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Azelle · **09-13-2013, 09:09 PM**

Yes there are many strumpets and maybe a lot of tease from the female side of Miqo'te (is it me or is it more on the seeker side?), but, there are also a TON of normal Miqo'te, like guards to take only that example, pretty serious Smile

Â My character think the city life corrupts them rofl!

Nako Vesh · **09-14-2013, 12:01 AM**

(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote: Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

While I agree with you for the most part, dismissing a critical discussion doesn't help anything. You can like something while being critical of it, and from where I'm standing that's all I see this thread doing.

But again, I do agree with your main point. I saw it in WoW with Blood Elves. Playing the mana addiction part was too "icky" for some so their Blood Elves were magically blue eyed and untainted. Then again, it's individual choice as to how you enjoy your RP.

That all said, considering some of the Miqo'te real life influences, the jokey portrayal of their sexuality comes across as a bit... ugh...

Gideon Aryeh · **09-16-2013, 01:08 AM**

(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD

Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. [[/u]u] Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

I have to agree with this statement of yours Aysun. Seeing this in many previous mmos *sighs*....yeah I'll shut up now.

Cato · **09-16-2013, 05:57 AM**

As far as I'm concerned some things are simply present in the game purely as a bit of comic relief rather than something to be taken seriously. In some cases additions to any given MMO aren't properly screened for consistency. Issues tend to arise when role-players then decide to focus on obscure scraps of lore even when it's contrary to what is seen elsewhere.

...and it's perfectly possible to like some aspects of a playable race whilst loathing others. I wouldn't stop going to a restaurant I enjoy just because they add something I dislike to the menu. As far as the Miqo'te are concerned, there's a ridiculous amount of focus being put on sex - most of it bearing the same awkward justifications. It'd be nice if the same amount of effort was put into the other aspects of Miqo'te lore, though I won't get my hopes up too much. Just because a few Miqo'te are shown to be 'loose' it doesn't mean that all of them are. From what I've seen in role-play it's ridiculously disproportionate as to how many Miqo'te are overly sexualised. When the exception becomes the norm there's a pretty major problem as far as I'm concerned.

N'taeyl · **09-18-2013, 04:06 PM**

(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote: Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant

While I do agree with this, isn't it their job to cater to what we want?Â They're offering up their work to entice us into buying it.Â I really don't think someone is going to make an oozing flatulent octopus race and demand we like it or play a different game and put that on the market.Â Not that extreme of course, but the industry is about catering to the most people right?Â So they put in a buncha sexy cat girls, especially since the main target is Japan.Â They also probably knew most Mithra in XI were dudes.

I've always been one to complain about how sexualized, or girly, my characters are represented. (I refuse to use the sit on my Miqote <_<) I also know that I'm a small percentage of most female players so I deal with it for the most part.Â The sexuality portrayed by the NPCs in question I think is more fan service than actual logic and lore.Â There may be, or is, lore explaining why Sun Miqote are more promiscuous, and it seems the entire race is by nature anyway, but it's not worth discussing logically.Â All we can do is complain about how sex sells.

allgivenover · **09-18-2013, 04:22 PM**

(09-18-2013, 04:06 PM)Saikoray Wrote: The sexuality portrayed by the NPCs in question I think is more fan service than actual logic and lore.

We don't get to decide what's lore and what isn't. We learn about the game lore by what's presented in game and official lore posts, we don't get to cherry pick it because we don't like certain aspects.

Perhaps Sunseekers were written that way to cater to fan-service, but even if that were true that doesn't make that lore invalid. This doesn't mean you have to RP your Sunseeker as promiscuous, and in fact many might really like the idea of monogamy and reduced sexual availability as they would have exclusive access to a male.

If it bothers you so much that a good number of Seekers are canonically promiscuous or have no problem with monetizing their sexuality, consider that it doesn't reflect badly on YOU personally. You are not your character in real life and you are not a Miqo'te in real life, canon promiscuity presented by other Miqo'te doesn't reflect poorly on you out of character in the same way that my main Rakka'li acting like a selfish jerk doesn't actually reflect poorly on me out of character. If it still bothers you despite considering that, then consider re-rolling to Keeper, as I haven't found a single promiscuous Keeper female in game.

