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Naunet · **07-28-2013, 12:36 AM**

(07-28-2013, 12:01 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Sorry for going off topic with that, but since the question was asked about griefers I felt that cautionary tale needed to be told. Though then again a group of 10 or 12 people on the beta forums does not make up the majority of the FF Community.

I've been trolled repeatedly the beta forums just for mentioning RP no matter how off-handedly. I don't know what it is about Final Fantasy people and their hate towards roleplayers - you'd think RPG fans would be more amenable to such a thing, but... It's my understanding XI had a horrible reception to RPers as well.

Luckily I'm more than capable of taking lumps. Wink

C'io Behkt · **07-28-2013, 12:49 AM**

You guys got busy, hehe.

I think the crux of your discussion is discretion and common sense, which is why I always preface my crashing in with "if my character would do it."

If someone is in a tavern and talking loudly about something interesting, I'll join the discussion; it's something I've done in real life in cafe's, actually. One time, an interviewer was discussing educational theory and practice with some young interviewees in the couch area around me. As a teacher, I was very interested, waited for the interview portion to be finished, and asked if I could join the open discussion that happened afterwards. I made some very valuable contacts and broadened my understanding of a few theories that day, so it's something I don't regret doing.

However, if someone is in a house, on the second floor, and emoting that they are cooking dinner, I'm not going to barge in from the street and say, "Give me food." Or, if I had a character that would do that, since the second floor and inside of a house is pretty much private space, I'd ask, "Would you mind a vagrant knocking at your door to ask for food?" Same for if I found a small group of people I didn't know deep in the Shroud; however, if the group is one I know ICly, I'm going to stumble in and say, "Whoa! Hey! What're you doing out here?" I may not necessarily stay, but I'll at least do a second of small talk if it's someone I know.

But yeah, that's it. Common sense. If the area being RP'd in is also an obviously public place from the IC perspective, like a street or a tavern, crash the party. If it's on the road, crash it. If it's deep in a cave, in the second storey of a house, or somewhere -weird-, take a second to listen in and consider whether inserting yourself is the best course of action.

Knowing when to crash and when not to crash is a judgment RPers develop over time, but only when they allow themselves the courage to disbelieve the myth of "nobody should ever crash ever." It can seem intimidating to start, but even if you make a mistake and enter a scene you probably shouldn't have, a good RPer will have the grace to recognize that and try help you develop your senses instead of thinking bad of you and yelling.

To me, that's the divide between good RPers and bad RPers -- acceptance and openness on an OOC level, the real test of which comes when people make honest mistakes or are trying to learn.

FreelanceWizard · **07-28-2013, 02:51 AM**

(07-28-2013, 12:36 AM)Naunet Wrote: I've been trolled repeatedly the beta forums just for mentioning RP no matter how off-handedly. I don't know what it is about Final Fantasy people and their hate towards roleplayers - you'd think RPG fans would be more amenable to such a thing, but... It's my understanding XI had a horrible reception to RPers as well.

I get the feeling that the pay to play element will be a sufficient barrier to entry to squelch the worst of the griefers, and Balmung nicely has an additional barrier to entry that should keep them even more tamped down. (Also, knowing that certain popular Internet forums won't be on Balmung helps, too.) That said, you never can get away from them... and I agree that simply ignoring them and going on with your business is the best solution.

Ildur · **07-28-2013, 12:23 PM**

Quote:Now as far as them being in TERA well honestly I've always tried to avoid most F2p mmos for rp.

Griefing has been happening in TERA since way before it went F2P. And on the designated roleplay server. You can block them in-game to avoid reading their text and emotes (incidentally, in ARR's last beta emotes did not get blocked. Hope they fix that.), but there are things the game will still show you. Like their placement. Which will be right on top of you, dancing. At that point, it becomes a battle of patience: yours against the griefer's. Luckily, griefers are creatures that are on it for the immediate gratification of annoying others, so chances are they won't stick long enough to deplete your patience reserves.

Anyway! Back to the RP-crashing thing. I once witnessed two people roleplaying in /say while in a plaza. Talking inconsequential stuff about some monsters. Someone was lingering nearby and decided to talk with them. He was immediately scolded OOCly for approaching them. The person in question was a bit confused because, he argued, they were interacting in the open and in the /say public chat. He was scolded again because he had interrupted them without invitation. So, I guess this means you should ask for permission so that you can avoid that kind of people.
It's still good manners, though. A good way to introduce yourself OOCly as a polite person.

