RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Erik Mynhier · **07-15-2014, 04:05 AM**

(07-15-2014, 03:57 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 03:56 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 03:34 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 03:28 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: We had two characters come to RWHQ tonight to "find Askier". On the way random players, some not even associated with the RPC, but having overheard the plot joined in without the original two asking. What formed was a lynchmob outside our door that had to be RPed away. This thing is spreading to the masses IC and OOC.

That's why we have a cannon in our front yard.

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

So do we, but Lala's are nimble. They dodge those balls like nothing.

That's what Grapeshot is for.

lol. Next time I'll load myself in and draw my blade and have myself fired hyur-cannonball style.

Tiergan · **07-15-2014, 04:16 AM**

As someone who had been considering letting Tier get collar'd previous to the event, before just sticking him in the 'good guy' team - I have to admit that I sort of feel a little like I dodged a bullet.

I know how hectic and crazy it can be to organize and run a server-wide event, so I deeply appreciate all the work that went into this event so far. For my part, I've had a lot of fun. However, I do think that now might be a good time to stop, speak with all the collar'd folks, and make sure they're comfortable with where things are now headed for them before continuing to move forward. For anyone accepting this event as actually happening for them, it could really change a lot of things.

Gaspard · **07-15-2014, 04:22 AM**

(07-15-2014, 12:59 AM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 12:08 AM)Gaspard Wrote: The problem in seperating the guilt of so many people that played on the 'Villain' side, as you put it, is that we're back into assuming how Ul'dah would react. Something we have no feasable way of knowing. They might only try to find the heads behind the operation, or they may want everyone involved in any fashion hanged, akin to a witch-hunt. Guilty by Association, and/or standing on the wrong side.

In the end, it's not as much about deducting the degree of guilt in each character, but rather, what the Ul'dahn society will settle on as viable punishment, and given that Ul'dah follows a rather medieval system of governing, it's not improbable that it'd be rather a witch-hunt then fair, individual set of trials to deduct someones guilt or innocence.

I think that in general people should distance themselves from thinking of this in terms of 'fairness' and or 'Character A is more guilty then Character B'. It's more likely(or plausible), that they'll trial everyone involved as guilty of treason against the Crown and the Citizens of Ul'dah, which will translate into hanging for all of them. There will be too much pressure form the Citizens themselves for a verdict that will please them, rather then be just,as many people will have dead relatives, friends and spouses by that point.

That's all well and good, but this is a cooperative game. Some people are, rather understandably, attached to playing their characters. So going around drawing lines in the sand saying "this is how it should be, and if you don't conform to the way I see things, then to hell with you" is simply not the way to go about it. It does not set a good precedent for the community - and that's what we are, lest anyone forget.

Make no mistake: I thoroughly encourage and support any and all IC reactions as your character (and this is a general "your," directed at no particular person, since it's evident that Aya isn't alone in her thinking) sees fit. What I don't support, on an OOC level, is 1.) blanket statements, for one, regarding a diverse group of characters with numerous motivations and differing circumstances, and 2.) declaring refusal to interact with someone because you disagree with their RP choices. The former is simply making assumptions, and the latter is at best exclusionist and, at worst, metagaming.

Actually, I personally tend to always find a way to get somewhat 'adjusted' to a situation, aslong it is not too outlandish. So you needn't worry about me running around 'shunning people', unless it gets too ridiculous.

As for ""this is how it should be, and if you don't conform to the way I see things, then to hell with you" is simply not the way to go about it." , That's not really the purpose or goal behind the whole Idea. As I mentioned before, It's a drastic, sub-optimal solution, but at times the only one left for players that feel as if there's no other choice in order to take themselves out of a plot/dynamic they don't want to be part of. I mean, what is the alternative? Always go along with plays you consider unrealistic/nonsensical? If so, you'd have to take every single barhopping, naked troll in the Quicksand seriously the moment he says 'i'm srs'. Ofcourse, it's a harsh and kind of over-the-top example, but it I think it conveys the message. What's Logical to you, isn't necessarily logical to others. If you're at a crossroad, you have the option of either : Trying to work it out if the person is willing to listen, or, if ignored in your request, in kind ignore their character.Â

Â I for one try to find a way to make things work, by sometimes even finding opportunities and more logical explenations for how they could achieve what they'd wish to achieve. That is, until someone claims he's killed Bahamut, Married Momodi, Or wined and dined with Odin.

