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Syl Souther · **01-30-2014, 07:34 PM**

(01-30-2014, 07:30 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 07:08 PM)R Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:48 PM)R Wrote: And that's why I said FIRST that it's rude as hell to enter into an intense rp without a tell. If that tell doesn't happen and you don't give the OK for that character to enter the rp... then forget it. Ignore the jerk.

But once you agree to let that person join your rp, you agree to respect that person's rp. Again, it isn't outrageous to think that a lawman should be able to arrest your character.

I think you're putting a lot into the thought of being arrested. There's a big difference between being arrested... being imprisoned (for short/long period of time)... and being killed.

I would agree about this... but the problem was that it was happening at like 1:15am. The other character said essentially, well you should be in jail at least a few hours. If it was like 8pm I wouldn't care, I'd have plenty of time to figure out what is going on, we could discuss it. However they wanted to end it with my character in jail, which in order to respect, I would have to refrain from any other RP stuff until they decided to log on and finish the RP tomorrow. I didn't feel like doing that, and I wanted to resolve the issue to some degree before I went to bed so I wouldn't have to sit around all day tomorrow waiting to see if this other person would actually log on.

So it wasn't just the arrest (I let her arrest me), but also because I wanted some sort of resolution that could happen in like 30 minutes, (C and I had already been RPing for like 4 hours) so I could go to bed . To me thats another reason why you should ask before you do something crazy, people might be trying to wrap something up because of their real life schedule.

So the problem wasn't that you were being arrested/led away and you didn't want to be... it was because you needed to go to bed? And didn't want to be stuck out of rp the next day?

I feel like you are kind of misrepresenting what I said. It was a mix of various things. In the end I don't feel like the player has to explain their internal reasoning for why they make RP decisions. Yes, I understand that you think I should have gone along with it, I'm not saying someone is wrong if they do. I just think that if you are the one who walks up with no OOC contact, and you do something like arrest someones char, when they finally do contact you OOC saying, "Can we figure out a way to resolve this soon, because I want to go to bed", you answer probably shouldn't be "No".

I feel like that post has kind of a malignant tone, like it's somehow wrong of me to to shift RP based on OOC factors. Like hey, people gotta sleep, if I'm about to go to sleep and someone walks up and stabs me, I'm probably just going to ignore them, or say ((I'm OOC)) because I don't have time to deal with it. There were a whole variety of reasons why I didn't want to end that night arrested, but they don't really matter.

I would prefer if we didn't sort of nitpick the details and more focus on the overarching question. Because when people sort of call me out for stuff I did, I feel the need to defend myself, and the other person isn't here to defend themselves.

The overall question is really about what rights does a walk up RPer have, and what responsibilities do they have to the person they are walking up to. I'm a huge walk-up RPer, I know I've approached your character quite a few times R'ivke, and I'm sure I am guilty of many of the things we've talked about in this thread. I'd like for this to be more of a discussion of best practices and guidelines rather than nitpicking a specific situation.

Â
You're right. I don't mean any hard feelings. There's a lot of stuff being talked about in this thread and I heard quite a bit about last night's rp situation too, so I meant that as a clarification.

Aldotsk · **01-30-2014, 07:48 PM**

People should hold their session and do it next day if one has to go IRL wise. Just like how there is always a new episode of The Days of Our Lives while it holds off during the tense events at the end of episode.

McBeefâ„¢ · **01-30-2014, 07:59 PM**

On a side note I just want to say that the whole scene itself was a blast, including the parts played by the Flames who walked up. I had no issues rolling with whatever people said, the only hiccup came when we left the zone for a moment and spoke OOC. It still ended up great, but I wished we could have avoided the misunderstanding that happened. I made this thread not so I could see if I was wrong or right, but to see what I could do to prevent a similar situation in the future, and/or not cause a similar situation when I do walkup RP. As I said before I respect the other player quite a lot, but I think our egos just sort of clashed when we tried to hash out what would happen next OOC.

Here is a screenshot of the scene by the way, in the midst of the confrontation.
[Image: pM58P4Ml.jpg]

(It was so cool! Click here for big)

Val · **01-30-2014, 08:05 PM**

I'm personally more of a free form RPer. In my opinion, if my characters are ignorant enough to talk about these things in public, then they deserve to be caught if they are caught. Val would never openly discuss sensitive information like that, especially talking about running around and killing someone or something like that in the midst of the city.

That being said, I'm not saying you shouldn't do what others have suggested. After all, it's your story. I just don't quite see the point of RPing publicly when someone isn't allowing other people to walk up and freely effect the roleplay going on.

That all being said, I'm glad everything got resolved! I think my suggestion would be to message the others if you insist on RPing publicly and telling them that you have a certain idea in mind with the story and that, if they want to be involved, they could but only under those circumstances--assuming you want them involved to begin with.

McBeefâ„¢ · **01-30-2014, 08:11 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:05 PM)Val Wrote: I'm personally more of a free form RPer. In my opinion, if my characters are ignorant enough to talk about these things in public, then they deserve to be caught if they are caught. Val would never openly discuss sensitive information like that, especially talking about running around and killing someone or something like that in the midst of the city.

That being said, I'm not saying you shouldn't do what others have suggested. After all, it's your story. I just don't quite see the point of RPing publicly when someone isn't allowing other people to walk up and freely effect the roleplay going on.

A small logistical problem with this, the distance you can hear /say at in this game is quite large. And most of the time incredibly unrealistic. For example you could be in the middle of the Quicksand, with 50 people in the room all talking, and you can hear /say from across the room. Clearly that would be impossible to hear in a normal setting. In an actual crowded bar, you can't hear conversations 3 or 4 stools down, let alone ones occurring on tables across the room.

Add on to that the fact that volumes differ, and that voice is variable. What if someone says at the start of the conversation, "/em speaks in a low, quiet voice" someone 10-15 feet away shouldn't be able to hear you.

I have zero problem with the fact that the person confronted us. What I will say though is it's way more complicated than if /say shows up on your screen then your character can hear it.

Kage · **01-30-2014, 08:12 PM**

Since mostÂ all of the RP I've done has been my being introduced to it, if I were ever to walk up I would try to send a tell or /say (( )) what my intentions may be. Otherwise I wouldn't tell someone that this is how it will be done when it's over someone else's character without some sort of compromise that we could both decide worked for us. I don't want anyone to tell me that X and Y will be done to my character and I'm sure others would feel the same.

Edit: Speaking of the range of /say, I've overheard RP through the doors while standing sort of in the middle of Quicksand. That's a little unreasonable too. The range of /say is a little ridiculous sometimes because in my mind that sort of range is usually a shout or raised voice

Val · **01-30-2014, 08:13 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:11 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 08:05 PM)Val Wrote: I'm personally more of a free form RPer. In my opinion, if my characters are ignorant enough to talk about these things in public, then they deserve to be caught if they are caught. Val would never openly discuss sensitive information like that, especially talking about running around and killing someone or something like that in the midst of the city.

That being said, I'm not saying you shouldn't do what others have suggested. After all, it's your story. I just don't quite see the point of RPing publicly when someone isn't allowing other people to walk up and freely effect the roleplay going on.

A small logistical problem with this, the distance you can hear /say at in this game is quite large. And most of the time incredibly unrealistic. For example you could be in the middle of the Quicksand, with 50 people in the room all talking, and you can hear /say from across the room. Clearly that would be impossible to hear in a normal setting. In an actual crowded bar, you can't hear conversations 3 or 4 stools down, let alone ones occurring on tables across the room.

Add on to that the fact that volumes differ, and that voice is variable. What if someone says at the start of the conversation, "/em speaks in a low, quiet voice" someone 10-15 feet away shouldn't be able to hear you.

I have zero problem with the fact that the person confronted us. What I will say though is it's way more complicated than if /say shows up on your screen then your character can hear it.

Oh I TOTALLY agree with that. If my character's across the room from someone, even though I can SEE what they're saying, I won't assume that Val can hear it, depending on how packed the place is at the time and whether or not they made effort to keep their voice low.Â

Again, I agree with you entirely =) And a lot of times I don't allow Val to interact with others because he's too focused on something else and doesn't quite hear what's being said to him.

Also, it's always annoyed me when Val says something and someone on the other side of the wall hears it, walks around and inside the building, and comments on it.

FreelanceWizard · **01-30-2014, 08:17 PM**

(01-30-2014, 07:30 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: The overall question is really about what rights does a walk up RPer have, and what responsibilities do they have to the person they are walking up to.

IMO, they have the right to RP with you if you're in a public locale (and if you're in a notably public location and RPing a private scene, you're being bad), and the responsibility to request your consent if they intend to do anything more than just talk. Of course, in my mind, those are the same rules that everyone should play by, whether they're my best friend or a random RPer. The why is simple: no one can actually do anything to your character without your consent, and you can always leave if you disagree with how a scene is going. So, in addition to being polite and respectful, asking for consent is the only way to ensure that what you want to have happen in a scene will actually happen. Smile

Does that mean I don't think a character should be able to walk up and threaten (or attempt) arrest if you're discussing criminal activities publicly? Certainly not. In my mind, if you RP in a clearly public area, you need to be doing it in /say and you need to accept that others may get involved. However, before anyone tries to actually impact your character with anything other than words, they do need to request your consent beforehand.

Renault Delumiere · **01-30-2014, 08:31 PM**

As a villain RPer myself, I've gotta say I agree with Augustine. You dug your own grave on this one. If your character is stupid enough to speak about illegal activities just outside the Quicksand, in not enough of a code that it could be considered anything else, you've fucked up IC and probably deserve the consequences.

If you don't want others to get involved, just /em that you are whispering or something, then speak in /tell or /p.

Also, the Immortal Flames can't arrest you, that's the Brass Blades' work.

SO HAH

Gharen · **01-30-2014, 08:41 PM**

It's been said for the most part, but inserting yourself into someone's RP, is one thing. Imposing your will upon another character in such away that it affects them permanently (i.e. Death) or in ways that make you feel uncomfortable without their consent is god-moding.

Going to use Val as an example =P

"Gharen Wolfsong throws a left hook, the punch lands firmly on Val Nunh's nose with a satisfying crunch, breaking it."

This is an example of me imposing my will upon Val's Character in a couple of ways. I've decided that I've hit him, taking away his ability to dictate whether his character dodges or not and second I've decided for him that I've broken his nose.

So by taking away your choice in the matter, this individual was imposing their will upon you and the individual with you, while things worked out in the end you have the right to say "No."

Communication and permission is key.

Val · **01-30-2014, 08:51 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:41 PM)Gharen Wrote: It's been said for the most part, but inserting yourself into someone's RP, is one thing. Imposing your will upon another character in such away that it affects them permanently (i.e. Death) or in ways that make you feel uncomfortable without their consent is god-moding.

Going to use Val as an example =P

"Gharen Wolfsong throws a left hook, the punch lands firmly on Val Nunh's nose with a satisfying crunch, breaking it."

This is an example of me imposing my will upon Val's Character in a couple of ways. I've decided that I've hit him, taking away his ability to dictate whether his character dodges or not and second I've decided for him that I've broken his nose.

So by taking away your choice in the matter, this individual was imposing their will upon you and the individual with you, while things worked out in the end you have the right to say "No."

Communication and permission is key.

Gee, thanks Gharen!

Aside from Val getting knocked out, I will say I thoroughly agree with it. And yes, one certainly should have attempted to arrest rather than just arrest you. Granted, after talking in public about it, I'd imagine the arrest would have been attempted and your character would have tried to run/escape or something.Â

I just can't really fathom two characters talking about such things in public, even in a hushed voice or tone, and not expect someone to overhear or react. Yeah, he probably should have asked before moving in to do it, but.. some people come from different backgrounds. Back in other games, people Roleplayed militant guilds that would police streets and would often attack or try to stop individuals that were doing wrong. After all, all of our characters create a living, breathing world for us to interact and immerse ourselves in. Not expecting to be reprimanded when speaking about such things in public kinda breaks that immersion.Â

If an evil guild or group is going to do evil things and don't want people to ever know about or catch them, why RP in game in the first place? Same goes for a mercenary that does illegal things and whatnot. Why even RP in game when you aren't willing to allow the character to receive the consequences for his actions?

C'kayah Polaali · **01-30-2014, 08:52 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:31 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: As a villain RPer myself, I've gotta say I agree with Augustine. You dug your own grave on this one. If your character is stupid enough to speak about illegal activities just outside the Quicksand, in not enough of a code that it could be considered anything else, you've fucked up IC and probably deserve the consequences.

Just as a point of correction:

C'kayah admitted to breaking the law, and I'm fine with all the consequences that came out of that (including his death at the hands of a couple of overzealous Flames).

Natalie's character was fighting with him when the same overzealous Flames arrested her. Her issue with this whole thing is that she was effectively asked to surrender agency of her character because of that. That's really the sole point of contention here.

C'kayah Polaali · **01-30-2014, 08:55 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:51 PM)Val Wrote: I just can't really fathom two characters talking about such things in public, even in a hushed voice or tone, and not expect someone to overhear or react.Â

Again, the whole reason I RPed this in /say instead of /tell was so that people could react. The reaction of the other players isn't an issue here.

Val · **01-30-2014, 09:00 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:55 PM)C Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 08:51 PM)Val Wrote: I just can't really fathom two characters talking about such things in public, even in a hushed voice or tone, and not expect someone to overhear or react.Â
Again, the whole reason I RPed this in /say instead of /tell was so that people could react. The reaction of the other players isn't an issue here.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was accusing either of you of that! I was just making a statement =)

In those times when someone was jailed, usually they were broken out or escaped or whatever in a few days time, depending. It also makes for entertaining RP and character development! After, she hadn't actually COMMITTED a crime from what I could tell. She was in the midst of inner turmoil about making an either ethical or unethical choice. That alone could take the RP quite far!

Renault Delumiere · **01-30-2014, 09:14 PM**

(01-30-2014, 08:52 PM)C Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 08:31 PM)Renault Delumiere Wrote: As a villain RPer myself, I've gotta say I agree with Augustine. You dug your own grave on this one. If your character is stupid enough to speak about illegal activities just outside the Quicksand, in not enough of a code that it could be considered anything else, you've fucked up IC and probably deserve the consequences.
Just as a point of correction:

C'kayah admitted to breaking the law, and I'm fine with all the consequences that came out of that (including his death at the hands of a couple of overzealous Flames).

Natalie's character was fighting with him when the same overzealous Flames arrested her. Her issue with this whole thing is that she was effectively asked to surrender agency of her character because of that. That's really the sole point of contention here.

You guys made your own decisions. Natalie could have ran. She LET herself be god-modded in this situation. Also, know your IC rights! Immortal Flames RPers can't arrest you!

You could get a Brass Blade involved on this and have the Flames RPer stripped down and beaten for over stepping their boundaries. If you guys need help with this, let me know...

Also, isn't Natalie a Sultansworn? She could have flaunted that to the Flamer and they would have turned tail and ran away. Sultansworn are more revered in Ul'dah than a lowly Flames donkey!

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Seeking advice on dealing with conflict

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes