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McBeefâ„¢ · **02-13-2014, 12:19 PM**

Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone. It's a lot of good info. Based on what people have said I've decided to proceed fully with the mental effects of tempering. Since my character was already incredibly devoted to the being in question, it won't cause much immediate and direct change in her actions. It is more changing why she makes those actions, before it was out of love and affection, now it is because she is compelled to do so. In my own way I'm trying to make it as impactful as possible, despite the fact that the being who did the tempering is about as good aligned and compassionate as one can get.

As for reversing it... I'm not sure. It quite possible won't get reversed. However Natalie wasn't tempered by a "real" primal, and instead more of a garleans/ascian science experiment. If we do decide to reverse the tempering through RP, I don't think that contradicts anyone's lore, since this is a rather special case.

Celeste · **02-13-2014, 07:37 PM**

(02-12-2014, 11:04 PM)Sounsy Wrote: Leviathan was first summoned by the Sahagin in 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era. Leviathan was then summarily defeated by The Company of Heroes around the same time that they defeated Titan. The Sahagin have been hostile towards Lominsa ever since. Prior to 1562 though, a 1.0 NPC named Sisipu claims that the Sahagin were a harmless beast race who's worst crimes against Lominsans were cutting fishing nets.Â

However, there's currently no lore to support that Leviathan was summoned more than that one time.

Right right, now that you mention this I definitely remember that being stated. It has honestly been a long time.

Well, the only other mention of Leviathan was that the previous (Sixth) Umbral Era was called "The Sixth Umbral Era of Water." There was some people that have suggested this meant the entire world was covered by a great flood and Leviathan may have been the culprit. Though at this point that is also mostly speculation.

(02-13-2014, 12:19 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: As for reversing it... I'm not sure. It quite possible won't get reversed. However Natalie wasn't tempered by a "real" primal, and instead more of a garleans/ascian science experiment. If we do decide to reverse the tempering through RP, I don't think that contradicts anyone's lore, since this is a rather special case.

Honestly I would argue that undoing a tempering process for another mage would be profoundly more easier than undoing the bond of a primal (since that is what it sounds like this is where it's going). As far as another mortal is concerned their ability to effect and influence the aether will never be as profound as a primal, which appear to be beings of the aether made physical manifest.

I suppose you can think of it in terms of water. You have some individuals that can affect the flow of water in a very minimal way (such as dipping your hand and splashing somebody), then you have others that can affect the flow in a bigger way, (such as cupping a whole handful and throwing it at somebody). Now just as each person is endowed with their own natural body, they only have so much of that water (energy) within themselves. The transcience of life means that eventually the body will die and that energy will be returned. This is different than the primals themselves, who ARE the water. And in the above analogy with splashing and the throwing, their flow of water would be opening up a fire hose and dousing them utterly. As they are made of the stuff, they can do so without fundamentally giving away too much of themselves.

Which now brings me to an interesting question. Since tempering is a fundamental change to the aether of a person's being, how would a mage temper another individual? --In theory-- (and assuming how I am conceptualizing tempering in the above analogy as really how this whole process works) this would mean that they are giving up a part of their aether into another person to make that person "of" them. While this could also work --in theory-- it also means that the person fundamentally gave a part of their own aether (aka. their own life stream) into another person. Were a mage to do this too much and without any means of restoring their own natural aether, they would essentially hollow out their own body and make themselves a lifeless husk.

ArmachiA · **02-13-2014, 08:10 PM**

(02-13-2014, 12:19 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone. It's a lot of good info. Based on what people have said I've decided to proceed fully with the mental effects of tempering. Since my character was already incredibly devoted to the being in question, it won't cause much immediate and direct change in her actions. It is more changing why she makes those actions, before it was out of love and affection, now it is because she is compelled to do so. In my own way I'm trying to make it as impactful as possible, despite the fact that the being who did the tempering is about as good aligned and compassionate as one can get.

As for reversing it... I'm not sure. It quite possible won't get reversed. However Natalie wasn't tempered by a "real" primal, and instead more of a garleans/ascian science experiment. If we do decide to reverse the tempering through RP, I don't think that contradicts anyone's lore, since this is a rather special case.

Not sure she was as devoted as tempering would her. Natalie have a boyfriend? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Natalie have friends? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Like her job? Now she doesn't, only likes her primal. Tempering makes you completely unable to care about anything else. It's that level of devotion.

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-13-2014, 08:58 PM**

(02-13-2014, 08:10 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(02-13-2014, 12:19 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone. It's a lot of good info. Based on what people have said I've decided to proceed fully with the mental effects of tempering. Since my character was already incredibly devoted to the being in question, it won't cause much immediate and direct change in her actions. It is more changing why she makes those actions, before it was out of love and affection, now it is because she is compelled to do so. In my own way I'm trying to make it as impactful as possible, despite the fact that the being who did the tempering is about as good aligned and compassionate as one can get.

As for reversing it... I'm not sure. It quite possible won't get reversed. However Natalie wasn't tempered by a "real" primal, and instead more of a garleans/ascian science experiment. If we do decide to reverse the tempering through RP, I don't think that contradicts anyone's lore, since this is a rather special case.

Not sure she was as devoted as tempering would her. Natalie have a boyfriend? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Natalie have friends? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Like her job? Now she doesn't, only likes her primal. Tempering makes you completely unable to care about anything else. It's that level of devotion.

But what if the primal also care about all those things? I'm trying to balance the complete devotion with the fact that the primal want's my char to do all those things.

The being in question, who is tangentially related to primals, but not exactly one, is as devoted to my char, as my char was to her. What happens when the primal's will is for you to be independent and happy?

Syl Souther · **02-13-2014, 09:12 PM**

(02-13-2014, 08:58 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(02-13-2014, 08:10 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(02-13-2014, 12:19 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone. It's a lot of good info. Based on what people have said I've decided to proceed fully with the mental effects of tempering. Since my character was already incredibly devoted to the being in question, it won't cause much immediate and direct change in her actions. It is more changing why she makes those actions, before it was out of love and affection, now it is because she is compelled to do so. In my own way I'm trying to make it as impactful as possible, despite the fact that the being who did the tempering is about as good aligned and compassionate as one can get.

As for reversing it... I'm not sure. It quite possible won't get reversed. However Natalie wasn't tempered by a "real" primal, and instead more of a garleans/ascian science experiment. If we do decide to reverse the tempering through RP, I don't think that contradicts anyone's lore, since this is a rather special case.

Not sure she was as devoted as tempering would her. Natalie have a boyfriend? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Natalie have friends? Now she doesn't, she only cares about her Primal. Like her job? Now she doesn't, only likes her primal. Tempering makes you completely unable to care about anything else. It's that level of devotion.

But what if the primal also care about all those things? I'm trying to balance the complete devotion with the fact that the primal want's my char to do all those things.

The being in question, who is tangentially related to primals, but not exactly one, is as devoted to my char, as my char was to her. What happens when the primal's will is for you to be independent and happy?

If that's the case... what's the point in being tempered at all? It seems like nothing's changed.

FreelanceWizard · **02-13-2014, 09:19 PM**

(02-13-2014, 08:58 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: The being in question, who is tangentially related to primals, but not exactly one, is as devoted to my char, as my char was to her. What happens when the primal's will is for you to be independent and happy?

If you're like the Tempered NPCs we see, you'll twist that underlying principle into service of the Primal. (If you're familiar with Vampire: the Masquerade, Tempering is similar in some ways to Blood Bond; IRL, it's closest to being a member of a niche, destructive religious cult, I suppose.) So, you'll refuse direction from anyone and actively seek to harm those who tell you what to do -- that's independence. You'll try to get all your friends Tempered so they can see the truth that you do -- that's happiness. Anything that impacts your happiness is a threat to be destroyed.

The Tempered, at least as the game presents them through NPCs, are zealots. They may be sane, calculating, mustache-twirling, or bleed psychos, but they're all absolutely devoted, above all else, to the service of their Primal and the principle it represents. That tends to come out in twisted ways (constant war in the case of the Amalj'aa, kidnapping their kin in the case of the Sylphs, etc.).

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-13-2014, 09:26 PM**

(02-13-2014, 09:12 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote: If that's the case... what's the point in being tempered at all? It seems like nothing's changed.

Well it's more the reason *why* she is doing things. It's one thing for a person who be devoted to someone, it's another to not have a choice.

And there isn't a *point*, it happened, and is turning out to be a pretty interesting thing for my IC friends to deal with. I'm not sure there is ever a point to RP, except to create interesting stories and have fun.

Syl Souther · **02-13-2014, 09:40 PM**

(02-13-2014, 09:26 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(02-13-2014, 09:12 PM)R Wrote: If that's the case... what's the point in being tempered at all? It seems like nothing's changed.

Well it's more the reason *why* she is doing things. It's one thing for a person who be devoted to someone, it's another to not have a choice.

And there isn't a *point*, it happened, and is turning out to be a pretty interesting thing for my IC friends to deal with. I'm not sure there is ever a point to RP, except to create interesting stories and have fun.

