(03-20-2015, 04:07 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(03-20-2015, 03:51 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: I think what makes a good villain is what also makes a good hero - well roundedness. A Villian should be just as fleshed out as a hero would be, having motivations behind what they do beyond "I am evil".

That's it, really.

Even Hedonistic Villains can fall into under umbrella, provided they are fleshed out well enough. There are plenty of very good Hedonistic Villains in fiction and as long as they aren't pressuring or harassing me for ERP, they can be a hedonistic as they like.

The problem is, as Verad says. Many villains aren't logical or have good motivations. That's part of what makes villains scary. They don't play by the same rules as 'normal' people.

I think many villains do have good reasons for why they're doing what they're doing. However I don't think it's a prerequisite.

(03-23-2015, 01:01 AM)Zhavi Wrote:

(03-20-2015, 04:07 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(03-20-2015, 03:51 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: I think what makes a good villain is what also makes a good hero - well roundedness. A Villian should be just as fleshed out as a hero would be, having motivations behind what they do beyond "I am evil".

That's it, really.

Even Hedonistic Villains can fall into under umbrella, provided they are fleshed out well enough. There are plenty of very good Hedonistic Villains in fiction and as long as they aren't pressuring or harassing me for ERP, they can be a hedonistic as they like.

The problem is, as Verad says. Many villains aren't logical or have good motivations. That's part of what makes villains scary. They don't play by the same rules as 'normal' people.

I think many villains do have good reasons for why they're doing what they're doing. However I don't think it's a prerequisite.

Why not?  Some of the most villainous people in our history were very logical in their thinking and to them and those who followed them had perfectly good motivations.

To some people in the world, your country/culture is villainous (and no, I don't necessarily mean the most obvious example for us western folks).  It can be a matter of cultural or historical reasoning, or religious or personal.  Just because they aren't necessarily good motivations to you doesn't make that a universal truth.  There's all sorts of people and perceptions in the world, and that counts for fictional worlds too.

(03-23-2015, 01:13 AM)Verad Wrote:

(03-23-2015, 01:01 AM)Zhavi Wrote:

(03-20-2015, 04:07 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(03-20-2015, 03:51 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: I think what makes a good villain is what also makes a good hero - well roundedness. A Villian should be just as fleshed out as a hero would be, having motivations behind what they do beyond "I am evil".

That's it, really.

Even Hedonistic Villains can fall into under umbrella, provided they are fleshed out well enough. There are plenty of very good Hedonistic Villains in fiction and as long as they aren't pressuring or harassing me for ERP, they can be a hedonistic as they like.

The problem is, as Verad says. Many villains aren't logical or have good motivations. That's part of what makes villains scary. They don't play by the same rules as 'normal' people.

I think many villains do have good reasons for why they're doing what they're doing. However I don't think it's a prerequisite.

Why not?  Some of the most villainous people in our history were very logical in their thinking and to them and those who followed them had perfectly good motivations.

To some people in the world, your country/culture is villainous (and no, I don't necessarily mean the most obvious example for us western folks).  It can be a matter of cultural or historical reasoning, or religious or personal.  Just because they aren't necessarily good motivations to you doesn't make that a universal truth.  There's all sorts of people and perceptions in the world, and that counts for fictional worlds too.

Subjectivity is all well and good, but the point is more that for every logical and methodical villain with motivations that make perfect sense from their perspective if you look at it from that, there are as many who are illogical, irrational, or intentionally lacking in understandable motivation.

One isn't better than the other. But both exist.

(03-23-2015, 01:21 AM)Zhavi Wrote: Meh, it's my opinion that a vast majority of people tend to make sense, even if purely to themselves, over those who don't (which is why psychology took off the way it did and why good marketing pays off). I guess that's because it's my opinion that 99 times out of 100, characters built who are illogical, irrational or intentionally lacking in understandable motivation are sloppily made, with the onus of that burden being not on the villain, but the creator of the villain.