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Felix Sideris · **08-08-2013, 05:19 PM**

So I thought about this idea when I saw some cards sitting on a table in game on the ARR beta 3.

How would one RP a fortune teller/seer?

I mean you could do the whole cliche vague descriptions and predictions, but to -really- role play a good fortune teller, that people would enjoy coming to/paying ICly/etc.

There was a person on WoW who was a fortune teller/psychic OOCly who also role played as a seer ICly and would actually give decently accurate readings/descriptions for your character.

It was pretty interesting, although I take that stuff with a grain of salt and I'm not super into that whole thing but I think it would be neat to see. I'd do it myself as a side thing my character does just for fun if I knew how I could do it well enough.Â

So.. Any ideas? Some of you are probably a lot more educated than I am with this.

Magellan · **08-08-2013, 05:24 PM**

I just asked my friend this question today, about one of my characters I was considering giving this gift to xD. I eagerly await people's replies...

Adelpha · **08-08-2013, 05:42 PM**

Probably depends a lot on whether you want your character to have legitimate supernatural foresight, or just be a traditional cold-reader.

If the former, it could lead to very interesting RP if you do some research ahead of time to get familiar with the character that you'd be reading. You'd be unable to make a reading about that character's private thoughts unless that player was willing to OOCly give you some info to go on, but then that makes it feel a lot less exciting when someone receives a good reading. I'd be a little curious about whether such a thing is justifiable from a lore perspective (especially what potential cans of worms someone with future sight could open up), but there's so much supernatural stuff in the game's story nowadays that you might be able to get away with it as long as you don't use those powers to metagame.

If the latter, it could also be interesting, but I'd personally find it draining to play a charlatan for a long period of time.Â Tongue

FreelanceWizard · **08-08-2013, 05:43 PM**

You've got two options for this, the way I see it.

Option one is to do the whole thing narratively. Talk to the person OOCly and determine what they want their character to hear, and what you might be able to divine with your powers (or lack thereof). Then, you can RP out the scene. A less scripted approach to this is to mention OOCly that your character is a seer, and if they want to toss anything your way that they could suddenly "see," you'd be happy to incorporate that into your RP. With both of these approaches, the ball's in the other player's court (thereby avoiding any godmoding or powerposing) and the entire process is built around supporting the narrative.

Option two is to do a cold reading. It takes some practice, but it's a classic mentalist trick. Wikipedia article and Skeptic's Dictionary article can get you started. There's also some videos from conjurers showing how it's done, and James Randi has several appearances in various media that demonstrate it. (If you want to see it done poorly, just watch Sylvia Browne or John Edwards. If you want to see it hilariously explained, watch the South Park episode, "The Biggest Douche in the Universe," S6:15.) This approach will let you give a convincing reading that's dynamic for the other player, but it doesn't necessarily serve any larger narrative goals.

As a side note, I'm not looking to get into an argument about the reality of seers, psychics, or fortune telling in real life. Smile

I'm just trying to cover the ways that you can portray them in RP.

EDIT: Lorewise, I'm not personally aware of any NPCs with precognition, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Smile

sanguineFenrir · **08-08-2013, 05:45 PM**

EDIT: FreelanceWizard and some others beat me to it. I blame my slow typing....

I don't claim to have much experience in this as a subject, although I do have quite a bi of interest in it. Even in the real world, there are varying opinions and stances on psychics and mentalism and whether it's mystical, or if the person in question is just very adept at reading others. There are a few ways you could go about this, depending on how you'd like to do it and how skilled or accurate you want your character to be:

1. The simplest, but least organic (and potentially least fun) would be to ask people for certain descriptions about their character, or specifically ask them to emote more so you can pick up on things. It wouldn't feel very authentic though, and the other player would probably be able to guess what you're going to say based on what they just told you. It could also be construed as metagaming if you didn't stick to vague cliches.

2. Something else you could do is look into warm reading and cold reading. These techniques are what skeptics consider psychics and mediums to use in real life, and how well you pick them up will depend on how good you, the player, and your character are at reading people. You'll need to be quite observant and pay attention to your clients' behaviors, appearance/demographic and what they tell you: you can get a lot out of a person by asking them vague questions that have a lot of possible answers, or that are about things most people would experience. From the skeptic's POV, it's the fact that the psychic phrases these "observations" or answers in such a way that the client feels the psychic knows more than they do that makes the client amazed.

Perhaps Felix could, for example, observe his audience while he plays and watch what they're doing, in case of perspective clients. Since you're working within a form of fiction, you could also apply what you know about stories and character archetypes (but this can be touchy if the other player's not a fan of tropes, and information they don't give you, even if subtly, has a greater chance of being inaccurate.

I can link some things if you'd like, or research it and explain in greater detail when I get a chance, too. But basically, cold reading involves picking up on body language and obvious personality traits... subtle cues, while warm reading involves overhearing conversations from other people. You basically get them to give you information, and make inferences.

Felix Sideris · **08-08-2013, 05:48 PM**

(08-08-2013, 05:42 PM)Adelpha Wrote: Probably depends a lot on whether you want your character to have legitimate supernatural foresight, or just be a traditional cold-reader.

If the former, it could lead to very interesting RP if you do some research ahead of time to get familiar with the character that you'd be reading. You'd be unable to make a reading about that character's private thoughts unless that player was willing to OOCly give you some info to go on, but then that makes it feel a lot less exciting when someone receives a good reading. I'd be a little curious about whether such a thing is justifiable from a lore perspective (especially what potential cans of worms someone with future sight could open up), but there's so much supernatural stuff in the game's story nowadays that I imagine that you might be able to get away with it as long as you don't use those powers to metagame.

If the latter, it could also be interesting, but I'd personally find it draining to play a charlatan for a long period of time.Â

What was amazing is what the guy on WoW did.

He played a Warlock, and hanged out in a dark and gloomy zone, Duskwood.
Players would have to go see him, and when they arrive they would just sit and he'd do a reading, but you didn't have to make appointments so there was no way he could research your character.Â

As I said before, he claimed to be a psychic/fortune teller in real life as well, and he gave creepily accurate results about people's characters despite them not giving any information to him what-so-ever. I was one of those people.

As I said I'm not entirely sold and all that stuff and I take it with a grain of salt, but from a story telling/role playing perspective, it was -really- cool to see/experience. I think it would be awesome to do a similar kind of thing, but I'm not psychic.. So how would I fake it? XD Heck I'd be willing to look at legitimate stuff psychics do to give readings if it means I'd be able to role play something unique and interesting.

But hey, who knows. I don't really know what I am talking about so that's why I am here asking for ideas/opinions.

Myxie Tryxle · **08-08-2013, 05:51 PM**

The main risk with this idea is you'd be walking the razor's edge when it comes to meta-gaming. That may be fine if you have a certain linkshell in mind for the character and work out the details with the leaders or if you communicate ahead of time with individuals how it works. If you go with someone who truly has the gift of clairvoyance, it could be a valuable and interesting RP tool if used correctly, but the potential for accusations of god-moding and metagaming are quite high, depending on your audience. If you're a cold-reading charlatan, that should be less difficult. That sort of thing happens all the time in real life.

(08-08-2013, 05:48 PM)Felix Sideris Wrote: I think it would be awesome to do a similar kind of thing, but I'm not psychic.. So how would I fake it? XD Heck I'd be willing to look at legitimate stuff psychics do to give readings if it means I'd be able to role play something unique and interesting.

In my mind, all psychics are fakes. Should be easy to fake faking it. I've actually lost friends in real life over this type of argument, so I'll just provide you with this link to an article about Cold Reading if you'd like to look behind the curtain. If you'd rather remain blissful about the mystical idea of psychics and reading the future, I don't suggest looking further. Ignorance is most definitely bliss when it comes to real world "psychic powers."

Felix Sideris · **08-08-2013, 06:13 PM**

(08-08-2013, 05:51 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: The main risk with this idea is you'd be walking the razor's edge when it comes to meta-gaming. Â That may be fine if you have a certain linkshell in mind for the character and work out the details with the leaders or if you communicate ahead of time with individuals how it works. Â If you go with someone who truly has the gift of clairvoyance, it could be a valuable and interesting RP tool if used correctly, but the potential for accusations of god-moding and metagaming are quite high, depending on your audience. Â If you're a cold-reading charlatan, that should be less difficult. Â That sort of thing happens all the time in real life.

(08-08-2013, 05:48 PM)Felix Sideris Wrote: I think it would be awesome to do a similar kind of thing, but I'm not psychic.. So how would I fake it? XD Heck I'd be willing to look at legitimate stuff psychics do to give readings if it means I'd be able to role play something unique and interesting.

In my mind, all psychics are fakes. Â Should be easy to fake faking it. Â I've actually lost friends in real life over this type of argument, so I'll just provide you with this link to an article about Cold Reading if you'd like to look behind the curtain. Â If you'd rather remain blissful about the mystical idea of psychics and reading the future, I don't suggest looking further. Â Ignorance is most definitely bliss when it comes to real world "psychic powers."

Well, some believe and some don't. I'm in the middle. I think some people do have a higher perception than others though, which can greatly aid in the reading of people.

It is such a small niche for role play but I think it would be really fun to do for the community.

CassandraJean · **08-08-2013, 06:15 PM**

There is also the card way to go. You mentioned seeing cards on a table, and that was what made you think of this? If you used tarot cards, then really you wouldnt have to know anything about the characters you were giving readings to. You would just need to do a normal tarot reading (maybe have the cards sitting beside you while you played) and rp it out as you do it in real life.

CallmeYahweh · **08-08-2013, 06:19 PM**

I've thought about this sort of style before, and even considered making this type of character. (Still might, even!)

I have some experience reading tarot; I bought a deck a few years back and practiced giving readings to my friends/family for a while before I "performed" at some of my city's boardwalk festivals. Made some decent change doing it, hahaha.

In general, psychic readings and fortune telling is all about how well you sell the idea. Use vague, sweeping generalizations to probe out information people are interested in/want to hear, and then narrow it down from there. That's the direction I'd take a character of this sort of archetype; big time fraud, looking to make a some gil swindling. Granted, in ARR you could easily make the real deal, given the world that the game takes place in.

Either way though, you'd want to talk with the interested party beforehand, and establish some key points of OOC information to work in. Using the wiki's rumor section could be fun. The success of the thing relies on communication though. That warlock rp'er from WoW being a good example of this done right.

It could be a lot of fun to try out!

Eva · **08-08-2013, 06:26 PM**

I have a lot of experience with tarot myself and thought about doing something similar in line with the whole 'Priestess of Nymeia' sort of thing - predicting fate, seeing the pattern in the Spinner's tapestry, etc. Â I've just been very hesitant to inject tarot into actual lore like that because there's really no basis for it, so I've kind of gone the route of the wise woman instead. Â Eva left off in 1.0 believing certain things and having faith in certain things and when these events were realized some might regard her as a sort of "seer" or such. Â Or maybe it was all a coincidence. Â I kind of like that ambiguity angle.

But I agree, RPing any kind of a 'psychic', 'empath', or someone who should have some sort of unnatural sense is kind of a no-no in my opinion. Â I'm all right if someone takes cues from things and a character draws natural conclusions, but I will be put off if someone ever sent me a /tell and said, "My character is an empath so she would know how your character feels right now, so tell me if she's really happy or if she's putting on a false happy face."

TL;DR: Â I think it's creative and a wonderful character idea - up until the point where it could encroach on another character via metagame/godmode.

Felix Sideris · **08-08-2013, 06:37 PM**

(08-08-2013, 06:26 PM)Eva Wrote: I have a lot of experience with tarot myself and thought about doing something similar in line with the whole 'Priestess of Nymeia' sort of thing - predicting fate, seeing the pattern in the Spinner's tapestry, etc. Â I've just been very hesitant to inject tarot into actual lore like that because there's really no basis for it, so I've kind of gone the route of the wise woman instead. Â Eva left off in 1.0 believing certain things and having faith in certain things and when these events were realized some might regard her as a sort of "seer" or such. Â Or maybe it was all a coincidence. Â I kind of like that ambiguity angle.

But I agree, RPing any kind of a 'psychic', 'empath', or someone who should have some sort of unnatural sense is kind of a no-no in my opinion. Â I'm all right if someone takes cues from things and a character draws natural conclusions, but I will be put off if someone ever sent me a /tell and said, "My character is an empath so she would know how your character feels right now, so tell me if she's really happy or if she's putting on a false happy face."

TL;DR: Â I think it's creative and a wonderful character idea - up until the point where it could encroach on another character via metagame/godmode.

Oh yeah, OOC communication basically kills the idea. But what if someone offered your character a reading, having no contact with you OOCly or ICly before hand, and told you exactly how your character felt, or whatever else for that matter, and was right? That's when the RP would be fun and interesting.

Meta-gaming and God-moding is a no no for me, as it is most people. In fact, I prefer to let things play out ICly instead of doing a lot of OOC organizing/planning unless it is for something like a guild/Free company.

Ildur · **08-08-2013, 06:48 PM**

The only way a fortune teller can be fun for both parties (i.e. the teller and the client) is if you go for cold/warm reading. Not because the alternative is 'meta-gamey' or anything, but because the roleplaying of the reading would become kind of meaningless: you will be repeating what the other told you but in some convoluted way.

You could also cheat miserably and read people's bio's if you find them in the wiki and use cold/warm reading techniques to camouflage your cheating. But as I just said, that's cheating. Tongue

Felix Sideris · **08-08-2013, 06:53 PM**

(08-08-2013, 06:48 PM)Ildur Wrote: The only way a fortune teller can be fun for both parties (i.e. the teller and the client) is if you go for cold/warm reading. Not because the alternative is 'meta-gamey' or anything, but because the roleplaying of the reading would become kind of meaningless: you will be repeating what the other told you but in some convoluted way.

You could also cheat miserably and read people's bio's if you find them in the wiki and use cold/warm reading techniques to camouflage your cheating. But as I just said, that's cheating.

Cheating, or tactical reconnaissance?Â Thumbsup

Jk xD I know what you mean.

Roda · **08-08-2013, 07:02 PM**

You could always have a network of people to carry out your prophecies.
Like, say, you warn someone to be wary of the color red. Â A few days later someone who wears all red, or has a red tattoo joins their RP group and starts to bring all sorts of conflict.

This way, players coming to you would be sort of accepting a random quest they'd have to complete.

It'd be hard to pull off (loooots of organization) but it would be super cool if done properly. :D

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