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Myxie Tryxle · **08-06-2013, 07:25 PM**

(08-06-2013, 07:12 PM)Reppu Wrote: Balmung -will- have a smaller population, I think?

Even if Balmung's server population is smaller, it may still have the larger number of roleplayers. If there's an even split in terms of numbers of roleplayers, if you consider from a point of view of concentration, Balmung is likely to have a higher percentage of roleplayers. I expect that will facilitate finding roleplay and reduce griefing.

Vlll · **08-06-2013, 07:36 PM**

(08-06-2013, 07:22 PM)Rue Wrote: The level difference don't really bother me to much even, I know I will catch up to them eventually.

I was scared of this and the gil already in the hands of people, but thinking about it many people will have to level other classes anyway and, worst case scenario, there's the Duty Finder to advance through content. We could also gather people starting fresh and do the content together. Possibilities are endless, so I don't really feel bad anymore about starting from scratch.

Just wanted to agree with you, in case someone still had doubts about it.

LandStander · **08-06-2013, 07:56 PM**

(08-06-2013, 07:12 PM)Reppu Wrote: Balmung -will- have a smaller population, I think?

This is actually an interesting question and I am pretty sure Gilgamesh will have a higher population because of all the big servers that are going there, the Redditors probably outnumber the entire RPC, haha. But there will still be a higher RP ratio there.

On another note, when I was transferring my character from Masamune to Balmung (just to have the character as an alt as I liked the way they looked) the server transfer application indicated that the server population was Very High. I am not sure if this just means that they were only taking in a certain amount of character transfer to leave some open room for new players or what. But seeing as the game is relaunched and lots of people will be coming back to check out the game or play it, I would not be worried much about this.

Isilme · **08-06-2013, 08:04 PM**

I usually try to avoid getting involved in these threads... not because I don't have an opinion, or out of contempt, but most of the time (MOST... sometime my Trolly urges overwhelm... aheheh lockedthread) I just don't want to inflame a situation, or drag on an argument or whatever. But, I feel like I wanna comment here.

I'm not gonna bother covering economy or endgame or whatever. People have hashed that out pretty well. No, I'm gonna go the old curmudgeon roleplayer route, and tell a story, and talk about how I feel about all this.

To start with... I regret the Gilgamesh/Balmung split. I don't hold a grudge against Gilgamesh players, or refute any of their reasons, because they're wholly valid. But I regret it. I'm sad that so many of you I will never get to meet in character. I'm sad that your ideas and adventures will be happening off over there, in some parallel world, separate from ours. Sure I could make an alt, but that would just cut me off from my friends here, and the story I already have here. So, Gilgamesh players, I selfishly regret the loss of your stories and your selves, and what you could have added to what is already here. I am sad to see you go.

My first experience with this sort of thing was back in FFXI. There was no RP server back then, official or unofficial, and rp was basically little pockets across various servers. We were on Sylph, which had a decent rp community, but it had declined in recent years.

Well, at one point, some of my friends in the RP community decided to leave for Asura. They all had various reasons, but they were galvanized together by one person, who would become the RPLS leader on Asura when they moved. A significant chunk of the rp community on Sylph up and left, all at once.

Sylph rp continued, but many plotlines ground to a halt. We had come up with an rp explanation of them leaving, but there was still a huge hole. RP declined, and due to my own stupidity I got sucked into a pile of ugly drama. So I decided to leave as well, to join my friends on Asura. I left behind a number of friends too, and... it hurt. Because there was really no way to be with them both like I once was. But the embarrassment of the drama, and the encouragement of those on Asura had me make the jump.

It was good for a while, until our LS leader on Asura suffered a huge real life issue, and essentially stopped playing. RP simply STOPPED at that point. Asura had great endgame, but... I was suddenly an RPer without a community. I eventually packed up, and went back to Sylph.

Sylph was not much better. So many rpers leaving for Asura had really ripped the guts out of the community, and while I was away, it had slowly bled to death, people leaving and no new blood returning. We didn't have an RPC back then, and the forums we used to use to recruit and guide new rpers to us had turned nasty and trollish.