It just doesn't seem all that interesting. This is BY FAR a personal choice. If your friends are having fun with it, then by all means. I'm just not getting it. I think of tempering as a major twist in a storyline. The only reason I'd consider it for a character is for that dramatic twist. If a tempering occurs and there's no real change in how my character acts or feels, then it seems pointless.

But it's your story. I don't need to get it. Big Grin

Cato · **02-14-2014, 09:49 AM**

Being Tempered is meant to be a pretty big deal. It's something that the people of Eorzea fear, perhaps even more than death itself. There's not much room for being anything else but a rabid and unquestioning zealot that serves the Primal that Tempered them in the first place.

Which is precisely why most role-players have no business exploring the concept - it's effectively a 'bad end' to a character's story. There's no return and the moment people begin twisting details to make it convenient it stops being a case of being Tempered and ends up going down a rather slippery slope instead.

It seems like you could gain the exact same effect from having your character captured and brainwashed by a cult and then have your character's friends discover this and try to either put your character down or save her.

Flickering Ember · **02-14-2014, 11:32 AM**

Hey Natalie, I think you already have your bases pretty much covered. In your story, the primal your character is attached to is man made and an experiment. There are a lot of possibilities and routes you could take here as it is very likely an experimental primal would differ quite a bit from the other primals. You could create your own tempering effects according to what would be the most fun for you and your friends.Â

Additionally, perhaps she could break from the tempering because of this. This could cause the primal's creators to ask themselves what they did wrong and what discoveries they have gotten out of this experiment or what they could do better. This could be an easy route since experiments are often prone to failure or may not perfectly replicate what they are supposed to mimic.

I think the effects of tempering would create a change in your character even if she is already rather fanatic. Maybe it wouldn't be that noticeable to strangers. Or maybe strangers think she is very strange and pushy with her religion. Meanwhile, my view of tempering, even if your character was already a zealot, is that her friends and family would probably take immediate notice to something being very wrong as I suspect she would be even more zealous than normal and perhaps not in a way that people close to her would consider endearing.

Kage · **02-14-2014, 11:58 AM**

(02-13-2014, 09:26 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Well it's more the reason *why* she is doing things. It's one thing for a person who be devoted to someone, it's another to not have a choice.

And there isn't a *point*, it happened, and is turning out to be a pretty interesting thing for my IC friends to deal with. I'm not sure there is ever a point to RP, except to create interesting stories and have fun.

That's it. I'm convinced, you want to drink Kage's tears of panic and anxiety. And my own.

I still think that because the "primal" isn't a true primal (as we know them), that the tempering can be undone. It's not needed like the Primals' Tempering are in their unsatiated wants and needs. We'll just have to see. Of course whether or not that is true remains to be seen but your friends need to make sure that the character is not exposed due to the populations' fears and concerns over the Primals and their Tempered.

Roen · **02-14-2014, 12:29 PM**

Well, I will say this so far.

Tempered Natalie is NOT Natalie. Â She is all sorts of subtly creepy in that "I am normal and HAPPY SEE" kind of a way. Â Something definitely is wrong there.

Kage · **02-14-2014, 12:55 PM**

(02-14-2014, 12:29 PM)Brynn Wrote: Well, I will say this so far.

Tempered Natalie is NOT Natalie. Â She is all sorts of subtly creepy in that "I am normal and HAPPY SEE" kind of a way. Â Something definitely is wrong there.

It's almost very uncanny valley. @_@ It all goes quite fine until subtle creepy parts just make you freak. D:

D:<<<<

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-14-2014, 01:16 PM**

Just for the record, I made this thread to get more information about the effects of tempering in the lore, so I could have a basis for how to portray a unique tempering process my character went through.

Many people have given me a lot of good information which I feel is allowing me to portray it in an interesting way.

However some people seem to be attacking my decision to go down this route, which isn't helpful to anyone, and I think isn't very appropriate. I'm not asking any of you to go along with what I'm doing, I just wanted OOC help to flesh out the background of what my character is going through.

C'kayah Polaali · **02-14-2014, 02:03 PM**

(02-14-2014, 12:55 PM)ExKage Wrote:
(02-14-2014, 12:29 PM)Brynn Wrote: Well, I will say this so far.

Tempered Natalie is NOT Natalie. Â She is all sorts of subtly creepy in that "I am normal and HAPPY SEE" kind of a way. Â Something definitely is wrong there.
It's almost very uncanny valley. @_@ It all goes quite fine until subtle creepy parts just make you freak. D:

D:<<<<

The Stepford Nat...

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The effects of Tempering

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes