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LeCard · **12-04-2013, 03:51 PM**

An idea occurs to me(if it hasn't already been done) It would be cool to gather all of the NPC names in different regions and mark what tribe they are from. It could make a nice map of Known regions for the tribes (or at least where some of their members have taken to living).

K'nahli · **12-04-2013, 04:01 PM**

(12-04-2013, 01:45 PM)LeCard Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 11:43 AM)K Wrote: We've been treating it as though there can be multiple tribes that can claim themselves as a 'K' clan(or any other for that matter) without having any association to us. After all, there are a number of miqo'te with K in their names that we don't know at all. I also recall a game master or someone saying some that some tribes can even adopt a second letter in the case of sub-clans.

For example; Y'shtola could become Ya'shtola or something.

I'm not sure what you would be looking for in terms of traits, but we have a set law and sanction system that everyone usually abides by. That and its assumed that most of the tribe is proficient with spears, though not everyone of course. My character favours archery for example, while K'ILE IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS AND ISN'T WORTHY ENOUGH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH K'THALEN'S BLOODLINE.

As to the second letter being added to a clan, that is in referance to a Tia who goes off and founds their own Tribe. They would use the original Tribe letter(but because they did not earn their own branch tribe) They would have to add a second letter to their name to signify the NEW tribe. So if say Y'shtola tia wanted to become a nuhn and didn't want to do the hard work of securing a new hunting ground they could split off with any willing females and start their own tribe. This tribe would then have two letters in front of their name starting with Y and the letter of the new Nuhn's choosing.

So, Say Y'shtola really likes the letter U (for whatever odd reason you can think of) they would then pick to have their new tribe be named Yu'xxxxx.

However, if the Tia (Y'shtola) does some exemplary work and gains control of a new hunting ground for the Tribe they would be granted Nuhn status and the rights to that land for their own sub-set of the tribe. This would mean that they get to have their own tribe AND get to keep their name as is without adding a second letter.

Another important point from the Lore forums is that these new tribes are often very short lived. So while they may stick around for a generation or two, they generally dye off before they can become large enough to continue the new double letter line.
(My theory on this is that even if the females do stick around, the low male birth rate may mean that the new Nuhn never has a male heir, and thus the clan dies with them. Or they have one male heir, but that male never has a male child. )

Ohh, I see. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

Xha'li Moui · **12-04-2013, 04:17 PM**

(12-04-2013, 02:35 PM)C Wrote: C'io Behkt did a nice write up for a fewÂ Coeurl tribe villagesÂ which I've been basing C'kayah's sept on, you might want to add that in. She speculates about a few common cultural attributes, at least among the three villages in her write up.

I'm going to jump on a modest soap box and propose a terminology change, since different people are tossing around the word "tribe" and using it to mean anything from the entire letter tribe down to a single breeding group. My suggestion is that "tribe" refers to the letter tribe only, and that smaller sub-groups have different terms - I'm not fond of "sub-tribe", because it's vague enough to cover anything down to and including a breeding group.

I'd suggest the word "sept" to cover both a tribal village (in the case of settled tribes) and a big nomadic unit within a tribe. The key with it is that the sept is culturally unified, and it's bigger than a single breeding group.

Breeding groups, of course, can then simply be "breeding groups".

So you'd have a hierarchy of terms like this: Tribe -> Sept -> Breeding group.

So, in C'kayah's case, he was born from C'xin Nunh's breeding group. That group was part of a larger Coeurl village, so that village is his sept. That sept, combined with all the other Coeurl septs, makes up the Coeurl tribe as a whole.

You wouldn't have to live with your sept to be part of it, of course. Think of the sept as an extended family. So if your Miqo'te takes part in a breeding group that opens up a new hunting area, and lives isolated from anyone else, they're still part of a sept. If your female Miqo'te joins a breeding group from another sept, they'd effectively be marrying into that new sept. They might talk about their new and old septs the same way that we talk about our families and the families we marry into.

So addapting this for Keepers "tribe" would become the maternal surname, sept could represent villages or wandering groups, and breeding groups would be all the females who 'share' a male?

So in this case Xha'li Moui would be from the Moui tribe, Coetheras Foothill sept, and one of only 4 in the K'zhuzu breeding group along with, Xha'a, Xha'to, and Xha herself.

Jomoru · **12-04-2013, 05:02 PM**

(12-04-2013, 04:17 PM)Xha Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 02:35 PM)C Wrote: C'io Behkt did a nice write up for a fewÂ Coeurl tribe villagesÂ which I've been basing C'kayah's sept on, you might want to add that in. She speculates about a few common cultural attributes, at least among the three villages in her write up.

I'm going to jump on a modest soap box and propose a terminology change, since different people are tossing around the word "tribe" and using it to mean anything from the entire letter tribe down to a single breeding group. My suggestion is that "tribe" refers to the letter tribe only, and that smaller sub-groups have different terms - I'm not fond of "sub-tribe", because it's vague enough to cover anything down to and including a breeding group.

I'd suggest the word "sept" to cover both a tribal village (in the case of settled tribes) and a big nomadic unit within a tribe. The key with it is that the sept is culturally unified, and it's bigger than a single breeding group.

Breeding groups, of course, can then simply be "breeding groups".

So you'd have a hierarchy of terms like this: Tribe -> Sept -> Breeding group.

So, in C'kayah's case, he was born from C'xin Nunh's breeding group. That group was part of a larger Coeurl village, so that village is his sept. That sept, combined with all the other Coeurl septs, makes up the Coeurl tribe as a whole.

You wouldn't have to live with your sept to be part of it, of course. Think of the sept as an extended family. So if your Miqo'te takes part in a breeding group that opens up a new hunting area, and lives isolated from anyone else, they're still part of a sept. If your female Miqo'te joins a breeding group from another sept, they'd effectively be marrying into that new sept. They might talk about their new and old septs the same way that we talk about our families and the families we marry into.

So addapting this for Keepers "tribe" would become the maternal surname, sept could represent villages or wandering groups, and breeding groups would be all the females who 'share' a male?

So in this case Xha'li Moui would be from the Moui tribe, Coetheras Foothill sept, and one of only 4 in the K'zhuzu breeding group along with, Xha'a, Xha'to, and Xha herself.

Why would males have anything to do with it? The family is built around the female, her brother is part of her family. Just because he goes off and has sex with someone doesn't mean thing. That child would in fact not be family.

Clover · **12-04-2013, 05:02 PM**

(12-04-2013, 02:12 PM)K Wrote: I really meant if I were already a main clan member, but I'm just not listed as such currently as she has no background/story written yet? It's hard to describe. Though as you've said, there could be alternate methods of entry to the clan, such as "adoption".

Yes! Join us!
We can fit you in without trouble, I'm sure. I've been thinking about creating another K member myself, and it should be as simple as imagining that he's been always there, doing his thing.

C'kayah Polaali · **12-04-2013, 06:25 PM**

(12-04-2013, 04:17 PM)Xha Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 02:35 PM)C Wrote: (some stuff)

So addapting this for Keepers "tribe" would become the maternal surname, sept could represent villages or wandering groups, and breeding groups would be all the females who 'share' a male?

So in this case Xha'li Moui would be from the Moui tribe, Coetheras Foothill sept, and one of only 4 in the K'zhuzu breeding group along with, Xha'a, Xha'to, and Xha herself.

I don't think you'd want to adapt this for Keepers. It makes sense for Seekers, since they don't have traditional families and instead have this tripartite division from tribe->sept->breeding group. Keepers, on the other hand, seem to focus solely on their families or breeding groups, and may or may not have tribes. I'd probably argue that you could just say "family" for Keepers.

Which is interesting in and of itself. Now, I don't play a Keeper, so I haven't really read up on Keeper culture the way I've tried to do for Seeker culture, but this Miqo'te naming conventions articleÂ has an interesting bit:

Quote:The Keepers of the Moon lead more solitary lives, rarely forming communities of more than two or three families. Therefore, a tribal letter is not assigned to the names.

It doesn't come out and say that they don't have tribes, but at the very least it strongly implies that they either a) don't have tribes or b) their tribes aren't very important to them.

Jomoru · **12-04-2013, 07:17 PM**

(12-04-2013, 06:25 PM)C Wrote: It doesn't come out and say that they don't have tribes, but at the very least it strongly implies that they either a) don't have tribes or b) their tribes aren't very important to them.

Depends what you mean by tribe I read that as there's nothing above local clans/villages/bands while the Seekers have group equivalents to say the Cherokee or Apache

N'taeyl · **12-04-2013, 11:19 PM**

If I understand this thread correctly, we're posting tribes that we brilliant roleplayers set up?Â If so, I can add the (apparently only tribe in existance) Aldgoat name on there.Â There's only two of us that actually belong to it, some details worked out but nothing super extensive.Â But we exist!Â I swear there's only like three Aldgoat players on the damn server.Â But that's okayyy, the tribe I have in mind is a little small anyway.