Gideon Aryeh · **07-28-2013, 12:53 PM**

(07-28-2013, 12:23 PM)Ildur Wrote:
Quote:Now as far as them being in TERA well honestly I've always tried to avoid most F2p mmos for rp.

Griefing has been happening in TERA since way before it went F2P. And on the designated roleplay server. You can block them in-game to avoid reading their text and emotes (incidentally, in ARR's last beta emotes did not get blocked. Hope they fix that.), but there are things the game will still show you. Like their placement. Which will be right on top of you, dancing. At that point, it becomes a battle of patience: yours against the griefer's. Luckily, griefers are creatures that are on it for the immediate gratification of annoying others, so chances are they won't stick long enough to deplete your patience reserves.

Anyway! Back to the RP-crashing thing. I once witnessed two people roleplaying in /say while in a plaza. Talking inconsequential stuff about some monsters. Someone was lingering nearby and decided to talk with them. He was immediately scolded OOCly for approaching them. The person in question was a bit confused because, he argued, they were interacting in the open and in the /say public chat. He was scolded again because he had interrupted them without invitation. So, I guess this means you should ask for permission stioonto that you can avoid that kind of people.
It's still good manners, though. A good way to introduce yourself OOCly as a polite person.

I see that situation as proof of the private group publically doing rp kindly letting the new person know icly that they want to be left alone or at least send a tell. The fact that they scolded him oocly right out in the open would immediately put them on my rp blacklist. Its disgusting behavior and quite childish. Even if he was wrong which he was not you don't do that out in the open. Just yuck man, yuck. I'm sorry its just not somebody's job to guess.

FreelanceWizard · **07-28-2013, 01:03 PM**

(07-28-2013, 12:23 PM)Ildur Wrote: Anyway! Back to the RP-crashing thing. I once witnessed two people roleplaying in /say while in a plaza. Talking inconsequential stuff about some monsters. Someone was lingering nearby and decided to talk with them. He was immediately scolded OOCly for approaching them. The person in question was a bit confused because, he argued, they were interacting in the open and in the /say public chat. He was scolded again because he had interrupted them without invitation. So, I guess this means you should ask for permission so that you can avoid that kind of people.

See, I view this differently. I think those kind of people should know from the outset that the community doesn't tolerate that behavior and that it's not the norm. When we don't speak out against that behavior, at least some people will take their bad experience with some jerk who can't grasp the IC/OOC line and the whole concept of ICA=ICC and assume it applies to the rest of the community. Then, we all look like cliquish, insular pricks.

But hey, like I said, if you want to introduce yourself OOC, go right on ahead. Smile

There just should never be an expectation that an introduction is polite or required before engaging in public RP with someone who's already doing it, since when you RP openly, the ICC is that other people might interact with you. You're being impolite (among other things) if you're not open to that. If you don't want that possibility, go somewhere private.

Ildur · **07-28-2013, 01:17 PM**

I agree with that. If you roleplay in the 'open', so to speak, then you are hanging a big glowing 'feel free to join in!' sign for all to see. You don't get to complain if people then intrude in your interaction.

Still, I've seen it happen, so I know such people will exist. Asking for permission is a win-win in any case: if they are open, they will quickly reply ''Sure! Get on board!'' and you'll jump immediately ot IC mode; if they are not, they will tell you so and you can continue without experiencing a bad time.

Amiabelle · **07-28-2013, 01:31 PM**

For me (and of course, I can only speak for myself), having to ask permission, or being asked permission, is sort of a buzzkill.Â I try to roll with whatever is presented.Â Having to start out with OOC permissions would break the rhythm of the scene.Â In my opinion, if it's being done in public, across /say, it's pretty much fair game.

If I'm not sure whether my character would be welcome in a scene, perhaps I might emote around the players in question.

/em strains to hear what X and Y are saying.

/em notices that Y looks upset.

Â

Or, perhaps my character might mumble to herself, loud enough for them to hear.

/em mutters under her breath

/say Oh dear, that Roe looks upset.Â Oh!Â Did I say that out loud?"

Then, it's up to the other players to either ignore my character (at which point she might /say Oh, I guess they want to be left alone) or draw her further into the scene.

In that same manner, I'd like to think if I were in a scene and someone started emoting nearby, I'd try to react and incorporate them in somehow.

All that being said, I might shoot the other player(s) an OOC /tell during incorporation if clarifications are needed.Â Otherwise, just roll with it and see where it goes.

C'io Behkt · **07-28-2013, 01:48 PM**

(07-28-2013, 01:31 PM)Amiabelle Wrote: If I'm not sure whether my character would be welcome in a scene, perhaps I might emote around the players in question.

/em strains to hear what X and Y are saying.

/em notices that Y looks upset.
Â

Or, perhaps my character might mumble to herself, loud enough for them to hear.

/em mutters under her breath

/say Oh dear, that Roe looks upset.Â Oh!Â Did I say that out loud?"

Then, it's up to the other players to either ignore my character (at which point she might /say Oh, I guess they want to be left alone) or draw her further into the scene.

In that same manner, I'd like to think if I were in a scene and someone started emoting nearby, I'd try to react and incorporate them in somehow.

My only issue with some of your examples is that they are internal and nothing my character can really react to, so even if I see those emotes, there's not much I can really do. On the other hand, if you shuffle closer to the conversation to hear better or perform some physical action, it's easier on me to respond to your eavesdropping. The other two examples are better for this because something external occurs, although the muttering one would also still be a challenge. At least in my opinion, I appreciate more obvious interjections (hopefully directed at my character) that'll allow me to incorporate you into the scene better.

The example I always go back to was back in WoW when all these blood elves would start weeping at the fountain! All they would do was weep at the fountain! After the first couple of times, we ran out of ways to react to the fountain weepers. They eventually became part of the regular landscape, which made them angry because the rest of us had stopped reacting to them. They thought we were ignoring them, but in reality there was... nothing more we could do that hadn't already been done. Now, had they instead launched themselves at us and wept into our shirts, no matter how common an occurrence that may have been, we'd be forced to deal with it every time because the fountain weepers would have then been interacting with us directly!

So what I'm saying is that giving the other player something they can directly react to is very, very important. And, in my case, highly appreciated!

Amiabelle · **07-28-2013, 01:55 PM**

C'io, you're absolutely correct.Â I was trying to come up with something on the fly and my examples should have been more "observable" or "actiony" (for lack of a better word).Â It's been a while since I was involved in hands-on RP and I'm a bit rusty.Â Sorry and thanks for the comments!

C'io Behkt · **07-28-2013, 02:01 PM**

Hehe, no problem! It's hard to come up with examples in a vacuum, so I understand that. You did bring up the good method of using emotes to test the water, and it gave me a chance to bring up the issue of making sure people direct their emotes outwardly. That's been a problem for me for years, and you've helped me express it, so thank you for both the emote method and allowing me the opportunity to highlight another issue, Smile

.

Ashren Dotharl · **07-28-2013, 02:13 PM**

One thing I always keep in mind is that I've already encountered a lot of people who are new to the community, and even quite a few who were new to RP as well, so for people to have an elitist attitude where RP should be insular and invitation only it creates a bad impression of us as a whole. I mean how would you feel if I walked into the middle of the Adventurer's Guild while you were sitting and having a chat and just flew into a fit of rage and flipped a table, and then if you tried to react to that I told you it was a private RP and you couldn't react to it?

I understand this is a pretty extreme example, but it's kind of how I feel when I come across people roleplaying out in the open who act like no one else around them exists and they're off in their own little world that's invite only. If your character spouts some obscenity about Miqo'te am I supposed to ask permission to tell your character off for being a bigot? Sure, that might be polite, bu it shouldn't be expected. It doesn't flow properly in my opinion and as I said in one of my previous posts in this thread people will feel deterred from RPing with people they don't know if they're expected to ask for permission. While not all, many Roleplayers tend to be introverted when it comes to interacting with people they don't know, especially OOC. Being able to simply slide into a scene without ever breaking character allows most people to stay in a comfort zone that makes it easier to get involved even if you don't know the people you're joining.

Naunet · **07-28-2013, 02:35 PM**

(07-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I mean how would you feel if I walked into the middle of the Adventurer's Guild while you were sitting and having a chat and just flew into a fit of rage and flipped a table, and then if you tried to react to that I told you it was a private RP and you couldn't react to it?

Haha, I don't know about anyone else, but if I were doing something like that (and I totally have!), I'd be there looking for RP, trying to force people to start something! xD

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Why I love it when other RPers crash my scene

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes