Hydaelyn Role-Players
OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Printable Version

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RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Faye - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 07:13 PM)Intaki Wrote: I try not to gossip too much with one point of exception: if I or anyone whom I trust has a terrible experience with a member of an FC this will negatively impact my opinion of said FC and the capability and responsibility of its leadership. And these experiences and opinions are not ones that I will be frugal in sharing, especially to the new players and RPers I meet.

As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole. All it takes is one bad newbie who wouldn't last long anyway, or one member having a bad a day or acting under the radar of the FC. We are not omniscient and don't always know what happens or how people behave when we aren't watching. I'm grateful anytime someone would rather communicate and let me know what's going rather than condemn me/my FC based on actions of someone who's likely to get the boot soon anyway. As for other FC leaders, whenever someone is causing trouble I often speak with their FC leader. Most are very grateful and apologetic. Occasionally you'll get someone who doesn't care or who behaves just as badly as the behavior you're reporting to them, but, well... I suppose that's when it's valid to pass judgement. After all, snap judgments and a lack of communication are what lead to so much of the drama being discussed here.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Elaris - 06-24-2015

Yeah I know what you mean, I try my best to not get involved in any of that but it can be hard when its constantly around ya. I have friends who do the very same, and I even find that I sometimes slip and jump on the drama bandwagon but that is very rarely. If somebody I know talks negatively about a player or FC, even If I simply just say " Yeah "; it does not mean I agree with them. It is not something I like to deal with personally though and is definitely not something I'd like to prolong if I somehow find myself in such a mess. The group I do hang out with the most in game currently have been very good on that front though so I'm glad for that. I had a few negative quotes sent to me a few times that paint me in a negative light, I just ignore it and try not let it bother me at the end of the day. I had quit the whole RP scene on different MMO scenes twice before because of reasons, and I hope It does not lead me that way again but so far the FFXIV community has been pretty good to me.
Smile

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - V'aleera - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 07:23 PM)Faye Wrote: As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole.
An understandable sentiment. On the few occasions I have had a bad experience with someone and felt the need to address their FC leader I have done so. But many of the people who play this game and are a part of this community are extremely conflict averse; when pressed they just want to put the situation behind them and not think about it anymore. At that point, lacking explicit details or proof, it would be disrespectful of both them and the FC leader to approach the FC leader.

With all that said, I am extremely unsympathetic to FCs who make it a habit of shifting blame to "bad apples". I come from EVE, where Alliances have codified and explicit rules which are enforced upon hundreds (if not thousands) of members with considerable efficacy. Granted, the communities and players of EVE have significantly more avenues to make a rulebreakers life in game a special kind of hell, but I maintain the opinion that a good FC is differentiated from a decent FC by rigid and strongly enforced rules and a thorough application policy. And I believe that good FC leaders and administrators need to have a strong understanding of not only how their community exists on its own, but how it exists in the environment of the server as a whole so that problems and perceptions can be addressed and remedied.

In short, maintaining an FC's PR is the sole responsibility of its owners and operators. I, nor anyone else, is obligated to find out if a bad apple is the norm or exception. Every member you bring into your FC is a representative of your FC to the entire community at large and I would urge every FC leader or operator to stress that point in bold, italics, and underlined large font.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Hammersmith - 06-24-2015

I had a stalker track me down on Balmung after they recognized the Hammersmith name (I am not good at pretending to be someone else)

They sent a "friend" out to probe questions out of me and, after a bit, I told them to fuck off and tell it to the stalker.

Then I talked to the FC leader of the "friend" who had been used as the go-between creeper.

I havn't heard from the creephat since.  I'm happy about that.

Sometimes the system does work

Use it.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Faye - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 08:03 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 07:23 PM)Faye Wrote: As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole.
An understandable sentiment. On the few occasions I have had a bad experience with someone and felt the need to address their FC leader I have done so. But many of the people who play this game and are a part of this community are extremely conflict averse; when pressed they just want to put the situation behind them and not think about it anymore. At that point, lacking explicit details or proof, it would be disrespectful of both them and the FC leader to approach the FC leader.