So, I stumped along for a while. Most rpers gave up, went on to focus on endgame, or move to a new game. I followed as best I could, but... in a lot of cases I simply couldn't follow them where they went. I would log into the game, and spend hours on meaningless tasks... grinding jobs or crafts in some sort of vain hope that people would start to return, that there would be a shout for a new rpls in Jeuno, or that a friend would drag me aside to tell me about a new rp community. I checked forums and looked around, but... there didn't seem to be much, and I have trouble making new connections, and certainly it's difficult to remake ones that deep and profound. Eventually, regretfully, I left FFXI. The magic it once had was dead, and while it was still a huge, beautiful world full of memories for me... I knew I was never going to make memories like that there again.

FFXIV was what reunited so many of us, and thanks to Kylin and his RPC, we started off on a good footing. We picked a server, and by and large rpers went there.

The effect was so different from Sylph! There were so many rpers, they would just rp out in the open, in /say... random people would join in. The game had precious little context in those days, so we gave it our own, and as broken as the game was, that experience was incredible. The occasional troll would show up... and be laughed off the server, because we knew, for once, we were not a mocked and marginalized minority.

It didn't stay that way forever, of course. People left the game because they had better things to do that fight with an unfinished product, other players came in, and we ended up the minority again... but we were always accepted. There was a kind of peace between rpers and non-rpers. There was still rp in the open, and though our numbers fell, it never felt like it was dying like it did on Sylph.

I left my first RPLS... I floated, I had trouble fitting in as I do... but it didn't feel as lonely as it did in FFXI. There were always rpers around the corner, always a friend logging in to talk to. There was a larger community surrounding the linkshells, and even as individual linkshells failed, the community remained.

I don't think this would have happened if the community wasn't so large and concentrated. If we had been spread out like in FFXI, I'm sure the initial population die-off would have killed us. But the community in FFXIV felt strong. It felt like... it would outlast me in the game. And indeed it outlasted the game. Seeing something wither and die is never a good experience. I watched an endgame LS I helped build, a couple of roleplay linkshells, and roleplay itself on my server in FFXI, and in the end, I was still left there with nothing but emptiness. And there are only so many times you can rebuild it from the dirt.

This is why... I wish there wasn't this need to split. Servers are big places, and you don't have to roleplay with someone you don't want to. Yes, we will always be a contentious lot, and conflict with each other, but in the end, we have more in common with each other than we ever will with the 4channers or Endgamers. I wish we could just pick an end of the server, but stay together, so that in three months, or two years, or however long it takes for all this Legacy nonsense to become meaningless, we'll still have each other.

But the reality is, it's there. We're split, and we're weakened, so I WILL say this: Balmung or Gilgamesh, stay together. Even if you don't like an RPer, add them to your friends list. You don't have to talk to them, but if times get dark, you will need each other. Don't abandon the RPC. Gilgamesh is going to be a smaller community, and it will be under siege, and if you let what split us apart split it further, rp on that server will not survive. I don't want anyone else going through what I felt, so if you all must leave for Gilgamesh, the last thing I want for you is to fail.

And... don't forget this place. Share your stories now and then. And maybe, someday, we can figure out a way to put all this back together.

Sorry for rambling.

TL;DR Izzy is being sappy and pointless.

Nnejo · **08-06-2013, 08:11 PM**

(08-06-2013, 04:38 PM)undefined Wrote: ~Gilgamesh~

And now, we bring out the bat.

Gilgamesh's roleplaying flaws are the concentrated percentage of roleplayers will (likely?) be significantly lower than Balmung, to the point that 'open world' RP may very well be a dead dream. This is not to suggest that Reddit (who are only guilty of being silly, not really toxic) will 'troll' people out, and the unfounded '4chan is going to come to Gilgamesh!' rumors, have anything to do with this.

It's simply a fact there are no lacking number of groups vying to 'claim' Gilgamesh. There will be a 'war', and it's hard to say if it will end peacefully, or settle into a friendly stability. Ultimately, Gilgamesh's biggest flaw in a roleplaying point of view is that roleplaying will be a lot more difficult in a public manner. And roleplaying kept behind the veil, is a bad habit roleplayers desperately need to break from.

