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Reibees · **09-13-2013, 05:53 PM**

(09-13-2013, 05:42 PM)Kylin Wrote: I'm getting really tired of the defensiveness toward this, as amusing as it is. Point is, I'm allowed to have an opinion like anyone else. And I'm allowed to opt who I want to RP with and when.

I never once attacked anyone MMO hopping. Read my post again. Seriously. My point was that OTHER people see a huge list of games on your record and yes, they DO assume. That's human nature. My advice in this arena was to only advertise the major ones, not the other ones someone spent minimal time is. Take the advice or leave it. But stop getting defensive over it. My opinion on the matter will not change either way. Sorry.

People are defensive because the comment basically translated to "if you played games before this one, people won't want to contribute time to you rp wise", naturally people will get defensive if you tell them something they can't go back and fix is cause for rejection.Â

I never pinpointed my comment toward you directly, but I do find it rude and uncalled for for people to automatically shun me from any potential storyline just because I played a game before XIV. If I didn't intend to stay, I'd do what I did with GW2 - play for 2 days and quit.Â

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine in feeling bothered by the idea.

A way to avoid people abandoning your story is to get to know them before you dedicate them to a massive part of your plot, not just avoiding players with MMO background like the plague. Â

Imho, you shouldn't be getting into romances or 'family' ties to your characters with people you don't know whatsoever - of course those people vanish/disappear. They have no value of the story because it was just winged on the spot.Â

This is why I'll never understand those "LF SISTER TO MY OC, oh sure you rp good you'll do", because why would they feel inclined to stick around?Â

They wouldn't.

Most people'll ditch you the second they get bored. That's anyone, though, not just people who played games prior.Â

Â If you befriend them and know they don't intend to leave the game/abandon the story, then that, in my opinion, is when you should go "hey are you interested in being x character relation".

But /shrug. Like you said, you have your opinion, we all have our's.Â

I do appreciate the rest of your advice, I just found it rude of anyone to automatically shun anyone for something they can't go back and change.

Kylin · **09-13-2013, 05:57 PM**

My primary issue with the alternate "opinions" so far aren't the differing opinions themselves, FYI. It's the blatant name-calling. "Asshole-ish," "rude," etc. That's the only part that is 100% uncalled for. And it needs to stop. Other than that, your opinion, whether I agree or not, is perfectly fine. The number one rule on these forums is showing respect. And those kind of comments are simply not respectful in the slightest.

Edit: Some of the snarkiness is also unnecessary.

Reibees · **09-13-2013, 06:02 PM**

(09-13-2013, 05:57 PM)Kylin Wrote: My primary issue with the alternate "opinions" so far aren't the differing opinions themselves, FYI. It's the blatant name-calling. "Asshole-ish," "rude," etc. That's the only part that is 100% uncalled for. And it needs to stop. Other than that, your opinion, whether I agree or not, is perfectly fine. The number one rule on these forums is showing respect. And those kind of comments are simply not respectful in the slightest.

I never name called- I used the term rude because it sounds rude, but it wasn't name calling in any way. Rude is a way of disrespect to an individual, something that is uncalled for and unfair, it's not in any way an insult.Â

I apologize if you feel I was being aggressive or attacking in any way, but that wasn't my intention.Â

My intention was to state that such an act as outright shunning people (something I stated was a primary cause of avoidance of MMO RP to begin with), is unfair and, for now lack of a better term, not nice.

Â It scares people away from RP communities when you say you're going to block them out completely regardless of how well of a writer or how devoted to the game they are.

Kylin · **09-13-2013, 06:05 PM**

If they're "devoted to the game," then they wouldn't fall into the category of MMO hopper to begin with, would they? Perhaps this is about a miscommunication about the definition of the term "MMO hopper." In my eyes, MMO hoppers go from one MMO to the next, never devoting themselves to any one for any long period of time. If one is devoted to a game, whether they play other MMO's on the side or not, they're probably not an MMO hopper (at least not to the game or games they're devoted to).

Reibees · **09-13-2013, 06:08 PM**

I think then the terms were confusing with how it was explained. The way it was explained was that if you at any point quit a game, or played another game at the same time, you were 'hopping' from games. Â It sounded like: Because I'd played WoW, Tera, (and GW2 for a very short while), that I'd be excluded from a vast majority of RP development. S:Â

Again, I apologize if it came off poorly, it's simply how it was worded I think that was taken badly. /:

Azelle · **09-13-2013, 06:12 PM**

Lets not overreact please? Yes game hopping is often seen negatively exactly for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. It's hard to trust someone into a complex storyline that could span over many months when the player is knoen to hop to a new game 4 months after release. Relax, hopping is not you playing years in a game then years in another then another! It's staying few months only in a game and leaving for reasons your own. I tried many games on the side myself but really roleplayed seriously in EQ and EQ2 so those are the one worth mentioning.Â

Hopping doesn't make you a bad players or role-player! But it *could* makes it harder to get involved in long stories. In the end of the day you decide how you present yourself!

My advice (they work for me anyway) for walk to RP already going on: listen to what the rp is about, wait at a proper moment to walk up and comment directly to them. Emoting doesn't work half the time. Are they preparing an expedition to explore the ruins of xyz? "Sorry to interrupt but I heard you are going up to xyz? I know the land pretty well 'round these parts, need a guide?"
And so on. If they are interested they will jump on the occasion to have someone participate! I found that direct approach to give results. You can also start up something and ask them if they are interested in exploring the ruins of xyz etc.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-13-2013, 06:23 PM**

(09-13-2013, 06:12 PM)Azelle Wrote: Lets not overreact please? Yes game hopping is often seen negatively exactly for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. It's hard to trust someone into a complex storyline that could span over many months when the player is knoen to hop to a new game 4 months after release. Relax, hopping is not you playing years in a game then years in another then another! It's staying few months only in a game and leaving for reasons your own. I tried many games on the side myself but really roleplayed seriously in EQ and EQ2 so those are the one worth mentioning.Â

Hopping doesn't make you a bad players or role-player! But it *could* makes it harder to get involved in long stories. In the end of the day you decide how you present yourself!

My advice (they work for me anyway) for walk to RP already going on: listen to what the rp is about, wait at a proper moment to walk up and comment directly to them. Emoting doesn't work half the time. Are they preparing an expedition to explore the ruins of xyz? "Sorry to interrupt but I heard you are going up to xyz? I know the land pretty well 'round these parts, need a guide?"
And so on. If they are interested they will jump on the occasion to have someone participate! I found that direct approach to give results. You can also start up something and ask them if they are interested in exploring the ruins of xyz etc.

Â Honestly, it never occurred to me to think of people who'd played multiple MMOs this way, before. Interesting.

Ildur · **09-13-2013, 07:09 PM**

My problem with stopping interactions with 'MMO Hoppers' isn't strictly speaking the stop of interactions. That's, arguably, a sensible thing to do for the reasons that have been mentioned already.
No, my problem with it is that some people seem to think there's a direct correlation and causation between the ammount of games played and MMO hopping. Or at least that was pretty much the interpretation I understood: that the time you spent on any game before moving on was meaningless as long as you have changed games at any point.

Kylin Wrote:My point was that OTHER people see a huge list of games on your record and yes, they DO assume.

Except you said this on the MMO Hopping section:

Quote:Speaking for myself? If I see you have played a ton of MMOs or have a HUUUGE listing in your games list, I'm going to purposely limit my interactions with you to casual conversations only. No storylines at all. I know that sounds terrible, but you have to try to put yourselves in the shoes of the opposite party and understand how the hopping directly and negatively impacts us.

I'm sorry you consider the word 'rude' as a personal attack, but I do consider judging people only on circumstantial evidence as an impolite thing to do.

FreelanceWizard · **09-13-2013, 07:14 PM**

Personally, I pay no mind to someone's MMO play history, since I feel that compelling RP can "capture" a player into an otherwise lackluster MMO (not saying XIV 2.x is lackluster, mind you Smile

). I've played lots of MMOs serially, since I've been playing the genre basically since it was created. I would certainly hope no one would say, "That FreelanceWizard, he's played so many games that he has no hope of being a reliable RPer." No, I'd rather people shun me -- if they feel the need to do so -- because we have incompatible perspectives on RP. As an FC leader, what I care about is whether your character fits the concept and whether your style of RP fits with our charter. Where and how you've RPed in the past is somewhere close to the bottom of my list, in the "boy, that's interesting, maybe we crossed paths before" pile.

I'll pass on speculating about why the "big names" aren't around, other than to say I don't think it's as simple as evading "MMO hoppers." I will, however, say that there's lots of great RP groups around, lots of great RPers around, and you absolutely don't need to get a "big name" into your RP for it to be fun.

LiadansWhisper · **09-13-2013, 07:17 PM**

For what it's worth, I thought Kylin's ideas of how to start RP were really helpful and spot-on. Â Some of them I honestly hadn't thought of myself (being naturally shy).