Nimarhie · **09-18-2013, 05:31 PM**

Saikoray, who is this "we" you speak of? I'm not being sarcastic here... well not really anyway. There's a buttload of "we" in Japan that SE is catering too with this sorta thing... whatever that is. Remember, everyone playing this game outside of Japan are the secondary "we's", our opinions and what we want are of less concern than those in Japan.That's not intended to sound bitter or snarky, I'm just pointing it out.

Also Allgivenover makes a bunch of good points. I would also like to point out that Lost Springs in the Sagoli Desert has a whole village of Sunkeepers that aren't being portrayed as promiscuous (I think I saw one that looked like she was a hooker but thats it), in fact all of them were armoured and armed and several of them had the spoils of their hunt laying at their feet.

That doesn't mean that all Sunkeepers are badass epic hunters either.

K'nahli · **09-18-2013, 05:55 PM**

Having said that, one miqo'te asked her sibling when her next coupling was and another complained about the nuhn not fulfilling his duty. Yes, yes... I'm sure being limited to one male who obviously had a significant amount of females to get around to(specific only to Lost Springs) would leave one sexually frustrated in reality, but the fact it made it to the dialogue bubbles strikes me as something that was given emphasis to further reinforce the idea of all or at least one of the following:

Enhanced promiscuity among Seekers / Fan Service / Comic Relief

Off topic:
Having noticed that a lot of NPCs refer to miqote as "kittens", what is everyone's take on that? Personally I view it as a playful term that could be relatable to males calling females "sweetheart" or anything along those lines but does anyone see it as perhaps a simple phrase related to their characteristics, perhaps like... I dunno, calling a male "boy"?

I ask because I wanted the opinion of others just in case my miqo'te should be called it in RP. In the case of it being used perhaps sarcastically by someone who wasn't being friendly or just a complete jerk then I'd imagine my miqo'te would respond in annoyance to that, same way a girl might say something along the lines of:

"Don't call me sweetheart/honey"

Albeit, if people think its just almost like addressing one by their race then she would overlook it.

Nimarhie · **09-18-2013, 06:04 PM**

I think we need to stop trying to apply our morals and values onto a fictional race. Line between fantasy and reality and all that. And just because a race has a harem-type culture per tribe doesn't mean they are necessarily promiscuous otherwise.

I see just as many prostitutes of the other races as I do Miqote, not that I go around looking for the red-light districts in the villages and cities (queue all the "
suuuuuure" comments). lol

SessionZero · **09-18-2013, 06:04 PM**

Not going to read through 7 pages' worth of replies, so hopefully no one has said this yet, but there's always ONE race in every MMO like that. WoW: Draenei. GW2: Sylvari. SWTOR: Twi'lek. It's unavoidable.

Edit: Also this game is Japanese, so, you know, sexy catgirls.

Nimarhie · **09-18-2013, 06:06 PM**

The draenei were like that because the players made them like that... the lore behind them was holy do-gooders, not space-sluts. Night Elves were far more promiscuous in in-game lore as I recall... I remember there was two lesbian Nelfs at one outpost in Northrend (absolutely loved those two girls).

Exantra · **09-18-2013, 06:21 PM**

It never fails to become a contentious issue whenever it involves the obligatory "cute" race. It wouldn't surprise me if Square had their audience, particularly Eastern, in mind when designing these specific events that raises these hotly debated discussions. However, it's evident that the cats are represented on all ends of the spectrum; Y'shtola, the tribe down in Sangoli, the infamous Courtesan, guild masters. Personally I think the players reflect the sexual image more than Square Enix has implied in this game, or the previous, for that matter.

Lament · **09-18-2013, 06:24 PM**

I've no doubts that much of it is fanservice. However, it being fanservice doesn't exclude it from being part of the lore too.

I wouldn't call Sun Seekers promiscuous. Sex has a cultural role for them. Promiscuity is likely not a concept to them, because the ideal of having a single partner for a lifetime doesn't apply to their culture.

