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Clover · **03-16-2014, 06:42 AM**

I believe that the service FFXIV offers is still very good (in fact, I haven't played better MMORPG than this one, or that offersÂ as many details for RPers like this one does). The glamour system's limitations aren't really such, for everyone can get to lv50. It's an added motivation to level up, and MMORPGs will naturally want you to play the game. Perhaps they also want for armours to keep a certain degree of charisma; if an armour is supposed to be a symbol of being powerful (in this case, max level), I think it's very fine to keep things that way.

tl;dr: I don't thinkÂ wearing armour related to your levelÂ is a big issue, or a reason to hate the companyÂ (?_?) They aren't asking for anything impossible either; just level up! It's great that we're getting a glamour system.

synaesthetic · **03-18-2014, 05:01 AM**

(03-16-2014, 06:42 AM)Clover Wrote: I believe that the service FFXIV offers is still very good (in fact, I haven't played better MMORPG than this one, or that offersÂ as many details for RPers like this one does). The glamour system's limitations aren't really such, for everyone can get to lv50. It's an added motivation to level up, and MMORPGs will naturally want you to play the game. Perhaps they also want for armours to keep a certain degree of charisma; if an armour is supposed to be a symbol of being powerful (in this case, max level), I think it's very fine to keep things that way.

tl;dr: I don't thinkÂ wearing armour related to your levelÂ is a big issue, or a reason to hate the companyÂ (?_?) They aren't asking for anything impossible either; just level up! It's great that we're getting a glamour system.

It's still an arbitrary restriction, however this is arguably the more minor gripe. The real big stupid one is that it's restricted to only what your class can equip. That's silly. It tremendously limits the possible outfits we can construct, especially for Disciples of Magic. Tanks will be able to use basically everything and the casters will get to use nothing but cloth.

This also leaves out the extremely attractive DoH artifact armor sets, which are all varied and interesting and could easily be used to create some really visually striking outfits when combined with other sets from other armor types.

There's absolutely no logical reason whatsoever to limit the costuming system this way. It's totally and completely arbitrary. There are no technical issues that would cause this limit, since all races can play all classes and they all share the same animations, anyway. This limit is just as ridiculous as the inability to dye most dungeon sets and all artifact sets.

Clover · **03-18-2014, 06:07 AM**

(03-18-2014, 05:01 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: It's still an arbitrary restriction, however this is arguably the more minor gripe. The real big stupid one is that it's restricted to only what your class can equip. That's silly. It tremendously limits the possible outfits we can construct, especially for Disciples of Magic. Tanks will be able to use basically everything and the casters will get to use nothing but cloth.

This isn't a restriction I personally mind either. Every single game has it, there are always some armour pieces that can only be worn by a class and not by another, which encourages people to level multiple characters (and I think that's the point). At least in FFXIV you can level multiple classes with the same character, so you can actually wear every single piece of cloth of you put a bit of effort into it. And I think that's the key word here, effort; if you want something, you have to work for it. Again, they aren't asking for something impossible, as leveling is not difficult at all.

So yes, in the end, your character can wear any piece you want. Just get the level and class needed, it's simple as that. Working for a goal is one of the main points in MMORPGs, after all; you can't expect the game to give you everything without putting a minimum of effort into it.

synaesthetic · **03-18-2014, 11:06 AM**

(03-18-2014, 06:07 AM)Clover Wrote: This isn't a restriction I personally mind either. Every single game has it, there are always some armour pieces that can only be worn by a class and not by another, which encourages people to level multiple characters (and I think that's the point). At least in FFXIV you can level multiple classes with the same character, so you can actually wear every single piece of cloth of you put a bit of effort into it. And I think that's the key word here, effort; if you want something, you have to work for it. Again, they aren't asking for something impossible, as leveling is not difficult at all.

So yes, in the end, your character can wear any piece you want. Just get the level and class needed, it's simple as that. Working for a goal is one of the main points in MMORPGs, after all; you can't expect the game to give you everything without putting a minimum of effort into it.

Every single game most certainly does not have this limitation. RIFT allows you to use any piece of gear, regardless of level or whether you can equip it or not, in the wardrobe tab. SWTOR has Adaptive Armor, which changes its armor class (but not its appearance) to the heaviest one that your particular class can use, allowing tank-Jedi to wear mage-Jedi robes and vice versa. DCUO doesn't have this restriction, either, allowing you to use the appearance of any item you've obtained during your playtime, whether you still have it or not.