I don't understand your point in regards to 'blanket statements', because I don't think any have been rendered. At most, I've voiced my personal theory, that I find logical as a result of that which apparently has, or will happen in this plot, and how the Ul'dahn Npc's (As in Military, Factions, Politicians, the common folk) will react to this scenario in regards to the characters involved.

As for:
2.) declaring refusal to interact with someone because you disagree with their RP choices.isÂ at bestÂ exclusionist and, at worst, metagaming.

I'd have to disagree. Metagaming is using OOC knowledge Icly. in the form of 'bob knows your secret without having a way to know your secret' or ' in order to survive, I suddenly know the weakspot nobody ever found out' Outright ignoring a characters existence isn't metagaming, i'd rather call it as it is, ignoring another characters existence. Which again, is perhaps the only viable way for people to get control into their characters and their World/setting if things do not seem 'logical' and/or Lore-cohesive to them. Also, It's not about 'disagreeing' with the characters RP choices, It's about disagreeing with the presumed consequences by the Ul'dahn City State / the NPC's that 'will' react to it. Just as many of us opt out of using story central characters in our backgrounds because you run into that issue of Thancred suddenly being part of everyones background, and it making no sense whatsoever, the same applies, if not especially applies to using large scale locations such as Ul'dah, and 'moreso' applies when using Ul'dahs citizens, thus influencing ALL Characters and all their current situations out of nowhere.

At last point, I'd like to address this:
"Some people are, rather understandably, attached to playing their characters."

I agree, we all carry certain attachment to our characters. However, that shouldn't expell us from consequences. Infact, everyone 'should' be aware that the moment you decide to trade blows with another character, or cause damage of any sort, you'r opening yourself up to negative feedback, which 'will' come in the form of violence or the likes.

Either way, these are all theoretical scenarios so far as the plot is not done yet, nor have the right motions concluded so far. At the very core, we're all just arguing about how severe we assume the eventual feedback against those characters involved will be from Ul'dahs NPC perspective. I've been more or less playing devils advocate in this discussion ,as I'm curious whether some people here 'really' thought about what consequence means, as opposed to 'yeah, I get to be a terrorist and get away with a light slap on the wrist that I will then sell as 'grand consequence' "

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 04:24 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:16 AM)Tiergan Wrote: As someone who had been considering letting Tier get collar'd previous to the event, before just sticking him in the 'good guy' team - I have to admit that I sort of feel a little like I dodged a bullet.

I know how hectic and crazy it can be to organize and run a server-wide event, so I deeply appreciate all the work that went into this event so far. For my part, I've had a lot of fun. However, I do think that now might be a good time to stop, speak with all the collar'd folks, and make sure they're comfortable with where things are now headed for them before continuing to move forward. For anyone accepting this event as actually happening for them, it could really change a lot of things.

One thing I love about these plots is that RP things start to almost have as much weight as things that are written into the lore. After the poisoning, 'Collared' seems almost like on the level of 'Tempered' in regards to the level of scariness. I think Tiergan is right, people might have agreed to have to have been collared so that the sides could be even for the saturday event, but they don't want their char to be hated forever. Currently there isn't any IC way for people to get out of their collars, so anyone who has been collared has one of two options.

1: Go along with what they are told, which could lead to very bad long term consequences.

2: Tell Jin'li to go fuck himself, and die.

I think we need to consider that maybe there needs to be a third option, "Get rid of the collar somehow." While this would rob Jin'li of many allies, I think quite a few of them would be willing to come back as NPC's or the equivalent. Part of the problem with not telling anyone ICly what being collared meant, is that many people didn't know OOCly as well what they were getting into.

I think we've done the whole, "What will happen as punishment" to the collared people discussion to death, so this isn't about that. This is more about giving people an out who might not have know what they were signing up for.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 04:35 AM**

As an addendum, It's quite possible everyone who agreed to be collared is ok with this. However I'm all about allowing choice at all points of a plot. Basically none of the collared people knew what they were helping on saturday, but they all do now. Anyone who doesn't resist is collaborating with mass murder at this point. I don't think anyone can argue that point. I think we can leave the semantics of who is reponsible for what during the poisoning for some interesting trial RP, but IF YOUR CHARACTER KEEPS ASSISTING JIN'LI IN ORDER TO SAVE THEIR OWN LIFE, then... things will go pretty badly for them long term in the eyes of many other RPers. That's why I'm concerned about giving people a way out before the next event.

Melkire · **07-15-2014, 04:41 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:24 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think we need to consider that maybe there needs to be a third option, "Get rid of the collar somehow."Â

This has been in the works for two weeks now, and will be coming to a head tomorrow. This is why I keep coming back to, "knowledge that not everyone is privy to".

Show Content

As for "IF YOUR CHARACTER KEEPS ASSISTING JIN'LI IN ORDER TO SAVE THEIR OWN LIFE" ... most if not all of the collared individuals are assisting Jin'li in order to save the lives of their loved ones.

Take that, ye double standards.

Tiergan · **07-15-2014, 04:42 AM**

I think that's the main thing that has rattled me about all of this.

Before joining this event, a friend and I were talking about which side to join and we were strongly considering joining the 'villain' side as people with collars on just to balance out the ratio of Villains VS Heroes. Later, I was told both sides were pretty balanced and that's what made me decide to just stick with the 'good guys'.

However, if I hadn't done that and went with the Villains simply to help balance the numbers only to find myself in a position where my character is suddenly seen as a huge, selfish asshole by the community at large for not opting to just kill himself with the explosive collar - I would be pretty devastated OOC. This event is fun, but if any collar'd folks feel sort of blindsided by what's happened so far, I'm hoping that we can brainstorm and help them find a way to still make this enjoyable for them as players.

Melkire · **07-15-2014, 04:49 AM**

Collared Individuals:

Osric Melkire
Kanaria Galanodel
Leilani Belle
Coatleque Crofte
Kiht Jakkya
Miah Polaali

Collared Individuals in Order of Significance:

Osric Melkire / Kiht Jakkya
Coatleque Crofte
Kanaria Galanodel
Miah Polaali
Leilani Belle

To my knowledge, all of the above consented to being collared, and are playing it out such that they minimize their contributions to Jin'li's efforts while trying to sabotage him discreetly. The first three have been passing vital information over to the heroes, the fourth has so far stayed out of it, and the fifth and sixth have coordinated to essentially "flop".Â

This "OMG COLLARED" scare is blown way out of proportion. There is not a veritable army of these folks. There are six individuals who are all struggling against their predicament in different ways.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 04:50 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:41 AM)Melkire Wrote: As for "IF YOUR CHARACTER KEEPS ASSISTING JIN'LI IN ORDER TO SAVE THEIR OWN LIFE" ... most if not all of the collared individuals are assisting Jin'li in order to save the lives of their loved ones.

Take that, ye double standards.

Same thing...

If someone let's literally thousands of people die in order to save a loved one, that's a despicable act. I don't really want to get into semantics again, but everyone has loved ones and everyone has people they want to save. I know in the RP terms "Thousands poisoned" is just a pithy line, but if you really think of it that's a big deal. Just as one person is willing to let thousands die to saved their loved ones, thousands more will be willing to risk anything to get revenge on their loved ones that were slain. Obviously we can't RP out all those NPC's but as others have said the gravity of the situation needs to be respected.

In recent memory a terrorist attack killed several thousand people out a population of 300 million and it started two wars and numerous other low intensity operations. This attack did the same for a much lower population (probably less than one million), it is a HUGE DEAL, even if their loved ones were in peril. Would anyone have given a fuck if Osama been laden ordered the 9/11 attacks to save his wife or something? (No).

