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Brave · **08-24-2013, 01:51 AM**

Ok so in my search for trying learn more about the game and Lore I've run across this term a lot.

*spoilers may begin here* (I honestly have no idea how common place this is since I only reached level 11)

There have been discussions about abilities linked to it and an explanation on why we can understand almost all things spoken (like literally... languages etc) so I was hoping for some clarification.

For starters how many people RP having this ability? Â Lore wise it seems to be popping up a bit. Â If a lot of people are RPing having it... how exactly does one deal with it activating OR for that matter keep anything in their background moderately secretive ><

Is it attributed to why we all understand each other? Â Have people tried to learn to control it? Â WHO gives it to us and how many people via lore are aware of it's existence?

I know that a lot of these questions might spoil my in game leveling experience and I'm not TOO worried about spoilers. I'd rather have a story that didn't trample over lore, than enjoy a momentary surprise or twist from the quest line.

Varus · **08-24-2013, 02:16 AM**

According to the story quests up to level 20, the Echo allows one to "understand the mind of the person" instead of their words. So, it's not exactly a universal translator, but more like surface-level mind reading.Â

According to Minfilia, you cannot control the Echo.

Brave · **08-24-2013, 02:26 AM**

(08-24-2013, 02:16 AM)Tyonis Wrote: According to the story quests up to level 20, the Echo allows one to "understand the mind of the person" instead of their words. So, it's not exactly a universal translator, but more like surface-level mind reading.Â

According to Minfilia, you cannot control the Echo.

Ok, but what about other abilities attributed to it? Â I think I encountered a quest where I saw into the past of someone. Â Does anyone encounter this ability in their RP? Â And since we can't control it, would it be more like an IC whisper telling them "Hey... so you get an insight regarding my past *insert memory*"

Not that this is bad etc... I think the Echo has fun RP possibilities but I guess I'm a little unsure how I should deal with people who have it OR if I should try to incorporate it into my own background.

Varus · **08-24-2013, 02:30 AM**

Yes, the part where you delve into another character's past is also part of the Echo. Someone will have to find the quote Minfilia says about how to control the Echo, but I'm pretty sure she implies or outright denies being able to control it.

I know there are plenty of characters that ICly have the Echo, but I've never actually RP'ed it out, so you'll have to ask someone else.

NOTE: A very important aspect of the Echo is that it allows your characters to fight Primals without being Tempered.

If your character does not ICly possess the Echo and goes off to fight a Primal, odds are, he or she will become enslaved in body, mind, and spirit, to that Primal.

Dubs · **08-24-2013, 02:33 AM**

Not sure at this point if I personally am going to acknowledge Main Story arcs and tie them into my RP. Seems to contradict a lot of backstory and IMO is too confining. Don't get me wrong it's great for lore but if someone is going around beaming my brain claiming to metagame or godmode with Echo then well I'm just going to have to hand them a tin foil hat and put on my lead circlet.

"I just read your thoughts w/ my Echo"
Me:"Nope" taps lead circlet.
"Lead only stops X-ray vision, this is FF not DC"
Me: Â "And here's your sign"

Brave · **08-24-2013, 02:34 AM**

Well thank you for replying! Â At least I know other people are using this ability. Â I'll keep perusing the forum. Â There's just a lot to sift through =)

(08-24-2013, 02:33 AM)Dubs Wrote: Not sure at this point if I personally am going to acknowledge Main Story arcs and tie them into my RP. Seems to contradict a lot of backstory and IMO is too confining. Don't get me wrong it's great for lore but if someone is going around beaming my brain claiming to metagame or godmode with Echo then well I'm just going to have to hand them a tin foil hat and put on my lead circlet.

"I just read your thoughts w/ my Echo"
Me:"Nope" taps lead circlet.
"Lead only stops X-ray vision, this is FF not DC"
Me: Â "And here"s your sign"

I hear ya, if it's being used as a communication method it can practically trump great liars ><

It's one of those things that seem pretty pertinent to the game though. Â So if there are other people using it, I wanted to know if they've devised some way to not be abusive or if it's mostly being used to color interactions with NPCs or when a player WANTS to allow it's use.

