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LiadansWhisper · **12-21-2013, 09:17 PM**

This was brought up in the Female Miqo'te thread found here:Â http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=5797

(12-21-2013, 12:17 PM)Nebbs Wrote: I think from all this maybe there is something about thread subject marking.

Not saying they apply to this thread but somthing might.

[Adult]
[ERP]
[Graphic]
[Violence]
[~Pegi 18]

I think it's probably a good idea to label actual RP threads (i.e. forum RP, backgrounds that are especially violent or graphic, etc) with the labels, but I'm not sure that it should or needs to be used for threads used to recruit players for in-world RP.

What are your thoughts on this?

Twinflame · **12-21-2013, 10:26 PM**

I think if you started doing this then the leadership of the RPC would need to pass judgement on whether they wanted threads tagged [ERP] on here in the first place. Besides that point, I tend to put trigger and content warnings on my threads in the first place. Violence is assumed because of the genre of the game, but for any kind of sexual content or icky gore (and especially for sexual violence, even if it's only implied), it's just common courtesy and good sense to tag that. Shouldn't really need a policy.

Naunet · **12-21-2013, 10:26 PM**

You can't put me in a box!

Common sense, people. If your story has triggering material (such as rape or extreme violence or discussion of/actions of suicide), it's generally thoughtful to put up warnings, either in the title or before the text or both.

Other than that, it's not necessary. And I certainly hope this forum doesn't allow the posting of pornography. xD

[edit] Lol. The Twinaunet hivemind strikes again.

Ildur · **12-21-2013, 11:21 PM**

I agree with the use of tags, but we only need these:

Quote:[Made by Ildur]
[Everything Else]

Clearly.

***Maril*** · **12-22-2013, 03:23 PM**

I love tags! But for the purpose of hiding graphical/mature content, I would rather people used the spoiler function where you have to click a button to show what is hidden. Then it is properly peoples own fault if they bypass a warning and get offended.

C'kayah Polaali · **12-22-2013, 03:50 PM**

It's funny, in a not-so-funny sort of way, that the issue of tagging threads came up because of the suggestion of erotic purpose in a thread. Meanwhile, we've had threads down in Town Square with detailed depictions of murder, theft, torture, vengeance and slavery, none of which prompted this discussion.

There's a quote from George RR Martin that I think is really appropriate here:

Quote:â€œI can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, itâ€™s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.â€

Sil'tel Ferima · **12-22-2013, 07:40 PM**

C'kayah, I couldn't nod my head any harder to that statement about the Town Square posts, and I believe there's a valid point to be explored here;

I've read through the plethora of posts regarding the whole ERP fiasco, the Miqo'te Slavery thread, etc. and I haven't once commented because I just didn't think it was an issue worth discussing beyond "RP how ya want to, live and let live." but it appears that the more people have discussed it, the bigger the issue it's become. And now the labelling of threads? This, to me, feels very much like a reaction based on a narrow-minded precedence. Let me give you an example:

Someone makes a sword, uses it to go out and slay all manner of beasties and nasty things. Everyone knows what the sword is and what it does. It becomes a prolific tool.
Now someone uses a sword to slay someone else. Scandal, understandably. The person is vilified and the sword is now feared for it's potential use against another person.
Despite the long history of usefulness and versatility the sword has maintained, it's now seen as something potentially dangerous, even though it is merely a tool and the fault lay with the vast minority of people who would exploit it. So now it's required that only registered people may carry swords.
Registered people use these swords for killing beasties and nasty things and people are placated because that should technically mean only responsible people should be wielding them. The unregistered miss out and must rely on people who can use a sword rather than utilizing one themselves.
A registered person uses a sword to slay someone else. Scandal again, because someone who was supposed to be responsible with a sword has betrayed the trust of the people. The person's fault, but the tool again is vilified and as a result, now it is required that swords be outlawed entirely due to the fact that someone could potentially use it to slay another person.
Now no one has access to a sword, but the people who would abuse them are still out there. No fault lay with the tool, but now through narrow thinking everyone who could have benefited from it's use has to go without.

I realise it it takes some degree of lateral thinking to equate that analogy to this situation, but the point I'm trying to get across is that this idea of labelling threads has only come around, I suspect, because people have been discussing it far too much and have hyped up what was a small issue into something that needs immediate and extreme response.

Why now, not in response to the threads in the Town Square? I may be out of line for suggesting thing, but I heavily suspect it is because of the quality of the content delivered. When something is written out for us in literate fashion, we tend to give it some allowance despite the graphic or shocking depiction of events therein. In this case, with RP, it requires the person observing to appreciate that other people are involved, the story has not been predetermined and cannot be guaranteed as a quality piece of literacy. The proposition of an unknown is always more disturbing than a history of what has already happened. Another small example:

"Rohan Balthev's life has been a disturbing path, consisting of frequent raping, torturing, and slavery of young women."
or
"I'm looking for someone to be a captive young woman to my character, Rohan Balthev. Rape, torture and slavery should be expected."

Which brings up the most red flags in your mind? Which seems immediately the most offensive?

