RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Kylin · **07-04-2013, 09:55 AM**

I agree that there needs to be some etiquette adhered to going forward in order to minimize confrontations/competition. But that's probably something that's going to be difficult to enforce...especially with all of the very passionate people we have in the community.

The original plan was to merely separate the Events section of the forum into two subsections: "Balmung Events" and "Gilgamesh Events." That was really the extent of any plans. And perhaps the same was to be done with the Leaders' Roundtable. Upon further examination, these plans /may/ be altered to better fit the needs of this community. No promises on these plans changing though, but the staff here will discuss and examine the matter thoroughly and figure out the best course of action as soon as possible.

I don't like the idea of possibly removing the "hub" feel to the forums, and I certainly don't think each server needs its own art section, off topic section, ffxiv discussion, etc. On the other side of the coin, we don't want to have to constantly deal with passive-aggressive remarks from either server to the other in certain red zones like the RP discussion forum. Thus, we will examine what's best for the community as a whole and get back to everyone ASAP.

In the meantime, we do ask that everyone remain respectful to one another, as that's always been rule #1 around here.

Tsori · **07-04-2013, 09:58 AM**

To the amyr

I don't actually disagree with you,but I doubt its a case of over sensitivity.

The problem is that the past week has seen people be vocal about things such as splitting the community, not happy due to the server choices, outright dislike that people don't want to goto balmung. The staff have actually handled it somewhat well, but that doesn't mean the community as a whole has accepted it.

The only way to stop it devolving into my server is better than your server bickering is to nip it in the bud, which is what I believe rock was trying to do. Â What may be the odd comment here or there only invites further comments down the road.

Akki-Chan · **07-04-2013, 10:01 AM**

Alright then, let me try to give my piece of oppinion here...

While reading this little "war" going on here and there.. (Not just on this forum, mind you.).. I could not help but being reminded at something.

Balmung is a place for those who made friends a long time ago and want to see a new dawn rising voer their home with new challanges to rise up to, surroudned by companions they made before.

Gilgamesh is a place for those who either want to start again or feel intimidated by those who walked before.

Now, let me quote something...

To all of my children in whom life flows abundant
To all of my children to whom death hath passed his judgment
The soul yearns for honor and the flesh the hereafter
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after

Sounds familiar? It should. We all tried to hold back tears as we listened to these words while we had to watch Bahamut turn our world and lifes to cinders. And yet, we are not done yet.

Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated
Still deaf to our cries lost in hope we lie defeated
Our souls have been torn and our bodies forsaken
Bearing sins of the past for our future is taken

War, born of strife these trials dissuade us not
Words without sound these lies betray our thoughts
Mired by your plague of doubtful and cheap lore

Judgment binds all we hold to a memory of scorn
Tell us why, given life, we are meant to die? Help us in our cry!
Â
Here we are now. Fighting a petty struggle over where to begin a new life. Fighting a silly, pointless fight that brings nothing but strife and anger to everyone of us, if we want to have part in this or not.

Are we really going to let such a silly struggle end in a repetition of history? Are we going to watch Bahamut unleash fire and brimstone on us again, while we fight over which RP community to join? Except that Bahamut will not come to lay waste to the world, but to a community that should stand together as roleplayers, not in the form of a apocalpytic firestorm, but in a gap between what should stand united.

Remember how the song ends?

Yet in one fleeting moment for the new leaf doth grow
In the same fleeting moment thou must live, die and know..

We all must make a decision where we want to make a stand. Should we think of our brothers and sisters on a different server as enemies? As deserters who do not stand by our side in times of war?

No. They are not gone, they merely fight the just war against griefers and rp-trolls on a different front.

We are roleplayers. We should know better then that.

Spiritual Machine · **07-04-2013, 10:19 AM**

I've only just arrived in this community (I registered right after that lockout when people were voting for the secondary server) so maybe I don't have a lot of context. However, when I saw this thread I had to go back through those other two threads to see if I missed some kind of fighting/insult/undue criticism toward the Gilgamesh server.

Now, I've only been here a few days and already this seems like a rather nice, friendly, tolerant community, regardless of server choice. While some people do seem disappointed that others are splitting off to join Gilgamesh and dividing the community somewhat, I haven't seen anyone get terribly upset or disrespectful about it yet. Not enough to warrant what amounts to a public scolding (which is what it looks like from an outsider's perspective).

See, I would figure that Balmung roleplayers AND Gilgamesh roleplayers would be allowed to post their opinions in this forum, as it is a general RP discussion subforum and not server-specific.

If there was any undue "disrespect," like with whoever sent Rock Sandbourne that PM, I think that it was probably unintentional. For instance, the opinion that Balmung will generally have more activity than Gilgamesh, at least for the time being is... well, probably not inaccurate. I don't think that any disrespect was intended there either.

However, the imagery of extending an "olive branch of peace" implies that some sort of war is going on.

I haven't seen anyone not following "The Golden Rule," and I've seen just as many people talking up their servers on both sides. If this thread were "addressed to all" and calling for respectful discourse on both sides, then why is the content of the original post aimed at Balmung roleplayers showing Gilgamesh roleplayers more respect? The title seems misleading.

Therefore, I feel like this thread might actually be contributing to an environment of rivalry. Even though it calls for coexistence, it feels a bit accusatory in nature.

I'm still trying to decide which server I would prefer to dedicate my time to. I don't know anybody around here just yet, so really it might just come down to whichever server seems more inviting. I think if either server's proponents turn server choice into some kind of rivalry or war, I and probably others will most likely just pick the server that's less unfriendly about it, or whichever community is bigger (just so that we're less likely to run into unfriendly, bitter people).

Kossori · **07-04-2013, 10:45 AM**

From the start I've noticed an uncomfortable passive-aggressive entity on the forum trying to push me away from my server selection which I felt was completely unnecessary.

I have less than a dozen posts on the forums and it feels I've gotten at least just as many responses reminding/telling me that Balmung is the primary server and would be better suited for my roleplay desires.Â

I wholeheartedly agree with what Rock has pointed out. Respect the fact that some players would prefer to play on a Non-Legacy server with a Roleplay community trying to grow to be comparable to what Balmung has at the moment. Respect and Support the cause. â™¥

Asyria · **07-04-2013, 11:11 AM**

I agree too!

Though I do believe having separate subforums for both servers is important.
Not to further split us up, but simply to make it easier to look for server-specific threads!

Also, while this thread came mostly to defend Gilgamesh, please keep in mind that Balmung also had to deal with a fair share of aggressivity, so please EVERYONE keep it in mind to respect each other.

It goes both ways.

balmungilgamesh forever!

Eva · **07-04-2013, 11:22 AM**

(07-04-2013, 08:32 AM)Tsori Wrote: If we stopped using terms such as "minority" and "smaller server", which alot of you do in circumstances where its not needed, as you say eva your opinions have been known so why bother even putting in the line about small player counts in your reply when it added nothing to the conversation? It was based on assumption... an assumption no one has the facts to backup until launch. Now this isn't some attack at you, far from it, you just happened to bring an example to the thread for me.

First, the line about the smaller pool of overall RPers on Gilgamesh was relevent to MrHeat's query. It wasn't like I was willfully targeting a Gilgamesh thread and taunting or anything like that - which is feeling to me what is being implied. I invite you to re-read posts #20, #21, and #22 on the thread itself to read over this within the scope of context as it applies.

Moreover, there's no assumption here - at least not for my part. People have stated in no uncertain terms upon which server they'll be playing. Look at the polls. This is fact. The assumptions I see being made are by the OP in that people in support of Balmung are somehow berating those who've opted for Gilgamesh. I would be interested to see the specific examples that prompted this thread's creation, since it appears to be more than just mine. I'm fairly certain in each and every case there was no intent to "lord our superior population size" over the smaller community, as is being suggested.

(07-04-2013, 04:45 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: Its not needed and honestly it comes off as a bit rude and yes passive aggressive, regardless of whether or not it is fact, or whether or not it is gift wrapped in "I really would love to rp with you guys".

Frankly I find this a bit offensive. "Gift wrapped" to me implies that these sentiments aren't genuine. I enjoy RP. And I enjoy RPing with a variety of people. That even a small subset of these people will be unavailable to me is an unfortunate thing. I'm sorry if you assumed I was being insincere or using that as some sort of excuse. I wasn't.

The problem here, as I see it, is not with the way thoughts and opinions and ideas are being broadcast but rather with how they are being received by those who are choosing to play on Gilgamesh. Until I see references to specific posts that clearly display the sort of disrespect and passive-aggressiveness that the OP mentions, I'm left to wonder at what the true purpose of this thread actually is.

These are my thoughts on this matter and I see no reason to post anything further in this thread because I don't see any references to specific posts that display any of the perceived disrespect that the OP mentions. I see statements of fact used appropriately and a subset of the community finding convoluted reason to take offense to it.

I do find it a little alarming that a thread like this has been made so soon after this agreed-upon division and I will continue to wonder if this really was the right thing for the RPC. I hope that I am wrong.

Good luck on Gilgamesh.

