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Asyria · **07-03-2013, 10:16 PM**

(07-03-2013, 02:24 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 02:05 PM)Merri Wrote: Magitek is crafted through the use of machine and aether, believe it or not. The technology is just machinery, however it's given such strength because of it's power source - pure, concentrated Aether in a liquid form. It's called Ceruleum, and can be obtained either from the ground itself with special mining equipment, or harvested directly from crystal deposits.
.... It's sourcestone!

Further encouraging my heady desire for an ARR/Rift crossover. *is bricked*

Just add Iron Kingdom's mechanika into the mix for epic steampunk techomagic. Tongue

Corin Winterborne · **07-03-2013, 10:26 PM**

I think the big question is "What is magic?"

From my understanding, magic is the manipulation of aether to cause an effect. Â I don't think there's enough information yet to know everything that aether can effect. Â Some examples are: Â your mage classes, aehteryte stones (teleportation), and synthesis.

I also recall that the opening cutscenes mentions you feeling discomfort, after you wake up from your 'dream.' Â The merchant comments that "it's the aether." Â This seems to imply that Eorzea is rich in Aether, where Â other areas of Hydaelyn may not be. This may be why the Garleans have an ineptitude for magic: there's not enough aether for them to effectively manipulate.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-03-2013, 10:26 PM**

(07-03-2013, 10:16 PM)Asyria Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 02:24 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 02:05 PM)Merri Wrote: Magitek is crafted through the use of machine and aether, believe it or not. The technology is just machinery, however it's given such strength because of it's power source - pure, concentrated Aether in a liquid form. It's called Ceruleum, and can be obtained either from the ground itself with special mining equipment, or harvested directly from crystal deposits.
.... It's sourcestone!

Further encouraging my heady desire for an ARR/Rift crossover. *is bricked*
Just add Iron Kingdom's mechanika into the mix for epic steampunk techomagic.

Think I just fainted... Big Grin

Naunet · **07-03-2013, 10:36 PM**

(07-03-2013, 10:26 PM)Nate is Blue Wrote: This seems to imply that Eorzea is rich in Aether, where Â other areas of Hydaelyn may not be. This may be why the Garleans have an ineptitude for magic: there's not enough aether for them to effectively manipulate.

Or Eorzeans have developed some evolutionary aptitude for dealing with an overabundance with aether via channeling it through magic, that Garleans simply haven't had the opportunity to develop due to a lack of environmental stressors.

The way you can get aether sickness makes me wonder if one could develop some kind of aether-gas-weapon and poison a whole bunch of unsuspecting people... XD

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-03-2013, 10:42 PM**

(07-03-2013, 10:36 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 10:26 PM)Nate is Blue Wrote: This seems to imply that Eorzea is rich in Aether, where Â other areas of Hydaelyn may not be. This may be why the Garleans have an ineptitude for magic: there's not enough aether for them to effectively manipulate.
Or Eorzeans have developed some evolutionary aptitude for dealing with an overabundance with aether via channeling it through magic, that Garleans simply haven't had the opportunity to develop due to a lack of environmental stressors.

The way you can get aether sickness makes me wonder if one could develop some kind of aether-gas-weapon and poison a whole bunch of unsuspecting people... XD

Magic power levels to WMD, terror weapons and chemical warfare.

Boy, That escalated quickly.

Naunet · **07-03-2013, 10:47 PM**

(07-03-2013, 10:42 PM)Khaze Wrote: Magic power levels to WMD, terror weapons and chemical warfare.

Boy, That escalated quickly.

You can't deny, that would be pretty badass! Big Grin

FreelanceWizard · **07-03-2013, 11:07 PM**

(07-03-2013, 10:26 PM)Nate is Blue Wrote: I also recall that the opening cutscenes mentions you feeling discomfort, after you wake up from your 'dream.' Â The merchant comments that "it's the aether." Â This seems to imply that Eorzea is rich in Aether, where Â other areas of Hydaelyn may not be. This may be why the Garleans have an ineptitude for magic: there's not enough aether for them to effectively manipulate.

That's an interesting idea (as is Naunet's mirror interpretation).