As it was posted above though, it seems to be something we can't control. Â So there's a good chance we can acknowledge it's existence and let the player decide if they wish to be forthcoming with their info or not.

FreelanceWizard · **08-24-2013, 09:10 AM**

(08-24-2013, 02:33 AM)Dubs Wrote: Not sure at this point if I personally am going to acknowledge Main Story arcs and tie them into my RP. Seems to contradict a lot of backstory and IMO is too confining. Don't get me wrong it's great for lore but if someone is going around beaming my brain claiming to metagame or godmode with Echo then well I'm just going to have to hand them a tin foil hat and put on my lead circlet.

The fact that it's not controllable means that it's harder to use for metagaming or godmoding, though of course jerks and bad RPers will come up with ways to work around that. The Echo's actually woven through most of the story of XIV 1.x and 2.x, and of course, it's the only canonical way that you can fight Primals -- the Echo acts as a sort of spiritual shield against being Tempered, and once you're Tempered, well... suffice it to say that you quickly get on just about every PC's and most NPC's hit lists.

EDIT: In terms of how I use it in RP, I basically just restrict it to "can't be Tempered, convinces L'yhta that Hydaelyn itself is her patron deity, sometimes allows her to know lore that appears in cutscenes." As with other powers, I leave the door open to other players if they want to say, "hey, if you want, here's something you might remember about me through the Echo," but I'd never ask a player if I could have the Echo grant me knowledge of their character's history.

Brave · **08-24-2013, 04:26 PM**

(08-24-2013, 09:10 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(08-24-2013, 02:33 AM)Dubs Wrote: Not sure at this point if I personally am going to acknowledge Main Story arcs and tie them into my RP. Seems to contradict a lot of backstory and IMO is too confining. Don't get me wrong it's great for lore but if someone is going around beaming my brain claiming to metagame or godmode with Echo then well I'm just going to have to hand them a tin foil hat and put on my lead circlet.

The fact that it's not controllable means that it's harder to use for metagaming or godmoding, though of course jerks and bad RPers will come up with ways to work around that. The Echo's actually woven through most of the story of XIV 1.x and 2.x, and of course, it's the only canonical way that you can fight Primals -- the Echo acts as a sort of spiritual shield against being Tempered, and once you're Tempered, well... suffice it to say that you quickly get on just about every PC's and most NPC's hit lists.

EDIT: In terms of how I use it in RP, I basically just restrict it to "can't be Tempered, convinces L'yhta that Hydaelyn itself is her patron deity, sometimes allows her to know lore that appears in cutscenes." As with other powers, I leave the door open to other players if they want to say, "hey, if you want, here's something you might remember about me through the Echo," but I'd never ask a player if I could have the Echo grant me knowledge of their character's history.

Wow I'm really glad you said something about this. Â I just hit lvl 15 before I had to rest up a little for work. Â So if I wanted to IC'ly fight primals there really isn't any other way around it. Â The game has been pretty great so far guys, hopefully more snippets of Lore in the main quest will help me better formulate my background.

Kyatai · **08-25-2013, 11:24 AM**

I think... just like in anything... it can be used within reason and with respect for other RPers. Bad RPers will try to use it irresponsibly-
- and that is the point where I say 'thanks for the fish' and tap out of the RP. That is, if the person is MEANING to be a metagaming jerk. If he/she is just ignorant, there is the polite OOC /tell to inform them that that's not acceptable. That any Echo usage is only permitted in RP after an OOC 'ok' from the one you're Echoing on.

I played a Pscionist in Vanguard. I think I did it well- I set my limits, I cleared any 'mind reading' and 'psychic surgery' things with my RP partners. I created sanctions IC to limit her use, etc.
Echo is similiar (albeit less controllable)- but as OOC humans, we =CAN= control the use of Echo. IC characters? no.

So... Chiane has it. But it's much more of a 'quirk' than a focus of my RP. Kinda like her hair color...