Nox · **07-04-2013, 11:49 AM**

Originally, I intended to not post in this thread to avoid kicking the bee hive a few more times, though, after thinking about it some (and icing rude dudes in Farcry 3), I decided to write up a post to try to wrap my brain around what might have been the origin of this thread. I could be wrong, but I think I'm at least hitting proximate to the bullseye.Â

Nox Wrote:I'm gonna have to stick to Balmung, but that's because that's the server the Linkshell I'm in is on (as well as one I'll be joining in the future). That aside, I like the rp activity of Balmung and, especially for me, rping is what's going to keep the game from going dry for me. All of the events SE are supposed to run will help, but I know I'll find myself logging back on again and again because I want to rp with people I'll consider friends.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndÂ

(07-03-2013, 11:21 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Of course I'll be sticking with Balmung. Besides the fact that my legacy characters are there, it really doesn't make sense to me to split up an already-small RP community.Â

If there are players who only care about gameplay first and really have issues with legacy servers, sure, they can go to Gilgamesh, but they relinquish their right to complain about a lack of RP activity when they do so.

Both of these posts are out of the Balmung or Gilgamesh poll page in the RP Discussion board. I chose these two posts because of what Rock posted a few posts later...

(07-03-2013, 11:57 PM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 11:51 PM)Asyria Wrote: I'll just point out that both Balmung and Gilgamesh are supposed to be pointed out as most likely to have a high population of RPers, as far as we know.
Saying that one is going to be better than the other is just not right, as both should be promoted.
It's not a contest, just a question.
Honestly thank you for mentioning this

Alright, now I'm sure neither of us (and I know I didn't) mean any ill intent towards anyone who wanted to play on Gilgamesh. In my post, I remarked about rp activityÂ on Balmung being a pull for me. As of right now, the majority of this very site is on Balmung, so it's pretty safe to say that the rp activity is greater. I'm sorry if you take offense to that. I would never try to directly dissuade someone from joining Gilgamesh or Balmung. If someone asks my opinion, I will give them my opinion. And before someone starts accusing me of being a separatist or something foolish like that, I don't care at all about servers.

I firmly believe that Eva has the right idea about this. Sure, there are some people who are being rude about the whole server thing, but I believe the problem stems from the receivers. Until I'm proven otherwise, that's what I have to stick with. It irks me that this even needed to go on for as long as it should, and if this continues, I might have to put up my FFXIV Rping dreams before they even start. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen because I do love the game and look forward to rping with everyone. I wish Gilgamesh the best luck.

Kassandra Dawn · **07-04-2013, 12:07 PM**

Can we please just stop this. Every thread about these topics devolves into arguments where there really doesn't need to be one.
Just stop, be pleasant, and be polite.

Kyatai · **07-04-2013, 12:12 PM**

Wow...
I, too, am admittedly new here... but other than people passionately supporting their server choice on the Server Poll thread (which seems entirely acceptable to me)... I have also not seen what I've perceived to be negative or condescending comments directed to the folks that want to roll Gilgamesh.

Maybe I'm just oblivious?
Or maybe they are mentioned in threads I have yet to read? I dunno...

Personally, yes, I plan to roll on Balamung. But that doesn't mean I think that those that chose to roll on Gilgamesh are making a bad decision or are stupid or whatever whatever. I am =sad= that the RP community will be physically split this way, and therefore prevent me from RPing with the great folks that will make Gilgamesh awesome- but that is it.
My hope is that this site could be a ===ROLEPLAYER=== supported site. Regardless of where your characters 'live'. That we all support eachother for being RPers and our desire to make great stories and our respective servers incredible.
I see no reason to segregate eachother into separate "camps" when speaking of RP and RP topics in general.
I see no reason why players on Gilga can't RP via forum with players on Balamung either. I see no reason why we can't still be on the same 'team' despite being in different playing fields.

We are all Roleplayers. We love to create and make stories. We are passionate about our craft, dedicated to our art, and excited to share it with eachother- right?
I know I'm still going to be keeping an eye on events and RP that I see mentioned here that occur on Gilgamesh- despite being on Balamung. I want to support my brothers/sisters 'in arms'.
And... I see no reason why I can't comment on a Gilgamesh forum if I would like. I have no interest (and see no point) in 'putting down' anyone that chose Gilga, nor being passive-aggressive. Honestly, its your money, your RP preference, your choice. I have a member of my own LS that has already mentioned preferring to roll on the non-Legacy server. Do I hope she changes her mind? Yes... b/c I want to RP with her.. and I want to RP with the folks I'm meeting here that will be on Balamung. But do I think ill of her? Not at all. She'll make her decision and I'll be happy for her- either way.

As mentioned before by a prior poster, this is not a competition (or shouldnt' be). This is:
Balamung = THE chosen Legacy RP server
Gilgamesh = THE chosen non-Legacy RP server
That's it.
Period.
Same=same IMHO as far as 'importance' goes.

Yes, this site is Balamung focused- or has been in the past because most of the members that created it were Legacy from Balamung. Makes sense.
But the vote for Gilgamesh -JUST- happened so the site is now evolving as the Mods make room for and bring Gilgamesh into focus (as Kylin, et al said they would) as the main non-Legacy RP server.

I have full faith in the Mods to make the needed adjustments to be fair to all: Legacy and non-Legacy server alike.

But... in the end, yes: Respect eachother. Our true "enemies" are not fellow RPers- but the griefers and jerks that make our enjoyment of the game difficult.

Heart

Corin Winterborne · **07-04-2013, 02:14 PM**

I want you guys to think about this from the legacy members point of view for a moment.

You have a character you built since the dawn of the game. You've built a community of dedicated role-players on this server.

Now, SquareEnix closes down the game, because, frankly, it mechanically sucked. Â It completely rebuilt the game. Â It has a lot of buzz and new players coming into the game. Â But then, SquareEnix decided to institute a "legacy" system to reward the players for their dedication to the original game. Â They also listened to the new players, who feel intimidated by the experienced players. Â They want a "fresh start."

So, a group of players wants to have a RP community on a non-legacy server so they can have this fresh start. Â But by doing that, they have to split the community into two factions, albeit unintended. Â The legacy members have no choice in this matter without losing their characters and hard work. Â Their characters are stuck on Balmung for at least 6 months, even if they wanted to leave. Â

So is splitting and diluting the community worth it for these players "fresh start?" Â I really don't think it is. Â The role-playing community may seem large, and can support more then one server, but I really don't think it is. Â There are so many benefits to having us all under one roof, and only selfish reasons to support a "fresh start" for the other players.

To respond specifically to the OP's request to stifle the debate about the splitting of the community, I'd have to wholeheartedly say no. Â I haven't seen any evidence of uncivil discourse or disrespect. Â We should be free to express our opinions (respectfully and civilly) that splitting the community is a bad idea. Â I think it's understandable that some members are upset about this idea. Â Unwittingly or not, people will be poaching members for the Gilgamesh community.

Also, I'm not a legacy member. Â I have a level 3 thaumaturge I briefly played when the game came out. Â I will be starting out fresh on Balmung. Â I'll have a great community to help me grow as a character and as a player. Â I won't have to deal with low-supply, high demand prices on the new server.

You're free to play on Gilgamesh. Â But I don't have to respect your choice, and I'm free to disagree with it, and be vocal with my disapproval of the community split. But I won't be uncivil or discourteous with you. Â I won't try to stifle debate, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same. Â That is how I want to be treated.

Asyria · **07-04-2013, 02:21 PM**

Nate, you just indirectly called people rolling on Gilgamesh selfish in one paragraph and said you're not seeing any disrespect in the next one...

I agree with most of the essence of your post but the OP never asked to stifle anything, he asked for respect. Something we all need to be careful about when discussing anything we have strong opinions about.

Of course there was never any direct name-calling, but even indirect offenses are, well, offensive.

Anyways, I'm not here to point finger, but this was just an easy example of how easy it is to offend when we're not careful. And that's all that's being asked here, I believe.

I also believe that you do in fact have to respect people's choices.

Merri · **07-04-2013, 02:27 PM**

(07-04-2013, 10:01 AM)Akki-Chan Wrote: Balmung is a place for those who made friends a long time ago and want to see a new dawn rising voer their home with new challanges to rise up to, surroudned by companions they made before.

Personally, I don't necessarily think this is entirely fair. Now, I'm on the fence of encouraging everyone to go to whichever server they want. Everyone is entitled to make their own decision, and our community should support that.

I see this a lot on these forums, though, and it is rather upsetting. People assuming and confirming that Balmung players more or less are only interested in themselves, and the connections they made during 1.0. It's kind of unfair to lump everyone on Balmung into that, when honestly it couldn't be further from the truth. It's when this rumor gets spoken over and over again that more and more people take it to heart.

I mean, I'll use my linkshell for example. We've spent the past two weekends trying to get everyone, all roleplayers together for these events. New and old alike. I constantly see people from Balmung reaching a helping hand out to new players in order to help them get their feet and catch up. I know myself and countless others have already pledged to donate what we can to new players in terms of gear. Donate our time to assist in leveling and dungeons. Most linkshells are accepting these new players with open arms, and have programs in place to help them and get them involved.