Gilgamesh's mechanical flaws are mostly focused on the population; Server lockouts need to be considered, and 'fierce competition' to the point of toxic levels is common on the bigger MMO servers. Beyond this, you can't really 'guess' too many mechanical problems for Gilgamesh. If there is one to keep note of, the diverse population will be a bit more dangerous for roleplaying companies with raiding pursuits. You'll likely have to comb your recruits a bit more to ensure you won't have a toxic mishap.

In the end, Gilgamesh offers opportunity, but less stability?

Just before the whole "4 chan is coming to Gilgamesh" bit, previous statements about how populated the Gilgamesh server would be may have been valid. But due to the rumors and speculation I suspect we will have a much smaller band of roleplayers on the server now. Now if the rumors are true then I say the question to ask yourself would be, "Will I allow it to bother me and ruin my good fun?" I believe that no matter your answer the sad fact of the matter is that trolls exist everywhere. And whether it be the 4chan community or another group, it is bound to and will happen on any server.

Those that I have met here that are choosing to make Gilgamesh their home will simply have zero tolerance for the trolls. I think that if everyone that goes to that server takes up such a policy it will send a clear message. And while it wont rid the community of them it will definitely make it a little more difficult for them day to day.

Valid points were definitely made here, thats for sure. I find myself in agreement with others about trying out the different servers for yourself. Because at the end of the day, it ultimately depends on where you and your friends feel comfortable.

~Ciao

ArmachiA · **08-06-2013, 08:12 PM**

(08-06-2013, 07:56 PM)LandStander Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 07:12 PM)Reppu Wrote: Balmung -will- have a smaller population, I think?

This is actually an interesting question and I am pretty sure Gilgamesh will have a higher population because of all the big servers that are going there, the Redditors probably outnumber the entire RPC, haha. But there will still be a higher RP ratio there.

On another note, when I was transferring my character from Masamune to Balmung (just to have the character as an alt as I liked the way they looked) the server transfer application indicated that the server population was Very High. I am not sure if this just means that they were only taking in a certain amount of character transfer to leave some open room for new players or what. But seeing as the game is relaunched and lots of people will be coming back to check out the game or play it, I would not be worried much about this.

XIVpads has Balmung listed as the server with the most characters registered (6000+), so Balmung is considered one of the most populated, if not the most populated, server right now.

Aysun · **08-06-2013, 08:17 PM**

(08-06-2013, 08:12 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: XIVpads has Balmung listed as the server with the most characters registered (6000+), so Balmung is considered one of the most populated, if not the most populated, server right now.

The most recent email I have from SE on server status had Balmung listed as "relatively crowded" however there were other servers that were literally locked down so we're not that bad. Smile

The most important thing about Balmung's population is the sheer number of RPers that make up the overall population.

Vlll · **08-06-2013, 08:30 PM**

I hope Balmung doesn't get locked up. I want to join there and don't even have a 1.0 character, so it would suck to wait.

Nel Celestine · **08-06-2013, 08:33 PM**

If there is a wait, it would range from an hour to a couple days at most.

Kyatai · **08-06-2013, 08:47 PM**

+1 Izzy

I agree. No matter where you/we choose to go- we need to stick together in spirit here. I absolutely -detest- the server fights. I don't want to see/hear of animosities forming over this when we should be sticking together as RPers.
For those going to Gilga- it's gonna be hard. Know that, accept that, etc. But also do NOT alienate from those going to Bal. And vice versa... Bal folks need to (continue) to be awesome and accepting... and support those that are enduring crap on Gilga.
(don't want to see "see? shoulda come to Balmung" stuff... really...)

EITHER choice you make will be a good one- as long as you make that choice for YOU and YOUR group in mind.

Yeah, sucks to 'waste time' in Ph4/HS on a server only to find out you prefer the OTHER server's community more... but better to decide then and make course corrections than later and hate yourself for it.
Chocobo

Vee · **08-06-2013, 09:15 PM**

There will be lots of great people on both servers. Being someone from Gilgamesh that's heard a lot about the grief made over "reddit, 4channers", etc, I feel that this hasn't hindered us from going to Gilgamesh in the slightest. Sure, a couple members have felt antsy or like maybe it would be best to go to a new server, but at this point a lot of us are pretty relaxed about going to Gilgamesh.