So no, I cannotÂ wear any piece I want. Because I want to wear the Alchemist lab coat while fighting Twintania as a summoner. Because I want to combine the Foestriker body and armored boots and gauntlets on black mage to make a battle-wizard outfit. Because I want to mix and match sets to make more outfits so I don't look like a clone of every other goddamned black mage or summoner or scholar or warrior or bard.

As it stands, all that this glamour system, with its ridiculous limitations, is going to allow me to do is to make sure my sets match even when I'm using pieces from multiple sets. All it'll really let me do is get rid of that ugly BLM robe. It won't let me get crazy creative with outfits, farming dungeons left and right for pieces, leveling crafting jobs to get their AF, buying lots and lots of various bits of gear from craftersÂ (isn't this the entire point of the glamour system? to help crafters?), playing around with the system to take loads of screenshots while burning through glamour prisms at a rate best described as scary--all the while funneling gil toward crafters who are desperate for any sort of relevance.

I won't be doing any of that. I'll maybe buy a handful of them, get rid of that horrible face-hiding BLM robe and sort out my outfit so it's not mismatched. Then I probably won't use any more until I get new gear. Imagine how much of my gil I would have redistributed to crafters if they had not totally hobbled and utterly crippled this system.

Clover · **03-18-2014, 11:40 AM**

Well, all the games I've played have those restrictions, at least (Mabinogi:Heroes, Tera, and if I remember well, GW2 too. Bless Online has confirmed to also be class restricted). I'm sorry you can't combine certain items, but I'm sure there are other items you can like as well @x@

Sometimes, you have to adhere to certain rules. In this case, I find it very normal that the armours which represent each class can't be combined, for each class is like a character on their own.

Kage · **03-18-2014, 11:42 AM**

As it is, the only benefit to the Glamor system is that I can PVP or PVE my end-game or dungeon things in the lower level gear that aren't fugly while not gimping my stats.

I would -love-Â a lot of the ideas of how to change your look if it wasn't so restricted. I can understand the decision but it doesn't mean I can't wish they'd give me the chance to not look like every caster in the game with a crimson vest or like every other tank out there.

As it is, it's just as if I equipped a gear set without the stats being gimped.

synaesthetic · **03-18-2014, 12:07 PM**

I can't understand the restriction at all. It's completely arbitrary and stupid.Â Frustrated

I can understand the restriction for the combination pieces; that's probably a technical issue in which if you tried to remodel only one slot of the darklight cowl, the cowl isn't actually two separate poly models so it would simply not work.

But the level requirement is silly. I already earned my royal vest. I got it from doing CT on scholar. Why can't I mog my random CNJ outfit to look like it? That's just ridiculous. The equip limitation is even dumber. We're still going to look like clones, just instead of everyone looking exactly alike, there will just be groups of clones.

Sounsyy · **03-18-2014, 12:07 PM**

May not get to equip every piece you wanted to, but there's going to be a lot more gear released specifically for vanity purposes. 2.2 New Emotes & Vanity Gear

So maybe in the future there will be heavier armors for mage classes. Will have to wait and see. They're always going to be adding new and fancier looking gear. The old gear will probably stay inaccessible because it was designed and released with PVE in mind, not vanity. But with vanity specific gear, I'm sure a lot more combinations will pop up, with outfits more similar to stuff we see on NPCs, around town, or akin to the crafter AF than what is currently in game.

synaesthetic · **03-18-2014, 12:11 PM**

Square-Enix: Over-complicating and restricting MMO fluff systems that should be simple, unrestricted and fun since 2002.
Let's not even get started on the proposed marriage system...

Let's face it. Squee hates fun.

*feels the urge to buy something from RIFT's cash shop rising*

Edit: If Squee is restricting things in order to make crafting more relevant by giving unrestricted, statless level 1 vanity versions of existing and future armor sets, I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is that they will probably wait six months to do it. Sad

It should be part of this patch, especially since the art assets already exist.

Melodia · **03-18-2014, 12:49 PM**

I'm relatively new to these forums, and appreciate all opinions and ideas, but I am surprised at the level of vitriol toward some folks' posts and toward the company in general. It's a game. And it's clothing. I have seen folks combine and make outstanding outfits with the existing stuff, without the glamour system. Soooo......why is everyone so angry?