I'd also suggest that it may be that some people (or all people) react poorly to large amounts of Aether until they adapt to it -- similar to people getting altitude sickness until they adapt. Or, perhaps, it's just a common turn of phrase for sickness, similar to how we say "you'll catch your death from that chill." (Though, personally, I think this last idea is pretty far-fetched. Smile

)

Tivahlt · **07-03-2013, 11:32 PM**

(07-03-2013, 11:07 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I'd also suggest that it may be that some people (or all people) react poorly to large amounts of Aether until they adapt to it -- similar to people getting altitude sickness until they adapt. Or, perhaps, it's just a common turn of phrase for sickness, similar to how we say "you'll catch your death from that chill." (Though, personally, I think this last idea is pretty far-fetched. )

It's mentioned in the beginning of the THM quest line that some people have more natural talent for magic while others have none at all...perhaps the people who get aether sickness (us) are ones that are naturally inclined to the aetheric arts (since all PCs can learn magic, and in the storyline spoilers spoilers spoilers) and therefore have some kind of reaction to larger concentrations of the stuff until they acclimate to the new aether levels, like your altitude sickness example.

On topic, I'd probably also go with your earlier ideas for the most part.

I would imagine that if you know a basic type of magic (fire, healing, water, etc.) then you can do more mundane things with it, but not necessarily different things with it. For instance, someone who knows water can create water to clean themselves off after a bloody battle, but might not be able to separate water from another substance (like poison) as that requires some pretty delicate re-workings of the fabric of time and space. In essence, if it is part of the original spell's function (to create something through magic, be it a bolt of lightning or a blast of fire) then it can theoretically work, but trying to manipulate what is already there would be different. Of course, I always go by the rule of "if it's underpowered and ultimately does not change the game itself, go ahead and do it." So if you were a Thaumaturge that can cast Firaga and just wanted to make the room a few degrees warmer, I'd roll with it.

I also agree that skills from DoW classes aren't inherently magical, but being the special snowflakes that we are we can unconsciously manipulate a small bit of aether to augment our physical skills. Otherwise, I have no idea how I can throw my axe at an enemy and still have it. Tongue

FreelanceWizard · **07-03-2013, 11:44 PM**

(07-03-2013, 11:32 PM)Tivahlt Wrote: Of course, I always go by the rule of "if it's underpowered and ultimately does not change the game itself, go ahead and do it." So if you were a Thaumaturge that can cast Firaga and just wanted to make the room a few degrees warmer, I'd roll with it.

At my tabletop circle (and earlier in CoH), we had a rule we indelicately called the "Cool Shit Clause." It's basically what you just said. Smile

I believe the actual formulation we used was something like, "If all players involved think the effect is cool, doesn't offer a game or story advantage, and plausibly works with what you've already shown you can do, you can do it (for free, if there's normally an associated cost)."

Aldeus · **07-04-2013, 12:04 AM**

A lot of interesting concepts in this thread.Â The idea that the Garleans as a people are generally inept with magic suggests that it is more intuitive than formulaic and that one can't simply learn it as they would some other skill.

FreelanceWizard · **07-04-2013, 12:30 AM**

It could be both, perhaps. We do know that training is needed to safely wield Conjury, for instance, thanks to the Conjurer class quests. We also know from the Thaumaturge class quest line that some people have a lot of Aether and can wield their magic with training, whereas others have lower Aether levels and aren't really suitable for training. Let me toss out a few possibilities on this line of thought, noting that these are all suppositions in the big grey area that is XIV magic theory Smile

:

A character must have some characteristic -- let's call it "the Gift" for the moment -- to use magic, but training is required to achieve safe usage and mastery. Garleans simply don't have that and so can't use magic directly.
A character has to have the right intuitive mindset to grasp magic, and for societal reasons, Garleans rarely reach an age where they can learn magic and still have the mindset for it.
Magic is ultimately an intuitive process, since it involves manipulating something that can't really be directly seen or felt. The "formulas" of spells and the formal training thereof are just codified ways of helping people grasp the underlying concept, in much the same way the scales of Western music are ways to "grasp" the concept of pitch and work it into a sensible form. Other "ways of magic" are theoretically possible. Garleans have no social structure to support a way of magic -- or, alternatively, magitek is their "way of magic" -- and so don't learn it.
A certain degree of intuition is required to "break through" to being able to wield magic, but once achieved, you learn it like any other skill. Garleans socially, or physically, are unable to achieve this "Awakening."

Socially, I think even Garleans who could learn magic in Eorzea wouldn't, given their largely negative opinion of Eorzeans, their culture, and their societies. I expect they'd view magic as inherently inferior to magitek and sadly primitive -- something that no true Garlean would sully himself with.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-04-2013, 09:35 AM**

Soo many awesome and interesting replies guys, damn it. Instead of just answering my question simply you have opened my eyes to all the possibilities. Â Now I just want more Big Grin

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The Power of Magic

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