Naunet · **12-22-2013, 09:17 PM**

(12-22-2013, 07:40 PM)Sil Wrote: Why now, not in response to the threads in the Town Square?Â

Because no one made a thread about labels before now...?

The OP asked about labels, so I gave my thoughts. I don't think it's too much to ask someone to put a label on triggering material (rape/sexual violence, suicide, other mental health issues including eating disorders). I'm not reacting to the whole "erp fiasco" in any way, shape, or form.

***Maril*** · **12-22-2013, 09:40 PM**

(12-22-2013, 03:50 PM)C Wrote: It's funny, in a not-so-funny sort of way, that the issue of tagging threads came up because of the suggestion of erotic purpose in a thread. Meanwhile, we've had threads down in Town Square with detailed depictions of murder, theft, torture, vengeance and slavery, none of which prompted this discussion.

There's a quote from George RR Martin that I think is really appropriate here:

Quote:â€œI can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, itâ€™s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.â€

Indeed. On my community's forum, we require anything concerning sensitive topics (so all of what you mentioned and then some) are wrapped in spoiler-tags, not just exclusively sex. Heck, I'm the type of person who'd rather read an erotic novel than an intense description of someone smashing a brain.. And with the spoiler hiding things, we also do not hinder people's creative abilities to have exactly what they want happening in their rp-related stories.

Nebbs · **12-22-2013, 10:07 PM**

I had written a fair bit but I felt there was one thing that probably needed adding hear.

The game is for 12 and upÂ 16 and up (edit: seems they changed it at release)
This forum is for 13 and up

Show Content

So by the rule of the forum no content should be posted here that is not suited to 12/13 year olds.

You can leave this to "Reader Beware" and rely on members to feedback/complain, or you can tag for subject. The choice is down to the person writing the thread.

PersonaltyÂ I think it is nice to say if your subject contains things that could be an issue for some. That way they don't have to read to find out.

LiadansWhisper · **12-22-2013, 10:57 PM**

A note: My copy of the game tells me the game is rated PEGI-16, which means it's designed to be suitable for children ages 16 and over. Â That's a bit different than 12, though in the US that is not considered "adult," either.

Nebbs · **12-22-2013, 11:05 PM**

(12-22-2013, 10:57 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: A note: My copy of the game tells me the game is rated PEGI-16, which means it's designed to be suitable for children ages 16 and over. Â That's a bit different than 12, though in the US that is not considered "adult," either.

Seems they upped it at launch to 16.

Xenedra · **12-23-2013, 01:09 AM**

(12-22-2013, 10:07 PM)Nebbs Wrote: 2. Rated Teen/Mature:Â The rating system for these boards is somewhere between Teen and Mature. That being said, erotic sexual content is strictly prohibited here. While some degree of violence, sexual language, and profanity is allowed, try to keep it clean overall. Please use common sense in determining what is appropriate and what isn'Â€Â™t. Keep in mind that the age group of posters could potentially range anywhere between 13-60+. The rating system applies to all content on these boards, including avatars and signatures. Content deemed inappropriate will be removed by moderators and/or administrators.Â

^This. We here have no issue with whatever our users want to rp, but some of it you just can't display here. I know the vast majority of players here have individual forums they visit for their own linkshell/free company communities and perhaps those are better places for such content if it's allowed there.

Twinflame · **12-23-2013, 06:37 PM**

(12-22-2013, 07:40 PM)Sil Wrote: I realise it it takes some degree of lateral thinking to equate that analogy to this situation, but the point I'm trying to get across is that this idea of labelling threads has only come around, I suspect, because people have been discussing it far too much and have hyped up what was a small issue into something that needs immediate and extreme response.

Tagging threads is in no way an extreme response; it's just common courtesy. Expecting others to tag threads with potentially offensive content is no different than expecting the host of a party to let you know that beverages are caffeinated or alcoholic before sticking them in your hands. It's extremely simple.

As far as the rape and whatnot go, some people are extremely uncomfortable with RPing in a canon where this sort of thing happens, or is even mentioned, and that's not really something they need to explain or give a reason for. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where it would be acceptable to expose someone to a story including rape when that person isn't comfortable with it. It's extremely rude. The same goes for other commonly disturbing themes like slavery, torture, mental illness, incest, or even realistic depictions of abusive relationships that some might find a bit too close to home.

I've written some pretty violent RP on this site, but I've assumed it's acceptable because of the environment both here and in-game. If it turned out I had offended someone, I would apologize, because I would have done something rude.

Fates Skein · **12-24-2013, 03:50 PM**

The "issue" of tagging/not-tagging has been debated quite a bit in the RP groups that I've been a part of. How tagging posts usually gets brought up is like this:
I read something, it has subject that disturbs me. Â Discussion of rape/child abuse/domestic violence/ etc.

I then ask the person writing it (or all people that contribute to the site) to please start tagging things.

People say "I don't get the big deal, why should we have to tag, the site doesn't have any rules about it!"

I sigh and stop reading the site entirely.

A very smart person once said, in relation to tagging potential trigger warnings:

If you are standing on my foot and I ask you to please stop because you are hurting me, the correct response is "Oh! Â Sorry!" and to move your foot. Â It is not "My foot has every right to be there, I don't know why you're being so sensitive!"

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