I am confused. Dazed

Steel Wolf · **03-18-2014, 01:11 PM**

(03-18-2014, 12:07 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: May not get to equip every piece you wanted to, but there's going to be a lot more gear released specifically for vanity purposes. 2.2 New Emotes & Vanity Gear

OHMIGAWWD WE GET BALLROOM GOWNS!!! Big Grin

Ahem...*drinks beer, chops down a tree by glaring at it angrily*

Naunet · **03-18-2014, 01:14 PM**

(03-18-2014, 12:49 PM)Rurutani Wrote: Soooo......why is everyone so angry?

Did you not read the reasonsÂ people are annoyed at the glamour system? :S Because those would be why.

FreelanceWizard · **03-18-2014, 01:18 PM**

(03-18-2014, 12:07 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: May not get to equip every piece you wanted to, but there's going to be a lot more gear released specifically for vanity purposes. 2.2 New Emotes & Vanity Gear

Long dresses... wow. I never thought I'd see the day. Smile

synaesthetic · **03-18-2014, 02:54 PM**

(03-18-2014, 12:49 PM)Rurutani Wrote: I'm relatively new to these forums, and appreciate all opinions and ideas, but I am surprised at the level of vitriol toward some folks' posts and toward the company in general. It's a game. And it's clothing. I have seen folks combine and make outstanding outfits with the existing stuff, without the glamour system. Soooo......why is everyone so angry?

I am confused.

Short version is that I can't wear the things I want while doing the things I want. For roleplaying this isn't tooÂ bad, because it doesn't matter what job or class I'm on, I can hide my weapon and pretend otherwise (I've done it before in roleplay with Eos out so that there would be a visual cue for the orphaned fairy Rinah).

For not-roleplaying this poses a problem: I can't wear ALC or GSM AF without being an ALC or a GSM, respectively. I can't wear Sexy Labcoat and Skirt while fighting Twintania.

The other problem is that I can't mix and match sets. I'd really like to mix different parts of different sets to make really neat outfits. I can't do that. By restricting the system this way, the Clone Disease isn't cured at all; it's just a band-aid fix. Instead of every level 50 BLM dressed in Sorcerer's or Allagan, you'll see every level 50 BLM dressed in Sorcerer's, Allagan, GC gear, Battlemage, Coliseum or Acolyte.Â

So instead of everyone being a clone of one look, everyone will be a clone of five looks. It doesn't solve the problem, just lessens it very slightly. We've already got a problem of minimal character customization because we have so few hairstyles and not enough sliders for body types and shapes. This doesn't alleviate that issue.

Another problem is that tanks have an unfair advantage. They can wear virtually anything except specifically job/class restricted gear, but they can wear anything with looser restrictions, which means cloth, leather, chain and plate. Casters, on the other hand, can onlyÂ wear cloth. That's completely unfair and unbalanced. Compare to RIFT, where you can totally put a mage in heavy plate armor, or mix a bunch of sets up.

And a minor issue is that there's no way to disable a slot to make it appear as if no armor is actually there with the exception of the head slot. One of the things I do in RIFT is disable my shoulder slot because I don't like the huge 80s shoulderpads. I can't do something like that here and I might want to, I dunno, disable gloves, so I can see my rings, or disable dangly earrings because they look goofy on races who aren't miqo'te.

The costuming system Squee chose to use is very, very primitive. This is 2014. There's no need for this. They can do much better, but they actively chose not to, and like many of the primitive/outdated systems Squee chooses to use, it is completely arbitrary.

Ildur · **03-18-2014, 09:09 PM**

I would say that Square's chosen armor restriction and glamour system are reflection of them wanting to preserve their prefered aesthetic identity for characters in the game. Essentially, they'd be subscribing to the "We are the Author Gods and our Creative Intent is Holier than yours".

I would say that, but I won't. The armor system and glamour isn't consistent enough with each other to say that. As Aeriyn has said, tanks get the wider spectrum of clothes to wear. If Squee wanted to preserve their character design, they wouldn't have this armor system. They'd have something like Guild Wars 2, where your class can only wear one very specific type of armor and no other.

The system seems dissapointing right now. But if they add class-less versions of currently class restricted gear for crafters to make, they might manage to make it a lot more useful. I hope that's their plan, anyway.

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