To say that we're all just worried about ourselves and our own friends is a bit insulting. That can very well be a source of animosity.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have Balmung people who don't necessarily want the community to split. It's understandable. We've struggled in the past to keep our community together through lulls in subscription back when XIV wasn't doing so well, so we're used to fighting to keep everything together and moving forward. Naturally, that's going to spill over a bit into this situation.

However, I don't agree with the people who talk down on those who choose to go to another server. Quite frankly, people are free to do as they will, and I stand firmly in believing this site needs to facilitate RP in FFXIV as a whole, not just on Balmung.

Tsori · **07-04-2013, 02:39 PM**

(07-04-2013, 11:22 AM)Eva Wrote:
(07-04-2013, 08:32 AM)Tsori Wrote: If we stopped using terms such as "minority" and "smaller server", which alot of you do in circumstances where its not needed, as you say eva your opinions have been known so why bother even putting in the line about small player counts in your reply when it added nothing to the conversation? It was based on assumption... an assumption no one has the facts to backup until launch. Now this isn't some attack at you, far from it, you just happened to bring an example to the thread for me.

First, the line about the smaller pool of overall RPers on Gilgamesh was relevent to MrHeat's query. Â It wasn't like I was willfully targeting a Gilgamesh thread and taunting or anything like that - which is feeling to me what is being implied. Â I invite you to re-read posts #20, #21, and #22 on the thread itself to read over this within the scope of context as it applies.

Moreover, there's no assumption here - at least not for my part. Â People have stated in no uncertain terms upon which server they'll be playing. Â Look at the polls. Â This is fact. Â The assumptions I see being made are by the OP in that people in support of Balmung are somehow berating those who've opted for Gilgamesh. Â I would be interested to see the specific examples that prompted this thread's creation, since it appears to be more than just mine. Â I'm fairly certain in each and every case there was no intent to "lord our superior population size" over the smaller community, as is being suggested.

I think you've gotten me wrong here. I said originally I wasn't targeting you but rather using your post as an example since it had been brought up in the thread. I certainly do not believe anyone is lording over anyone else.

My point was, and remains, that since we did an official vote... Both servers should be seen as equal and comments about the size of the community on either server should neither be used as a positive or negative.

However the poll (on what people are choosing to play on, not the server vote poll) wasn't by the majority of numbers on these forums but rather the vocal few. The numbers as can be seen in the registration. Statistics show a bulge in new guys since ARR testing began. Additionally that doesn't include those who want a fresh start. My point was rather that while you old legacy players may believe you hold the majority of numbers here that isn't the case, there is more "new" people off the back of 2.0 as such.. You can't assume that the majority of people on here are going to balmung just because ye ole legacy players voted in a poll that everyone else didn't. It is a assumption as you don't have clear evidence of every members choice.

CallmeYahweh · **07-04-2013, 02:40 PM**

(07-04-2013, 02:14 PM)Nate is Blue Wrote: You're free to play on Gilgamesh. Â But I don't have to respect your choice, and I'm free to disagree with it, and be vocal with my disapproval of the community split. But I won't be uncivil or discourteous with you. Â I won't try to stifle debate, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same. Â That is how I want to be treated.

I think respect is due regardless of which side anyone is on in this debate, regardless of server choice. Yes, this is a small community, and yes, it will be even smaller when members migrate over to Gilgamesh. I don't see how this hurts anyone at all, however. No, long standing members of the RPC won't get to roleplay with Gilgamesh's population outside of Skype or the forums, but honestly, with so many people around, what are the odds of people actually roleplaying with everyone anyway?

Disagreement and debate is, imo, healthy and part of a fully functioning community. Without people having opinions this would be a pretty boring place. But I'm not sure debating a choice that was made already is going to do any good other than stir up feelings. Especially on a topic as heated as this one.

So, I echo what others have said before me: just treat each other decently.

I've avoided this topic because I am a new member and honestly, it doesn't personally concern me. But I thought what the hell, might as well say my piece. So there it is.

As a sidenote: Rock, you seem to have a solid head on your shoulders and I respect what you're doing to help establish Gilgamesh as a roleplaying server. Diggin' it, man.

And to the RPC in general: I personally think what Kylin and the moderator staff has done to support the members who wish to start on a new server is awesome. This is a personal website as far as I'm aware and thus, it doesn't have to do anything. So kudos to you folks.

I may be new but this is a damn good community and I'm happy to be here.

Some respect please, this is addressed to all

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