No matter which way you look at it, there will be trolls on any server. It's how you deal with it and compose yourself afterwards that counts. Luckily there's a /ignore feature, and maybe even report though I'm not sure on that one for sure. Other than that 4chan and Reddit people are not all going to play on one server, just because one person from the community has a lot of friends going there and advertised that people should go there. When you come down to it it's a pay to play game and people will play on the servers where their friends play.

Also remember there's going to be all different kinds of housing, and that the world is big enough for everybody so don't let it discourage you from one place or another, as I said, there's going to be all sorts of great people on both servers.

Fiona Swift · **08-06-2013, 10:05 PM**

I am actually a fan of smaller population servers especially since it is now standard (and is included in FF14 2.0) cross-server queuing. Just because your server has a smaller population doesn't make the queue times go through the roof. I've always found servers that are crowded, even over-crowded to be a mess on many levels.

Questing turns into a messy "tag the mob first" kind of thing where you're rushing to get a fresh spawn mob because 10 other people are grinding that spot; Economies are often blown out of proportion and towns are super over-crowded. The only thing I see Gilgamesh has against it (in my book) is that right now based on polls it is basically going to be Full or near full right out of the gate + is bringing a pretty strong "hardcore" group with it that might spark elitism. On the flip side, Balmung might have a smaller than average population, and thus the server might sometimes feel a bit barren in spots... But here's the catch...

It doesn't matter who is going where. In the end we will all end up in a Free Company that matches out needs, and be a part of 1 or many linkshells which meet our needs. So even if 4chan and reddit bring mass trolls with them to gilgamesh just avoid their linkshell Smile

I'm not sure how Linkshells worked in 1.0 or 2.0 (have not joined one yet) but perhaps there could be some kind of master linkshell that RP'ers on Gilgamesh and Balmung could use. In LoTRO my server had a special channel they advertised on the main forums for people to join and communicate. I'd disable general chat and use this channel instead and you end up in this really nice community of say 100-150 people you talk to on a daily basis. It would be nice to see a linkshell like that, all RP'ers can join it and from there you trickle down into your own linkshells and free companies.

Basically... we create our own General Chat.

As for which server to call home.... call them both home. Pros and Cons to both, but each server has one thing in common; People in which you can share stories and adventures with and hopefully make some in-game friendships with.

Yeldir Melfusor · **08-07-2013, 01:14 AM**

(08-06-2013, 06:22 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: ...

I can't say how this will play out when the game goes live. Â Maybe the trolls will get tired, but only if absolutely no one feeds them, which is unlikely once Gilgamesh becomes an open community rather than a beta. Â Some people just can't resist the bait. Â There's lots of optimism floating around that it won't be an issue or that they'll even be able to reform the griefers and bring them into the fold. Â I even saw someone say they'll produce a hybrid RP, calling it "RP for bros." Personally, I think that sounds terrible, as I'm not going to compromise my RP to accommodate someone who actively despises my hobby.

Hey, go.Â Great post, great thread.Â As the fellow who coined that unfortunate term, I should like to clarify what I meant by it; a lot of the communities people are worried about(Reddit, for example) are in truth extremely diverse within themselves.Â Reddit actually has a subreddit for FF14 rp, which is gradually drawing genuine interest from their own member base.

So, when I say, RP for bros, I mean a light, entry level atmosphere that is spirited, good humored, nigh impossible to offend, and welcomes pretty much anybody who wants to participate, even if they type like dis dood and lol.Â This doesn't mean people have to dumb down their writing, or invite anyone to their character's personal storyline, but it does mean that our public community events need to be really, really public.Â We need to find ways of bringing these people to them that aren't related to trolling opportunities.Â Rock's beach party is one such example of a situation in which I think everybody and their brother should be accepted, and tolerated, even if they want to emote spam.Â If they see us having fun, and laughing trouble off, I mean, really having a good time, trolling included, they're going to see us as ballsy, and they're going to look at roleplayers in a new way.

And to be totally honest, I think that's the only way the Gilgamesh community can survive - by having a friendlier, more accessible face than ever before.Â By appearing the complete opposite of the isolationist stereotype that drives people to troll roleplayers.Â Maybe a discussion on the motives why people love to troll roleplayers deserves its own thread, as it's going to be the first and most important issue we'll have to tackle on Gilgamesh.Â I'll think about it.

Ashren Dotharl · **08-07-2013, 01:32 AM**

(08-07-2013, 01:14 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 06:22 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: ...

I can't say how this will play out when the game goes live. Â Maybe the trolls will get tired, but only if absolutely no one feeds them, which is unlikely once Gilgamesh becomes an open community rather than a beta. Â Some people just can't resist the bait. Â There's lots of optimism floating around that it won't be an issue or that they'll even be able to reform the griefers and bring them into the fold. Â I even saw someone say they'll produce a hybrid RP, calling it "RP for bros." Personally, I think that sounds terrible, as I'm not going to compromise my RP to accommodate someone who actively despises my hobby.
Hey, go.Â Great post, great thread.Â As the fellow who coined that unfortunate term, I should like to clarify what I meant by it; a lot of the communities people are worried about(Reddit, for example) are in truth extremely diverse within themselves.Â Reddit actually has a subreddit for FF14 rp, which is gradually drawing genuine interest from their own member base.

So, when I say, RP for bros, I mean a light, entry level atmosphere that is spirited, good humored, nigh impossible to offend, and welcomes pretty much anybody who wants to participate, even if they type like dis dood and lol.Â This doesn't mean people have to dumb down their writing, or invite anyone to their character's personal storyline, but it does mean that our public community events need to be really, really public.Â We need to find ways of bringing these people to them that aren't related to trolling opportunities.Â Rock's beach party is one such example of a situation in which I think everybody and their brother should be accepted, and tolerated, even if they want to emote spam.Â If they see us having fun, and laughing trouble off, I mean, really having a good time, trolling included, they're going to see us as ballsy, and they're going to look at roleplayers in a new way.

And to be totally honest, I think that's the only way the Gilgamesh community can survive - by having a friendlier, more accessible face than ever before.Â By appearing the complete opposite of the isolationist stereotype that drives people to troll roleplayers.Â Maybe a discussion on the motives why people love to troll roleplayers deserves its own thread, as it's going to be the first and most important issue we'll have to tackle on Gilgamesh.Â I'll think about it.

Yeldir... this just isn't going to happen. I'm sorry man, you seem like you have some great intentions, but you're not going to come in and show tolerance and what not and somehow manage to reform the trolls and make them like you. You kind of remind me of one of those overly optimistic types who go into a really bad neighborhood thinking they can change it, reform it, and make it safe for people. Then they find your body in a ditch somewhere a few weeks later. I totally agree that you'll need to ensure that the people going to Gilgamesh are incredibly tolerant and can persevere in the face of trolling, but you're fooling yourself if you think it'll ever stop just because you throw out a few "LOLz" when someone comes in and starts /dancing and casting Blizzard 2 over and over and over again for the next hour right on top of you.

For those saying that trolling happens on any server, you're right. But just the same, I can go into any body of water and be attacked by a shark... but I'm much more likely to be attacked by a shark if I cover myself in fish guts, dive into shark infested water, and start flailing around wildly to get their attention. What I'm saying is Balmung WILL have trolls, as will every server, but our server doesn't have numerous communities joining it that have a public distaste for us.

More on topic however, I'm going to basically say that if you're unsure of what server you want to join then pretty much just pick whichever one has a cooler name. In a few months the FC and LS groups will have settled in on either server, everyone who is here right now will be level 50 on at least one class, they'll all be doing end game content, and while their might be a noticeable difference in the consistency of RP, the RP itself will most likely be pretty much the same. All of this fuss will have been entirely pointless because both servers will be exactly the same.

Selsix · **08-07-2013, 01:39 AM**

I honestly think this dead horse topic just needs to die.

Some people just DON'T want to play on Legacy realms, we have our own reasons regardless of how stupid they sound to you. No amount of convincing or logic is going to change that.

Fact of the matter is? Everyone needs to accept both servers as RP entities or this argument will never die. Ever.

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