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Black · **07-01-2013, 07:33 PM**

(07-01-2013, 09:32 AM)Eva Wrote: Alex's words - and I cannot agree with them more - are as follows: Â "It's just as easy to be nice as it is to be nasty, and the rewards are far greater."

It is a good sentiment and I would agree, however knowing human nature, my first reaction to it was, "Weeeellll....sometimes."

In my experience, it is easy to launch out criticism and not frame or think about it. Constructive criticism is good, but it also is the way one presents it. Basically, one "keeps one in check" or their speech. You don't want to "hurt" a person.

For some people, it is not so easy; they have to think before they say anything. Let's look at an example: I don't like "Family Guy" and I can pick apart the faults of it all day long if I need to, however, there ARE people who DO like that show and sometimes it is as simple as, "I like it."

Now if they enjoy it, who am I to point and say, "This is wrong!" ? If I stop a moment and see them laugh and smile, why not let them continue? And really, maybe I have a different view on things. The crux is, I am "cursed" with self-realization and while the majority may not have this "curse", it is not out of their reach to comprehend at times. But enlightenment sometimes can't be forced and is best when someone realizes it on their own after a period of reflection.

That requires patience and I would "argue" that that would be the "nice" thing to do...and not everyone is patient or understanding. Again, from my experience with people, I see it is easier to criticize than compliment in most any situation (and heck, read ArmachiA's posts to see an example of this).

Being "nice" takes some extra effort. Any two-year old can throw a tantrum but to think and empathize is a mark of society in general IMHO.

Asyria · **07-01-2013, 07:54 PM**

Toxicity in gaming.

What I expected:

[Image: toxic_crusaders.cover.front.jpg]

But yeah, I never did raids despite all my years of mmo because I was cared of raid drama. My roomie's raiding nights were like a bad drama show with people yelling all the time (he used ventrilo on speakers, no headphones...) and on top of that he kept telling me all about it because he needed to let it out I guess.

So yeah, that scared me too much and I never tried raiding. Tongue

EDIT: Fixed typo
Also I did try once and it was good, no bitching no complaining, even though we wipe. But that was ONE guild in ONE game and only after a LOT of hesitation. Never tried again despite it being a good experience. Didn't want to spoil it with bad ones. Tongue

Y'sehr · **07-01-2013, 10:36 PM**

(07-01-2013, 07:54 PM)Asyria Wrote: Toxicity in gaming.

What I expected:

But yeah, I never did raids despite all my years of mmo because I was cared of raid drama. My roomie's raiding nights were like a bad drama show with people yelling all the time (he used ventrilo on speakers, no headphones...) and on top of that he kept telling me all about it because he needed to let it out I guess.

So yeah, that scared me too much and I never tired raiding.

You are amazing <3

Freyar · **07-01-2013, 11:00 PM**

This kind of behavior is exactly why I don't put myself in a position to play any sort of MOBA in a multiplayer environment. I stick to Demigod at most, and that is a singleplayer affair to me. Overall, IÂ have a very basic rule for my behavior. If I'm getting frustrated to the point where the game isn't fun, I'll stop and do something else.

I used to get frustrated and grumble an awful lot, complain about mechanics, about how they were "stupid" and "unfair" but over time I've gotten to the point (partly due to having seen so many different games and being able to see what works and what doesn't) where I can see merits for design decisions I didn't think about before.

I do think "hyper-competition" is a core component of why we have this kind of behavior. We see people who argue that if they aren't winning, it isn't a good game. I believe a close game is a good game, there have been spectacular losses that were a blast to play through to the end and I just wish more people could see those in the same way.

Hearing and seeing people play League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, DOTA 2, and other hyper-competitive games almost every day, I watch as they get frustrated over time, I can hear them get more and more angry each time they happen to have a loss, or something didn't go right. Rarely do I hear someone owning up to a mistake they made, with over three quarters of the time, problems get blamed on other people.Â I've had some people even threaten each other with violence (to which has resulted in one or two people being thrown out and told to cool off), I've actually witnessed a physical fight as a result of certain people taking these hyper-competitive games too seriously.

Have fun first, win when it works. The drive for "World" and "Server" firsts has only thrust this issue into the MMO spotlight. The constant focus on min-maxing and perfect execution always causing some sort of commotion.

Call of Duty has the same problem with that hyper-competitive streak. People do stupid human things (which is to be expected since they're human), and they explode in frustration since what they expected to happen didn't come to be. They explode over latency problems, they get angry over randomly assigned teammates who may or may not work well with them.Â I constantly try to argue to people who play Call of Duty, or any game that uses matchmaking, that part of their game is indeed chance. Bullet Spread, Latency, Teammates. These are all random elements added to the game.

We had this strange explosion of focus on personal performance, KDR KDR+A being the pedestal that people focused on all the time. What's strange is that people don't actually remember that for every kill you make, that's a death for someone else. 1.0+ is a good ratio for non-objective games, yet some players are SO uptight about getting more than 3.0 in each match (otherwise they're horrible.)

This whole post has kind of gone to a bunch of different topics stemming from this, but they all culminate into what makes it hard for people to actually play in multiplayer games these days.

Koninbeor · **07-05-2013, 01:19 AM**

(07-01-2013, 02:44 AM)Azthran Wrote: As MMO players this is definitely something that most of us have experienced in some for or another. My first experience was after I started playing WoW but unlike other examples given where the player getting blamed was a tank or healer I was a DPS being blamed by the tank. It was my first dungeon run, one of the SM wings, and the tank kept losing threat to the mage then started yelling at me saying it was my job to keep mobs off the mage.

I can say with 100% certainty that you weren't running Scarlet Monastery with me, then. If a DPS class wanted to pull aggro from me on a consistent basis and was making my job overly difficult then I would just sit back, let them die, and then grab aggro back so that the rest of the group wasn't screwed. And if they decided to gripe at me for not drawing aggro away then I'd explain how we'd have to wait all of 30 seconds to replace them while replacing me would take 30 minutes or more. That usually cooled their jets. For some reason, I found asserting myself was much easier as a tank than as a healer.

(07-01-2013, 03:28 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: I'm not like this anymore I promise ><

I've got my eye on you...

(07-01-2013, 11:00 PM)Freyar Wrote: This kind of behavior is exactly why I don't put myself in a position to play any sort of MOBA in a multiplayer environment. I stick to Demigod at most, and that is a singleplayer affair to me. Overall, IÂ have a very basic rule for my behavior. If I'm getting frustrated to the point where the game isn't fun, I'll stop and do something else.

Exactly my philosophy. If the game ceases to be fun then unplug. Life is too short to endure frustrations when you're trying to unwind.

Lren · **07-09-2013, 04:15 PM**

These kinds of attitudes is why I get wary of being placed into groups. It's always nice to bring at least one friend along, least then you can kinda joke or something to help... Brighten the mood.

Sometimes see quite a bit of this when playing fighting games too. The amount of rage messages I've gotten from Street Fighter and the few from Marvel vs Capcom is staggering. The brightside is, you only see those people for a few minutes at most... MOBAs or MMOs, you're generally stuck with the toxic behavior for at least fifteen or more minutes.

Rinh Hallani · **07-11-2013, 07:24 AM**

I saw so much atrocious behaviour in WoW that it put me off the game entirely. It wasn't so bad before LFG; if someone was a raging jerk in a dungeon, you'd notify the rest of the server and they wouldn't get another group again. LFG erased any sense of accountability or community so it became a free for all. The toxicity wasn't usually directed at myself but seeing a new player be abused for being new made me very angry. Everyone starts somewhere.

One of the last dungeons I ran, the druid had just dinged 85. His dps wasn't great but we were doing fine. The tank voted to kick him. I asked why and he said his dps was shit. I reminded him that he'd just dinged and was trying to gear up. The tank said he "wasn't here to help people". I asked him how exactly did he gear up then and left the group.

For those reasons, I was incredibly wary of duty finder but so far my experiences have been quite pleasant. Someone always asks if we've all been here before and if anyone says no, they go through the tactics. We shrugged off any deaths, picked ourselves up and tried again.

I can only hope it stays this way.

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