Kyrio Lamansque · **12-04-2013, 11:33 PM**

Concerning the double-letter line and their demise. A story I was playing with a character named Ku'sar (Tribe name was Ya'shir, but that is a different story altogether) on Gilgamesh.. since the sept CAN be rather small, its easy for something like a roving band of X monster to take out the tribe. Or an encounter with a beastman raiding party would do the same. So while yes, a low male birthrate can kill a double-letter line, but there's a lot other things that can bring it down as well. And if there are two or three survivors after said band of Aman'jaa runs roughshod over the Ya sept, Well, that's where we have intriguing story to play out.

Aexis · **12-04-2013, 11:51 PM**

This looks to be a wonderful initiative!

In setting up the FC thast I've been slowly working on I've used thee same idea of tribe -> sept.Â My Sunchaser sept of the Zu are further broken down into prides.

Any wishing to read a tale about their background can find it here:

The People of the Wheel and Sun

Anything that I might be able to contribute in writing, just let me know.

Knight Kat · **12-05-2013, 01:07 AM**

(12-04-2013, 07:17 PM)Jomoru Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 06:25 PM)C Wrote: It doesn't come out and say that they don't have tribes, but at the very least it strongly implies that they either a) don't have tribes or b) their tribes aren't very important to them.

Depends what you mean by tribe I read that as there's nothing above local clans/villages/bands while the Seekers have group equivalents to say the Cherokee or Apache

I believe you both have a point. They seem to imply that Keepers are more clan-like. And a Keeper clan is made of 2 to 3 families. I guess it could be possible to classify a few families as a tribe? I don't know. I am not familiar with the true definition of tribe.

For Keepers, it would be clan/tribe then family within the clan/tribe as their means of identification.

For example: Kiht Jakkya is part of the Jakkya family within the Shriekshroom Clan. The clan is a small two-family clan.

Also, Keeper names are said to be very old. "It is said that some of these surnames have survived since the First Astral Era." -HRPC Wiki. If this is the case then there are likely many Keepers who share the same surname, but aren't part of the same immediate family or clan. The surname would simply indicate a shared, possibly ancient, ancestry.

Jomoru · **12-05-2013, 01:16 AM**

(12-05-2013, 01:07 AM)Knight Kat Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 07:17 PM)Jomoru Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 06:25 PM)C Wrote: It doesn't come out and say that they don't have tribes, but at the very least it strongly implies that they either a) don't have tribes or b) their tribes aren't very important to them.

Depends what you mean by tribe I read that as there's nothing above local clans/villages/bands while the Seekers have group equivalents to say the Cherokee or Apache

I believe you both have a point. They seem to imply that Keepers are more clan-like. And a Keeper clan is made of 2 to 3 families. I guess it could be possible to classify a few families as a tribe? I don't know. I am not familiar with the true definition of tribe.

Tribe can mean many things it can be a broad ethnicity like the Cherokee or it can be the small village and everyone in it.

C'kayah Polaali · **12-05-2013, 03:37 AM**

(12-05-2013, 01:07 AM)Knight Kat Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 07:17 PM)Jomoru Wrote:
(12-04-2013, 06:25 PM)C Wrote: It doesn't come out and say that they don't have tribes, but at the very least it strongly implies that they either a) don't have tribes or b) their tribes aren't very important to them.

Depends what you mean by tribe I read that as there's nothing above local clans/villages/bands while the Seekers have group equivalents to say the Cherokee or Apache

I believe you both have a point. They seem to imply that Keepers are more clan-like. And a Keeper clan is made of 2 to 3 families. I guess it could be possible to classify a few families as a tribe? I don't know. I am not familiar with the true definition of tribe.

I'm not an anthropologist, but I don't think there's a really good formal definition of "tribe", so I don't know if it makes sense to talk about the true definition of the word.

I personally like the idea of calling groups of Keeper families "clans" instead of "tribes", both because Keepers do seem more clannish than Seekers and because I like having a different word to refer to the (very distinctly different) Keeper social structure than the words used for Seeker social structures.

Jomoru · **12-05-2013, 04:48 AM**

(12-05-2013, 03:37 AM)C Wrote: I personally like the idea of calling groups of Keeper families "clans" instead of "tribes", both because Keepers do seem more clannish than Seekers and because I like having a different word to refer to the (very distinctly different) Keeper social structure than the words used for Seeker social structures.

Problem is that got used for the Seeker/Keeper break.

Maqali Qulaan · **12-05-2013, 07:48 AM**

(12-04-2013, 11:51 PM)Aexis Wrote: This looks to be a wonderful initiative!

In setting up the FC thast I've been slowly working on I've used thee same idea of tribe -> sept.Â My Sunchaser sept of the Zu are further broken down into prides.

Any wishing to read a tale about their background can find it here:

The People of the Wheel and Sun

Anything that I might be able to contribute in writing, just let me know.

Another Zu tribe person! *dies of shock* Bouncy

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