Clover · **08-25-2013, 11:39 AM**

"Echo"? "Tempered"?
I'm level 21 and I believe it's the very first time I hear those words. I need to do some intense google when I'm back home, as I'm not understanding a thing... orz

Brave · **08-25-2013, 11:44 AM**

(08-25-2013, 11:39 AM)Clover Wrote: "Echo"? "Tempered"?
I'm level 21 and I believe it's the very first time I hear those words. I need to do some intense google when I'm back home, as I'm not understanding a thing... orz

Well it might be the first time you've heard the terms but as I warned earlier regarding spoilers >< (if they still matter to you don't read further)

You've probably already encountered the ability story wise, just not seen it's name yet. Â I have to agree though... all abilities can be used with respect in RP BUT I don't want there to be a pre conceived issue with people using it in game "without warning". Â So if I do decide to have my character use the Echo (highly likely if it's needed to fight primals) then I want to know what I'm getting into.

I intend to get a bit further into the main quest line before tackling RP, that way I can understand the world a little better. Â So much of this has been a learning experience >< Â A very appreciated one though =)

Clover · **08-25-2013, 12:09 PM**

(08-25-2013, 11:44 AM)Brave Wrote: Well it might be the first time you've heard the terms but as I warned earlier regarding spoilers >< (if they still matter to you don't read further)

Ah, I actually don't mind spoilers in this game, as I'm not really taking the main story into consideration ^^;

I'm going to assume that, whatever the Echo and being tampered by a primal are, they're not things my character is supposed to know ICly (?).

Kyrio Lamansque · **08-25-2013, 12:12 PM**

(08-24-2013, 02:33 AM)Dubs Wrote: Not sure at this point if I personally am going to acknowledge Main Story arcs and tie them into my RP. Seems to contradict a lot of backstory and IMO is too confining. Don't get me wrong it's great for lore but if someone is going around beaming my brain claiming to metagame or godmode with Echo then well I'm just going to have to hand them a tin foil hat and put on my lead circlet.

"I just read your thoughts w/ my Echo"
Me:"Nope" taps lead circlet.
"Lead only stops X-ray vision, this is FF not DC"
Me: Â "And here's your sign"

In general, this pretty much sums up my attitude toward the problem. Its sort of like SWTOR and its storyline quests. Just because it's happening to my toon, doesn't mean the Character itself is experiencing it. Because if what's happening to my toon is what's happening to my character, then we're going to be having a lot of characters with some very similar stories once they reach a certain point on their life. So no, my character did not fight off a huge golem that some mysterious man was surprised he lived through, he's really just traipsing about the Shroud helping to control the Ixial population by having them spayed or neutered.

And I'll give you an internet for getting the reference.

FreelanceWizard · **08-25-2013, 12:58 PM**

(08-25-2013, 12:09 PM)Clover Wrote: Ah, I actually don't mind spoilers in this game, as I'm not really taking the main story into consideration ^^;

I'm going to assume that, whatever the Echo and being tampered by a primal are, they're not things my character is supposed to know ICly (?).

Allow me to toss out some spoilers, then. Smile

Show Content

On the larger topic, you can "genericize" elements of the main scenario quest without getting rid of its key lore points, and actually, the XIV team's been pretty good about doing some of that for you. For instance, everyone can repeatedly fight Primals because they're being repeatedly summoned; the cutscene involving the mothercrystal clearly shows many other "chosen" characters; the group mentioned in the spoiler above looks for those with the Echo to recruit them; Grand Companies are always looking for new promising recruits; Ascians are one of the main "plot villains;" etc.

So, taking the example of Ascian and his golem, you can genericize that as a mysterious attacker assaulted you in (insert what you want your character to have been doing here) while you noticed someone mysteriously watching you from afar (a member of the spoiler-riffic group above Smile

). You can take IC or not information that the game provides you via the Echo right after that scene without it having to have been the memories of the specific NPC depicted.

EDIT: Or, of course, you can elide the whole event, which is what I did with L'yhta. Yes, she has the Echo, and yes, she's aware of the key lore things and groups mentioned in the spoiler above, but she's not had any personal interaction with Ascians at all. The important thing, IMO, is to keep the essence of the story in terms of lore (lest you run into issues with your story colliding with lore). You can turn the "genericize" dial all the way from "I got this stuff, just in different ways" to "I basically had the event in the quest occur to me more or less as depicted, with just some small details changed."

Brave · **08-25-2013, 03:26 PM**

(08-25-2013, 12:58 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(08-25-2013, 12:09 PM)Clover Wrote: Ah, I actually don't mind spoilers in this game, as I'm not really taking the main story into consideration ^^;

I'm going to assume that, whatever the Echo and being tampered by a primal are, they're not things my character is supposed to know ICly (?).

Allow me to toss out some spoilers, then.

Show Content

Level 21 spoilers!
Minfilia, leader of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn -- the group of disciples of Archon Louisoix, reformed after his death to try to address the Primals problem -- explains the Echo to you after you join the group. It's basically a mystical power granted by the mothercrystal of Hydaelyn (or so it's believed) that grants the ability to see into the pasts of others. Sometimes you can actually interact with the memories, but you can't change anything. The Echo triggers seemingly at random; you have no control over it.

Later in that story arc, you end up encountering Ifrit. He uses an ability called "Tempering" that binds the souls and Aether of those exposed to it to him, allowing him to control their minds and sustain himself using their life force. Those who are Tempered turn into slavish worshippers of the Primal. You, as an Echo-blessed character, are unaffected, which surprises Ifrit. He then indicates that some mysterious force indicated that there would be some, such as your character, who are "sworn to no god" and must be destroyed. That's how the Ifrit fight starts.

What you find out afterwards from Thancred is that Tempering is permanent, and as such, the Scions are going to execute those who were captured and Tempered by Ifrit to prevent him from drawing Aether from them. Additionally, he and Minfilia explain that the Echo protects you from being Tempered.

As a result, the only canonical, lore-supported way to fight Primals ICly is to have the Echo, which comes as a result of being chosen by the mothercrystal as one of its warriors (in the level 7ish cutscene). Of course, you can come up with other ways around it in RP (or simply not do that content IC), but there's only one lore-supported way thus far.

On the larger topic, you can "genericize" elements of the main scenario quest without getting rid of its key lore points, and actually, the XIV team's been pretty good about doing some of that for you. For instance, everyone can repeatedly fight Primals because they're being repeatedly summoned; the cutscene involving the mothercrystal clearly shows many other "chosen" characters; the group mentioned in the spoiler above looks for those with the Echo to recruit them; Grand Companies are always looking for new promising recruits; Ascians are one of the main "plot villains;" etc.

So, taking the example of Ascian and his golem, you can genericize that as a mysterious attacker assaulted you in (insert what you want your character to have been doing here) while you noticed someone mysteriously watching you from afar (a member of the spoiler-riffic group above ). You can take IC or not information that the game provides you via the Echo right after that scene without it having to have been the memories of the specific NPC depicted.

EDIT: Or, of course, you can elide the whole event, which is what I did with L'yhta. Yes, she has the Echo, and yes, she's aware of the key lore things and groups mentioned in the spoiler above, but she's not had any personal interaction with Ascians at all. The important thing, IMO, is to keep the essence of the story in terms of lore (lest you run into issues with your story colliding with lore). You can turn the "genericize" dial all the way from "I got this stuff, just in different ways" to "I basically had the event in the quest occur to me more or less as depicted, with just some small details changed."

I want to... "echo" this statement. Â (By the tweleve I'm so hilarious =P)

I absolutely agree that we don't want to say the main storyline is a verbatim version of our own. Â If that were the case we'd all be the same. Â The Echo however does seem to be an important factor to the world though. Â Does that mean everyone has to have it? Â Of course not. Â But if there are aspects that I'd want to do in game with my story that have a lore requirement "fighting primals means you need to have the Echo" than my hands are somewhat tied you know? Â (I'm not sure how Summoners are working in this game story wise but I imagine that if there are quest lines where you have to deal with capturing lesser primals like you did in XI than you might very well be forced into using the Echo too.)

Anyway I'm going to go read these spoilers left behind and see if they help me formulate more of my background. Â Thank you all for the contributions and input. Â This is really helpful.

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So about this Echo... *possible spoilers*

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

So about this Echo... possible spoilers