Also to take it away from an attack, I really think dealing with this would only help RP. Right now people on the outskirts have the perspective that joining the villain side is like russian roulette, if they picked the wrong side they could be screwed. While I know you want to keep things secret, it might help if people know they have an out, just so they can take more risks and get involved in more shady business. Otherwise it's going to be harder and harder to get people to play on the villain side.

Askier · **07-15-2014, 04:51 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:24 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 04:16 AM)Tiergan Wrote: As someone who had been considering letting Tier get collar'd previous to the event, before just sticking him in the 'good guy' team - I have to admit that I sort of feel a little like I dodged a bullet. Â

I know how hectic and crazy it can be to organize and run a server-wide event, so I deeply appreciate all the work that went into this event so far. Â For my part, I've had a lot of fun. Â However, I do think that now might be a good time to stop, speak with all the collar'd folks, and make sure they're comfortable with where things are now headed for them before continuing to move forward. Â For anyone accepting this event as actually happening for them, it could really change a lot of things.

One thing I love about these plots is that RP things start to almost have as much weight as things that are written into the lore. After the poisoning, 'Collared' seems almost like on the level of 'Tempered' in regards to the level of scariness. I think Tiergan is right, people might have agreed to have to have been collared so that the sides could be even for the saturday event, but they don't want their char to be hated forever. Currently there isn't any IC way for people to get out of their collars, so anyone who has been collared has one of two options.

1: Go along with what they are told, which could lead to very bad long term consequences.

2: Tell Jin'li to go fuck himself, and die.

I think we need to consider that maybe there needs to be a third option, "Get rid of the collar somehow." While this would rob Jin'li of many allies, I think quite a few of them would be willing to come back as NPC's or the equivalent. Part of the problem with not telling anyone ICly what being collared meant, is that many people didn't know OOCly as well what they were getting into.

I think we've done the whole, "What will happen as punishment" to the collared people discussion to death, so this isn't about that. This is more about giving people an out who might not have know what they were signing up for.

I had actually set up an event to obtain the tool Askier needs to disarm the collars a while back and been working on it since Big Grin

.Â I started rping it the the same day I collared Osric since I back-storied Askier having designed said collars back when he was a Garlean solider.Â I am more than willing to disarm the explosive the collar to anyone whom is collared TOMORROW after the mini event is done should anyone with one like.Â I am more than happy to make sure anyone whom wishes it to allow them a way out immediately to not cause them any problems IC'ly, and if doing so makes one side lop-sided..meh....baddies gotta lose eventually, right?Â Big Grin

Even if Jin'li dies at the end of event two and we don't get an event three.Â Â

Now, I have created what can only be equaled to a firestorm of conversation and controversy over my event and I apologize for all those whom have been blindsided/offended/put off.Â I never meant to cause anyone to feel anything other than enjoyment for my event and in a way, I honestly feel a little disappointed in myself for not doing a better job communicating. Cry

Â Please do not blame anyone save me.Â All those whom have helped me have been fantastic for sparing their free time.

Kanaria Melkire · **07-15-2014, 04:57 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:41 AM)Melkire Wrote:
(07-15-2014, 04:24 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think we need to consider that maybe there needs to be a third option, "Get rid of the collar somehow."Â

This has been in the works for two weeks now, and will be coming to a head tomorrow. This is why I keep coming back to, "knowledge that not everyone is privy to".

Show Content

OoC SpoilersAskier, Endemerrin, Saravena, Roen, Gharen, Delial, Kahn'a, and Sizzie will be breaking into a castrum tomorrow in order to obtain the parts/components/tools that Askier and Merri need to at least disarm the collars' explosives, if not remove the collars completely.

As for "IF YOUR CHARACTER KEEPS ASSISTING JIN'LI IN ORDER TO SAVE THEIR OWN LIFE" ... most if not all of the collared individuals are assisting Jin'li in order to save the lives of their loved ones.

Take that, ye double standards.

I've highlighted the important parts of what Osric has said. To those that have been pissing and moaning about this event, you do not know everything that is going on,Â and should be ashamed of yourselves for assuming things.Â What fun would it be if you did? What would you have to look forward to, honestly... Sit back, relax and let the story play out...Â

IMMERSIVE!

Oh no, do not let the GM/Storyteller do their job! Don't listen to what they say, don't take their words at face value...

Askier has a wonderful handle on what he's doing, and I would gladly place any of my characters in his hands. Of course we talked about all this before hand and yes I agreed to it. I'm still not privy to everything that is going on... and that's why I'm enjoying this so much.

That said... Bribe Askier with food, maybe you will get your way.Â Wink

Natilie... I'm calling you out right now... If that's the way you think, you are heartless. I'm glad to know that if any of your family or loved ones were collared that you would gladly let them die...

To those that have been sitting back and being chill about this whole thing, thank you. You are the ones I want to be roleplaying with!

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 04:58 AM**

Sounds good both Askier and Osric. It doesn't affect my character much, but as someone who wants these events to continue and succeed, I think it's important for people to know (even if they won't know ICly) that participating on the villain side doesn't immediately put you on the fast path to a hangman's noose.

Gaspard · **07-15-2014, 05:03 AM**

Aw D:, dem feels

Seriously though. I don't think that all these talks are necessarily bad. Infact situations like these help promote a better understanding and moreso a better planning in future situations, since it helps to gauge out peoples sensitivities to certain scenarios/types of plays.

Moreso, I think you've done a rather good job communicating Askier. It's hard to predict every variable the moment you make an event server wide, especially if you put high stakes into it (I.E the lifes of civilians) etc.

The only thing I would personally propose for future Events, especially if they're meant to be large scale and touch upon various players and the whole 'rp scenery' itself, is to talk it out beforehand, as in, not just simply announce said events and phases, but actually gauge whether the majority Is for it. That way you can save yourself alot of trouble ahead with minimal clearing up beforehand.

@ Kanaria: Please don't instigate. If you feel strongly about Natalies opinion that's fine, but calling her heartless seems somewhat extreme given she's not wrong when it comes to the basis alone.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-15-2014, 05:03 AM**

(07-15-2014, 04:57 AM)Kanaria Galanodel Wrote: Natilie... I'm calling you out right now... If that's the way you think, you are heartless. I'm glad to know that if any of your family or loved ones were collared that you would gladly let them die...

If someone said to me, "We're killing your parents/lover/children unless you poison the water supply of Los Angeles" ( the city in which I live). I wouldn't do it. Maybe that's a weird choice? But I just wouldn't. At some level we're all playing for the shared team that is humanity (or sentient creatures as far as FFXIV is concerned) and mass murder for the sake of one individual is objectively wrong.

Tiergan · **07-15-2014, 05:08 AM**

I really enjoyed myself. I was just worried about how folks were doing with how things unfurled. If all the 'collared' people are actually okay and still having fun, then all is groovy from my personal standpoint.

Also, I have to admit, I felt a lot of tension while reading this thread. I think all of us not directly managing the event should keep in mind that big, large-scale server events like this are EXTREMELY difficult to pull off without problems. It's like herding around 40 cats. (Sometimes literally with the miqo'te population :V) The greater the number of people involved, the greater the chance of issues propping up. A little patience and understanding when discussing our problems with each other or when agreeing/disagreeing with other folks in the thread gives the event-runners a chance to sort things out and improve things for the better if any actual issues exist.

Edit: I also think there's nothing wrong with non-event-managing folks expressing concerns. Like I said, I was mostly worried that there might be collared folks feeling stuck when I piped up. It makes me feel much better about participating knowing that it's not actually a problem. I didn't want to keep having fun knowing it was possibly at someone else's expense and I wouldn't really have had that cleared up for me if it wasn't brought up. That said, I do wish everyone would address things with each other in a bit of a calmer fashion.

This event is pretty huge in scale, and naturally has effected lots of folks, but this is still a game we're playing for fun - I'm sure we can all talk about this stuff without getting a little harsh with each other.

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Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Rules for Event 2 in first post)

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