comment like 'man your character really annoys me' can take on a whole different meaning when you are your character.

Then there's the chances missed out to give them backstory. Sure, you probably never had to kill people oocly, but what if your character had to kill someone they loved? How would it affect them? If it's not you, you get that barrier of safety, so that you don't get pulled 'too ic', and get startled when the bubble bursts.

Barrier bleed WILL happen. No one is immune. If your character is having a good day, then you will to! If your character is depressed, it's hard not to feel down yourself, even if it's just because it's not fun to rp them.

Just be careful roleplaying that way.

For sure.Â I'm not totally against the idea of having characters that are strictly characters and I'm even entertaining the idea of having alts for that exact purpose (if I can ever establish my main character somewhere QQ), plus as an actor I immensely enjoy roles that are very different from myself.

When I say immersive/self insert RP, I don't make my character 100% a mirror image of myself.Â It would defeat the purpose because, like you said, you would miss out on chances for backstory, not to mention it would just be boring.Â I don't live in a world of magic and beastmen in my real life and I have no idea how to use a bow or a sword so I'm already a character being in the game's world.Â I have a backstory for my character that is something I have never experienced but generally my character's personality and behavior reflects my own.

It's true that people can get hurt if they aren't careful.Â Keeping a level head and remembering not to take things too personally are important.

Neneso Neso · **01-20-2018, 11:02 AM**

Agreed

Erah'sae · **01-22-2018, 12:53 PM**

Quote:Symphony wrote stuff in the original post and I fail at quoting...

On Immersive vs Avatar vs Self RP.
Self RP is something I worry about because there's often way too much bleed over.Â People are reacting to an extension of yourself, and it becomes difficult to isolate your real self from the impact of this because the character is mostly you.Â It's a dangerous thing for self-insertion, for these reasons.Â I would say there is a little bit of self in every character because it's impossible not to have that happen, but playing mostly self makes it especially dangerous. (edit: Neneso covered this nicely)

Now, Immersive RP is my bread and butter.Â I love being able to shed myself and immerse myself in the character in the world.Â It's not much different from a mix of improv and method acting.Â Key things I like to do with this is avoid meta/OOC information.Â I want to know what my character knows and very little past that about other characters.Â Ideally, I won't even know the other players OOCly at all.Â That way I'm having my character react to their characters in an organic fashion.Â Â If things go well, things go well, if things go horribly they go horribly.Â These are things that help develop the character and build realism and keep RP dynamic.Â Â There is a bit more self in this, a bit more danger of bleed over (it's unavoidable) then avatar RP as you're blocking out you for the character while playing.Â Â

I'm not sure which of these you're referring to exactly.

It's difficult to find people who RP like either of these as both styles seem to have really fallen out of favor in the last 5-10 years due to a number of factors.Â Â At one point the immersive style RP was the norm on most games I played on.Â This was over a decade ago however, and times have changed.Â Â MMO's have become mainstream, Roleplay isn't as much a 'thing reserved for the geeks and nerds' in societies eyes but socially acceptable.

The change in major styles has also followed certain societal changes that I'm not sure if it's appropriate to get into too much depth here on, but I've seen the more controlled avatar RP pick up as society in general has become more fearful in general then open.Â As the base trust between people has faded, that lack of trust impacts how we play as well.

Erah'sae · **01-22-2018, 01:10 PM**

(01-17-2018, 10:44 PM)Aegir Wrote: I'm curious how... immersive rpers(?)... handle people who RP bad guys! I RP a lot of bad guys. And idiots. And jerks. So it'd be helpful to know.

How immersive RPers handle people who RP bad guys.Â Â
In short, don't handle the player, handle the character.

It really depends on the type of antagonist.Â In all cases I prefer to leave the reactions as IC as possible with little OOC contact (unless situation merits it.)Â I feel you get more 'true' and organic reactions when it's the character reacting to the character without being clouded by foreknowledge or consideration for the person behind the keyboard.Â A character -will- fail more this way, but conflict breeds character development.Â Â

I have one exception to this, is I abjectly avoid RP with 'stupid-evil' characters because it never ends well.Â Â (Stupid evil to means evil without consideration of consequence or feasibility.Â Â The evil for evil's sake types like the "I burn the orphanage in the middle of the city down and I somehow escape notice" situations.)Â I never really RP a guard / authority type PC so it's easy for me to just say 'Leave it to the Yellow Jackets to deal with" and walk away.Â Â If all else fails having your character spontaneously catch fire and run away screaming can get you out of most unsavory RP situations.

I absolutely love a well thought out intelligent-evil antagonist (read: the good guy of their own story) and conflict with them is often a real treat.

Aegir · **01-22-2018, 01:36 PM**

(01-22-2018, 01:10 PM)Erahsae Wrote:
(01-17-2018, 10:44 PM)Aegir Wrote: I'm curious how... immersive rpers(?)... handle people who RP bad guys! I RP a lot of bad guys. And idiots. And jerks. So it'd be helpful to know.

How immersive RPers handle people who RP bad guys.Â Â
In short, don't handle the player, handle the character.

It really depends on the type of antagonist.Â In all cases I prefer to leave the reactions as IC as possible with little OOC contact (unless situation merits it.)Â I feel you get more 'true' and organic reactions when it's the character reacting to the character without being clouded by foreknowledge or consideration for the person behind the keyboard.Â A character -will- fail more this way, but conflict breeds character development.Â Â

I have one exception to this, is I abjectly avoid RP with 'stupid-evil' characters because it never ends well.Â Â (Stupid evil to means evil without consideration of consequence or feasibility.Â Â The evil for evil's sake types like the "I burn the orphanage in the middle of the city down and I somehow escape notice" situations.)Â I never really RP a guard / authority type PC so it's easy for me to just say 'Leave it to the Yellow Jackets to deal with" and walk away.Â Â If all else fails having your character spontaneously catch fire and run away screaming can get you out of most unsavory RP situations.

I absolutely love a well thought out intelligent-evil antagonist (read: the good guy of their own story) and conflict with them is often a real treat.

Yah that makes sense. I don't think I'm an immersive RPer, because I like to have a lot of OOC chat during and outside of RP. It's pretty interesting.

Symphony · **01-22-2018, 08:32 PM**

(01-22-2018, 12:53 PM)Erah Wrote: On Immersive vs Avatar vs Self RP.
Self RP is something I worry about because there's often way too much bleed over.Â People are reacting to an extension of yourself, and it becomes difficult to isolate your real self from the impact of this because the character is mostly you.Â It's a dangerous thing for self-insertion, for these reasons.Â I would say there is a little bit of self in every character because it's impossible not to have that happen, but playing mostly self makes it especially dangerous. Â (edit: Neneso covered this nicely)

Now, Immersive RP is my bread and butter.Â I love being able to shed myself and immerse myself in the character in the world.Â It's not much different from a mix of improv and method acting.Â Key things I like to do with this is avoid meta/OOC information.Â I want to know what my character knows and very little past that about other characters.Â Ideally, I won't even know the other players OOCly at all.Â That way I'm having my character react to their characters in an organic fashion.Â Â If things go well, things go well, if things go horribly they go horribly.Â These are things that help develop the character and build realism and keep RP dynamic.Â Â There is a bit more self in this, a bit more danger of bleed over (it's unavoidable) then avatar RP as you're blocking out you for the character while playing.Â Â

I'm not sure which of these you're referring to exactly.

It's difficult to find people who RP like either of these as both styles seem to have really fallen out of favor in the last 5-10 years due to a number of factors.Â Â At one point the immersive style RP was the norm on most games I played on.Â This was over a decade ago however, and times have changed.Â Â MMO's have become mainstream, Roleplay isn't as much a 'thing reserved for the geeks and nerds' in societies eyes but socially acceptable.

The change in major styles has also followed certain societal changes that I'm not sure if it's appropriate to get into too much depth here on, but I've seen the more controlled avatar RP pick up as society in general has become more fearful in general then open.Â As the base trust between people has faded, that lack of trust impacts how we play as well.

I'm basically referring to what you described as self RP.Â I was asking what the common term for that is but it looks like there is none and everyone calls it something different.

(01-22-2018, 01:36 PM)Aegir Wrote: Yah that makes sense. I don't think I'm an immersive RPer, because I like to have a lot of OOC chat during and outside of RP. It's pretty interesting.

Being immersive doesn't restrict you from chatting OOC.Â It's just that doing too much of it in the middle of the scene breaks the immersion.Â I don't see why it would be a problem outside of RP though?

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