Edited to Add: I know that some of what he said may have rubbed people the wrong way, but I really hope that the good advice that he gave will not be lost in all of this. :-\

Kylin · **09-13-2013, 07:36 PM**

(09-13-2013, 07:09 PM)Ildur Wrote: Except you said this on the MMO Hopping section:

Quote:Speaking for myself? If I see you have played a ton of MMOs or have a HUUUGE listing in your games list, I'm going to purposely limit my interactions with you to casual conversations only. No storylines at all. I know that sounds terrible, but you have to try to put yourselves in the shoes of the opposite party and understand how the hopping directly and negatively impacts us.

I'm sorry you consider the word 'rude' as a personal attack, but I do consider judging people only on circumstantial evidence as an impolite thing to do.

It is a personal attack. End of story. Had I seen it used on anyone else, I'd say the same thing. It's not welcome on these forums. Period.

In regards to my comments about "others," keep in mind I've been around for 3 years. I talk to a LOT of RPers, and I'm faaaar away from being alone in my thoughts. Would you have preferred I said nothing about the issue and let some people keep wondering why some RPers seem to purposely brush them off? You don't have to like the stance, but it does exist. And better to be aware of it so it can better be combated, yes?

Roda · **09-13-2013, 09:20 PM**

How about, instead of making a fuss over an RPer's probability of leaving a game, we try to give them a solid reason to stay?

I know people who hop from game to game due to the fact that they can't find RP. If you ignore that person because they can't seem to stick to a game, well, you're not really helping now are you?

[Ok I just cut off a rant and just gonna auto-tl;dr it. NEITHER SIDE OF THE FENCE SHOULD STAY ROOTED TO THEIR COMFORT ZONE. Â MEETING NEW PEOPLE IS COOL, BEING NEW PEOPLE IS COOL. Â IF THINGS DON'T GO AS PLANNED, GOOD. Â IT'S TWO KINDS OF CHARACTER BUILDING!]
Yelling isn't mad, yelling is SPIRITED!

FreelanceWizard · **09-13-2013, 09:35 PM**

(09-13-2013, 07:36 PM)Kylin Wrote: Would you have preferred I said nothing about the issue and let some people keep wondering why some RPers seem to purposely brush them off? You don't have to like the stance, but it does exist. And better to be aware of it so it can better be combated, yes?

At the risk of being inflammatory, let me ask: how could this possibly be combated? If a group of players says, "We don't want to RP with people who've played too many MMOs (in our opinion) because they're not reliable in RP," what can truly be done to dispel this point of view? It seems as if their minds are made up and their choice of who to RP with made -- otherwise they might be jumping into threads and RP with new players if they seem appropriate and high quality (to them), as opposed to waiting for the "MMO hoppers" to vanish.

Further, as Roda said, this seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people leave a game because they can't find RP, and then the existing players in an MMO shun new players to the game because they might be "MMO hoppers," then are they not simply ensuring that people leave for possibly greener pastures? It's better, I think, to give people a reason to stay so that the RP "hooks" them in, even if they might not particularly like the game. I stayed with EQ1 and CoH long after the gameplay became stale because I was into the RP. Why not give others that opportunity?

Kylin · **09-13-2013, 09:37 PM**

I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days Laugh

Naunet · **09-13-2013, 10:22 PM**

(09-13-2013, 09:37 PM)Kylin Wrote: I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days

You think expressing an opinion that it is rude to make certain assumptions about others is a personal attack, and yet you pull out snide, passive aggressive comments like this one that do nothing but belittle the opinions of those who don't agree with you? That is, it suffices to say, rude.

I find the idea that anyone should feel as though they need to censor their MMO history for fear of being excluded from the "RP club" absolutely ridiculous. You made some excellent suggestions to those shy regarding initiating roleplay, but those suggestions are rather tempered by the aggressively exclusive stance you've taken towards your fellow roleplayers. That's not to say they're bad suggestions, but it certainly lends a rather discouraging tone to your post. And quite honestly? It bothers me on a personal level that someone would actively exclude me simply because of previous games I've played. Not because they've interacted with me and have decided they don't like me OOCly. Not because they've interacted with me and have decided they don't like my roleplay style. Not because they have made anyÂ kind of informed decision, but simply because they saw me talk about games I have played in the past.

Of course, no one should feel as though they need to roleplay with any of these "big names" on the forum in order to actually get roleplay out of the game, but this kind of viewpoint is discouraging on a community level, to say the least.

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