With all that said, I am extremely unsympathetic to FCs who make it a habit of shifting blame to "bad apples". I come from EVE, where Alliances have codified and explicit rules which are enforced upon hundreds (if not thousands) of members with considerable efficacy. Granted, the communities and players of EVE have significantly more avenues to make a rulebreakers life in game a special kind of hell, but I maintain the opinion that a good FC is differentiated from a decent FC by rigid and strongly enforced rules and a thorough application policy. And I believe that good FC leaders and administrators need to have a strong understanding of not only how their community exists on its own, but how it exists in the environment of the server as a whole so that problems and perceptions can be addressed and remedied.

In short, maintaining an FC's PR is the sole responsibility of its owners and operators. I, nor anyone else, is obligated to find out if a bad apple is the norm or exception. Every member you bring into your FC is a representative of your FC to the entire community at large and I would urge every FC leader or operator to stress that point in bold, italics, and underlined large font.

Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc. An FC's leaders are responsible for ensuring quality in their membership, but sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing make their way in. There's no foolproof way to prevent it, especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with. And certainly, it's no one's obligation to find it if someone behaving badly is an outlier or the norm, but negative assumptions are wont to breed more negativity.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Yune - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 07:30 PM)Elaris Wrote: Yeah I know what you mean, I try my best to not get involved in any of that but it can be hard when its constantly around ya. I have friends who do the very same, and I even find that I sometimes slip and jump on the drama bandwagon but that is very rarely.

I can understand that as well. When you speak to a person on a regular basis who mainly likes to gossip or use you as a sounding board for their heated opinions, it can sometimes get a little difficult to keep yourself from slipping up as well. And even if you do manage to keep your nose mostly clean from acting out on any unfair or misled biases, sometimes you end up being guilty simply by association to those who are a little more liberal with their opinions in the eyes of others.

(06-24-2015, 08:32 PM)Faye Wrote: Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc.
^And this. Very much this.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - V'aleera - 06-24-2015

(06-24-2015, 08:32 PM)Faye Wrote: especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with.
I would suggest, as a mere matter of personal experience, not dismissing a lengthy, intrusive, and detailed application process out of hand.

When I played EVE I joined and stuck with a single corporation: it was called EVE University and it was one of the largest and most famous corporations in the entire game. It catered explicitly to new players and functioned with the express purpose of teaching people how to play the game.

If you ever talk to anyone who has joined and been a part of the Uni in the past they'll likely tell you about how long and elaborate the application process was. At best you could expect to be in within a week of applying and doing an interview. But in the busier seasons when a lot of new players were coming into the game and being referred to the Uni there were wait times that could last for one or even two months before the mods who handled applications got to you. This long application wait time wound up becoming a sort of rite of passage and cultural landmark unique to the corporation. Something for members old, new, and aspiring to commiserate and bond over together.

Of course that long wait didn't exist in a vacuum; the Uni frequently hosted events open to those outside of its immediate membership (which some FCs like yours already do to an extent) and also had a chat channel open to use by members and non-members alike. Thus it was easy for anyone to be involved with the corporation, but it was a testament to patience and desire for someone to actually join.

And to tie back in to my original point, I think there's something to be said for only recruiting those people willing to jump through the hoops and wait out the application periods; because just by making that effort you know those people not only want to join you but are already invested in being a part of your community.

This approach doesn't work for everyone but I believe that it played a significant factor in creating one of the tightest, well-behaved, and most loyal online communities I've ever seen.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - ArmachiA - 06-25-2015

Even with a long drawn out application, bad people will slip threw. I have stories, I have so many stories of people we thought were decent, didn't raise any red flags and eventually were shown to be incredibly manipulative or drama filled.

On the other hand, really, what your FC puts out could be seen very differently by very different people. My FC is well known for being lore compliant, which we think is a GOOD thing. There are people out there though, who believes that makes us babysitters and elitist. People's perceptions of your FC will be marred regardless. We put a lot of work into making people in the FC feel welcome, and we've gotten more than a few "You guys are way friendlier and inclusive then some people told me." All because of my posts on here about liking, and following, lore.

Controlling your FC rep is hard to do, you can't watch your members all the time and you have no idea who's going to end up ruining the reputation of your guild. As an FC leader when you hear "One person can ruin your FCs rep" it is INCREDIBLY stressful because it feels like I have to police everyone in my FC all the time and I don't like doing that. I am one person, trying to control the actions of 70 others is nearly impossible.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Shuck - 06-25-2015

Here comes the part where I show up in a thread.

I'll start off by saying: Hey, OP. Welcome to the party! This is how roleplayers do. It's how they do everywhere, in literally every single game. They will claim maturity, and reason, and inclusiveness, etc.

What this actually translates to is: If you are willing to join in the hugbox, you can stay. If you disagree with someone, or don't give the proper/expected accolades and backpats, you are an elitist/troll/fake roleplayer/dick/literally the devil.

I say this from experience. It's a wild ride, let me tell you.

Anyway,

(06-24-2015, 09:36 AM)LadyRochester Wrote: You don't counter harassment with more harassment, you don't counter the truth with lies (or even "half-truths"), and you certainly don't fix a problem between two (or more) players by spreading the word and attempting to get the whole community involved. Those who claim that this "helps" the community are lying to others and themselves.

I have never encountered a community that so successfully managed to harass and harm people while deluding themselves into thinking they are innocent and doing it for "the better". Harassment is not cool, and regardless of your issues with other players, talking shit and bending the truth to make yourself look better DOES NOT make you a better person. You have a problem? Keep it between you and the player, spreading the fire is not only counter-productive, but it makes you look like shit. This isn't high school.

As much as I love this bit? And I do. Sincerely, I do: You will never get these people here, or any roleplayers anywhere else to accept this. Ever. Man, I remember back during the last time me and mine were around here? We were told that we were "fake" roleplayers for pointing out a problem with an event's narrative. The dude in question didn't do his research, tried to pawn a widely known plot point/fact of the setting as a new development, and when our characters stood up and said "Yo, this is not news", it was decided, unanimously, that Misericorde was a "troll FC", and not real roleplayers.

We've also been told that our realism isn't welcome in this world/community. When we had linkshell leader's meetings (I don't know if those still happen.) There was chatter amongst the leaders present of "taking care of troublemakers".

What I'm saying is: Much like Ron Perlman says, war never changes. The root cause of that is that people don't change. Roleplayers, as a whole, are some impossible motherfuckers, and will always be impossible motherfuckers.

That doesn't mean don't try to rock the boat, though. Please do.

Good on you for expressing yourself, though. Good fuckin' luck after the fact, because they will probably never take you back now.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Dis - 06-25-2015

I'm one of those people who trash talks.  That said, someone usually has to do something so shitty it makes me genuinely furious in order to push me to that limit.  Most of the problems I've had with people in the community at all have been strictly OOC drama, and those were mostly players I migrated into 14 with.  Since I've joined, I don't think I've had a bit of drama that's been genuinely IC that's caused me to rant/vent about another player.  However, those players I have had issues with, I've warned those who I've come in contact with who get 'close' to them.  Usually something along the lines of "There was this drama, so be careful you don't get entrenched in it."

Otherwise, I'm not willing to say anything behind someone's back that I won't say to their face.  That probably makes me seem like a pretty nasty individual, but I just don't believe in saying it about them if I'm not willing to say it in front of them.  That said, even my OOC issues, I've just kind of given the shoulder lately.  Even the worst drama I had wasn't worth holding on to, because it limited my interactions with people because I was avoiding certain players.  So I just started playing where I wanted, when I wanted, and I've been having a lot of fun with it.  

That said, I understand where OP is coming from.  People tend to be pretty toxic to each other during any kind of conflict.  It happens, it really does.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Uther - 06-25-2015

(06-25-2015, 02:19 AM)Shuck Wrote: I remember back during the last time me and mine were around here? We were told that we were "fake" roleplayers for pointing out a problem with an event's narrative. The dude in question didn't do his research, tried to pawn a widely known plot point/fact of the setting as a new development, and when our characters stood up and said "Yo, this is not news", it was decided, unanimously, that Misericorde was a "troll FC", and not real roleplayers.

We've also been told that our realism isn't welcome in this world/community.

Haha yeah... Good times.

Anyways, when it comes to OP's complaint and probably everything else said here (I didn't read all of it because what are you nuts? I have shit to do. Like play Mario and die a little inside for not having friends.): This is kind of a standard hazard for any social group. People will start "drama" and gossip and exclude others for silly reasons, like disliking a character's hat or something. Everyone is going to talk behind everyone's back. Seriously, if your name isn't Shuck, Orlog, or Zarek (that's right, buddy. You're on my good list. Welcome to the sleazy life), chances are I've linked something dumb you've said to someone else and said "look at this guy." Unless you've only said things I like, in which case I haven't.

I'm rambling for the sake of poor humor. In any case, I see the frustration in OP's OP. I get it. I'm right there with you. Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast. Everyone here will tell you "THOSE PEOPLE THAT DO THAT ARE THE WORST" and to "Surround yourself with positive people who value you for you" and apparently no one here would ever stoop that low. But we do. We pick stupid reasons not to like people, and we find people with the same feelings and complain together. 

My advice to you would be to keep on keepin' on. As Shuck said, a few years ago the people who knew about Misericorde (we're really not that popular, but we like to think we are) did not like us. They just can't handle playas who keep it real nawmsayin. And there are probably a few people who still don't like us. But you just have to ignore it and be more cautious in making friends. No need to cry over spilled milk. 

I'm barely awake right now, and I no longer remember the topic of this conversation. Something about drama and gossip and people getting mad OOC for IC shit. Those people that do that are the worst. Surround yourself with positive people who value you for you. No one in this community would ever stoop that low.

Always remember:
[Image: haters-gonna-hate-batman-rollerblading.jpg]

I'm outie 5000. Smell ya later.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Dogshin - 06-25-2015

(06-24-2015, 03:09 PM)Verad Wrote: I'd like to know what triggered this relevant and useful PSA full of information that people didn't know.

Hahahaha my man just set them on fire

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Rahz Jakkari - 06-25-2015

To be honest, I'm not sure I know a community where these things don't happen, be it in games, RP, forums, real life. It sucks, but people are people. All anyone can truly do is move on.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Erik Mynhier - 06-25-2015

(06-24-2015, 08:32 PM)Faye Wrote: Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc. An FC's leaders are responsible for ensuring quality in their membership, but sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing make their way in. There's no foolproof way to prevent it, especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with. And certainly, it's no one's obligation to find it if someone behaving badly is an outlier or the norm, but negative assumptions are wont to breed more negativity.

Amen sister, both to the regret statement and needed quality control process. Ever since we added a process (its odd how we do it ive been told by members, but they like it) our members are happy, I'm happy, and we grow better as word of moth spreads. The good people we have in here I attribute to the advice you gave me to step up and take charge back awhile ago. Not just quality control at adding but a continual eye on things. As you see clicks form, harassment start, or just general meanness, as a group leader you have to catch it and fix it if possible.

RE: OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant) - Aaron - 06-25-2015

(06-25-2015, 03:19 AM)Rutherford Wrote: To be honest, I'm not sure I know a community where these things don't happen, be it in games, RP, forums, real life. It sucks, but people are people. All anyone can truly do is move on.
I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

/pushes away fries

Too much salt I don't want it anymore.