I figure Miqo'te prostitutes would be looked down on by other members of their race just like any other prostitute, but likely for completely different reasons. Instead of judging them for the sex itself, it'd likely be due to who it's with, and because it's not conductive to the continuation of the tribe.

Hell, they're likely to frown upon monogamous relationships for the same reason.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-18-2013, 06:43 PM**

(09-14-2013, 12:01 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 09:10 PM)Aysun Wrote: Here's the thing. This race is not ours. It is SE's. They can do what they want with it. The Miqo'tes are being represented how they SHOULD be represented. It's lore that many of them are like that. Seekers are whores, pirates, bar-wenches, fishers, dancers, adventurers, yellow-jackets, Maelstrom recruits, and sisters in the desert. That is what they are.

Something I've been seeing a lot lately has been the 'modifying' of a races' lore to suit peoples' tastes rather than working WITH the lore to create an interesting character. If you don't like the race's lore, don't play it. Don't try to make it something else because you like how catgirls look and you don't like how SE made them.

/endrant
While I agree with you for the most part, dismissing a critical discussion doesn't help anything. You can like something while being critical of it, and from where I'm standing that's all I see this thread doing.

But again, I do agree with your main point. I saw it in WoW with Blood Elves. Playing the mana addiction part was too "icky" for some so their Blood Elves were magically blue eyed and untainted. Then again, it's individual choice as to how you enjoy your RP.

That all said, considering some of the Miqo'te real life influences, the jokey portrayal of their sexuality comes across as a bit... ugh...

I'm surprised, first of all, that people are still going on about this! Not in a bad way, just a...surprised way.

Show Content

Spoiler Anyhow, yanno, about Blood Elves. Let's consider this for a moment-- Technically, Night Elves/High Elves/Blood Elves are magical creatures-- their eyes glow depending on what kind of magic they have in their bodies OR to what degree. Eye glow also occurs in 1. Draenei (who are also have a natural affinity for magic) and 2. Undead (including Death Knights and they should TECHNICALLY have the same eye glow, regardless of the fact that Sylvanas freed the Forsaken because they are both existing off of Lich magic). In lore, High Elf eyes range from blues to even violets and golds depending on their magic-type. Even Human mages reflect an eye glow while casting.

Let's move on to Blood Elves. SO, they started out drinking Arcane magic as Quel'dorei and their eyes were blue, predominantly, because they existed off that. Okay... Arcane magic is addictive-- All Quel'dorei are -still- addicted to Arcane magic. Alright. Fel magic is naturally -more- addictive and corrupting than Arcane magic. We know this from warlocks who had to create blood pacts with demons-- apparently after you took the blood more than once the pact was binding. Orcs also suffered from the taint by turning green though technically only the ones who -drank- the corrupted blood should have turned green, and those are, by no means, the entirety of the Horde. On the other hand, many Blood Elves didn't get a chance to take from the corrupted well with Kael'thas Sunstrider, their eyes turn green -only- from the radiation of the Fel stones that hold Silvermoon City up.

Then there're the Blood Knights. Naaru are natural embodiments of holy magic-- holy magic is literally what they are made of. Holy magic is also a natural purifier. It works not only on the undead of the Scourge but the armies of the Burning Legion as well. When those first Blood Knights sucked all the magic out of the Naaru-- why didn't their eyes turn gold? Why -shouldn't- their eyes turn gold? I mean, it stands to reason that if you can build a holy fortress in the middle of Scourge-infested or Legion-infested territory that if your entire body is suddenly filled with enough holy magic to -bend it and cast it at your opponents- then there should be enough to wash away that taint. And how do Blood Knights keep functioning with holy magic when they didn't have any affinity with it before then? As though their wealth of holy magic was suddenly limitless-- though they -could- be gleaning some from Shattrath where the Naaru congregated. Also, your eyes as a High Elf entering Silvermoon for the first time shouldn't just automatically turn green from the Fel magic there-- it would take a while for the passive exposure to start having an effect. Now that the Sunwell has been reclaimed and both Quel'dorei and Sin'dorei have access to it-- does one even -need- to go to Silvermoon? I imagine for those who didn't get much of a chance to lounge around their fair city and certainly didn't go drink from any corrupted wells, you probably don't have a ton of Fel coursing through your body. Your green glow might not exist, or it might not be strong enough to be noticeable.

High Elves still suffer a deteriorating addiction to magic. The only source they had to try and sate themselves before was to be granted access to the Night Elf moonwells-- and only Quel'dorei of particularly high status were granted that honor. Otherwise, they're forced to meditate to stave off their addiction (according to the table top game) and aside from that, where do they even get their magic? They -need- it. But the defining difference between High Elves and Blood Elves now is that High Elves -refuse- to reduce themselves to the level of draining magic from other living things.

Why is it, again, now that the Sunwell exists and all elves have access to it that Silvermoon is still only half reconstructed and the half that is constructed is tenuously held together by giant floating fel-stones?

I'm less concerned with people wanting eye glows of another color, since the only reason we have set colors to begin with is to really just define some characters from others via mechanics-- Look at Nelfs again with all males having golden eye glows when the books specifically state that 'only individuals who will accomplish feats of greatness' are born with gold eyes and some, like in the case of Malfurion, adapted them later... yet all males have them and no females. Sexist, much?-- and more concerned with why NO ONE. NO ONE.... EVER. ROLEPLAYS. THEIR. ADDICTION.

I have heard literally every excuse under the sun as to why so many Blood Elves and High Elves don't suffer withdrawals and yet do not deteriorate into Wretched. So many. I can't even recall more than three people I've ever met to mention that they had any issues.

So selective lore-usage definitely applies to them. That is, the majority of Belf/Helf RPers.

Night Elves, on another note, aren't necessarily promiscuous. What they are is long-lived with probably low gestational periods who went a very long time without most of their men. Night Elves, though it doesn't really seem it with Malfurion freaking Stormrage gallavanting about swinging his 'I art holier than thou' druid stick, is a predominantly matriarchal society where women are strong.

Draenei live -even longer- by most accounts. Up to the ????'s of age. Players made Night Elf females prone to being homosexual, which I can kind of see for -older- Night Elf women, and Draenei similarly. Though really, can I blame them? Draenei seem like one of the most open and accepting (their issues with Blood Elves not withstanding) and they know there's more to life than just breeding and honor. There's light and love-- why restrain yourself to your tentacle-faced men when there's plenty of other love to be had out there?

/endrant about WoW and how it makes Sio angry.

Blizzard has soooo much lore for Warcraft that is either inconsistent, unfinished, unpolished, or not reflected in the actual game. Many people kind of have to pick and choose what they use because there are -so- many loose ends-- THE FREAKING ADDICTION THING WITH HELF/BELFS DOES NOT COUNT-- so they do. While the same can kind of be applied to FFXIV, really, there's a basic structure to go off that doesn't bump into itself and twist weird knots with pitfalls and 'why is it again that I -have- to play a green orc?'s. In a sense, the lack of details thus far are actually kind of helpful because they leave things open to interpretation. Why bother sitting there and getting mad over it when at -least- they -give- something to go off of instead of letting you flail in the wind, trying desperately to make something make sense without being unreasonable? I dunno. I don't really get it.

As you said, it's really left up to how one wishes to RP. Seeing promiscuous Seekers as a 'joke' is -no where NEAR- as bad as the pointless easter eggs that laden WoW that you really can't do anything with except take them as a joke.

I am still waiting for the day that I see the Tauren Chieftains taken really seriously by an RPer. Considering they're a blatant in-game reflection of Blizzard people. And don't even get me started on the self-proclaimed king of Silvermoon who is based off a roleplayer...

We're going to keep picking and choosing the lore we acknowledge and more, we'll keep accentuating little things the make a case for the 'original-ness' of our characters. It's going to happen on until forever.

K'nahli · **09-18-2013, 06:50 PM**

(09-18-2013, 06:43 PM)Siobhain Wrote: I'm surprised, first of all, that people are still going on about this! Not in a bad way, just a...surprised way.

Heeee... every time I see this topic in the recent posts I die a little inside ;w; Go away topic! Let everything I have read here be false and just in my head!

Albeit, I ended up posting again in the end.

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Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes