(03-12-2015, 09:31 PM)Knight Kat Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 02:29 PM)Verad Wrote: I strongly dislike when the leader of an RP FC has both an OOC and IC position of authority.* 

I've often found that in other MMOs, such guilds lend themselves towards cults of personality and the encouraging of abusive and predatory behavior on the part of the leader. Often, people join the FC on the strength of their roleplay with the leader without considering whether the rest of the FC will be as entertaining, and it encourages plots to be about The Adventures of FC Leader and Supporting Cast.

None of the above is universally true, of course, but I've seen it happen enough, especially within the "House RP" community of World of Warcraft, that I am leery of any FC with a history describing how so-and-so leader is central to the foundations of the group.

*Disclaimer - Dubious Distributions positions Verad and myself as the OOC and IC authority within the FC. I am extremely uncomfortable with this position and fight it by mocking his actual level of authority over anybody in the FC whenever possible. Take that for what you will.

So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

(03-12-2015, 11:21 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 09:31 PM)Knight Kat Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 02:29 PM)Verad Wrote: I strongly dislike when the leader of an RP FC has both an OOC and IC position of authority.* 

I've often found that in other MMOs, such guilds lend themselves towards cults of personality and the encouraging of abusive and predatory behavior on the part of the leader. Often, people join the FC on the strength of their roleplay with the leader without considering whether the rest of the FC will be as entertaining, and it encourages plots to be about The Adventures of FC Leader and Supporting Cast.

None of the above is universally true, of course, but I've seen it happen enough, especially within the "House RP" community of World of Warcraft, that I am leery of any FC with a history describing how so-and-so leader is central to the foundations of the group.

*Disclaimer - Dubious Distributions positions Verad and myself as the OOC and IC authority within the FC. I am extremely uncomfortable with this position and fight it by mocking his actual level of authority over anybody in the FC whenever possible. Take that for what you will.

So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

When I ran the Night Blades, my character was in no position of authority. Armi just isn't very authoritative in character, so she was a regular grunt (PR), however my fiance was the IC Leader. You're right, you basically have to communicate very closely with your IC leader to make sure everything is being run correctly.I wouldn't give it too a stranger, but someone who's a friend who's character is more suited for the position.
IC officers generally weren't OOC officers because people who played authoritative characters icly may not be very good at actually officership oocly and visa versa.
In our FC - those are two different roles.

However, things have kind of lined up lately and Ellion recently took over the guild oocly - meaning he's the head ic and ooc and a few of our officers are ICly also officers. This is actually a coincidence.

HOWEVER, I don't really see an issue with the FC leader oocly being the leader ICly. It works a lot of time, don't know why people have an issue with it.

(03-12-2015, 11:46 PM)Kou Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 11:21 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 09:31 PM)Knight Kat Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 02:29 PM)Verad Wrote: I strongly dislike when the leader of an RP FC has both an OOC and IC position of authority.* 

I've often found that in other MMOs, such guilds lend themselves towards cults of personality and the encouraging of abusive and predatory behavior on the part of the leader. Often, people join the FC on the strength of their roleplay with the leader without considering whether the rest of the FC will be as entertaining, and it encourages plots to be about The Adventures of FC Leader and Supporting Cast.

None of the above is universally true, of course, but I've seen it happen enough, especially within the "House RP" community of World of Warcraft, that I am leery of any FC with a history describing how so-and-so leader is central to the foundations of the group.

*Disclaimer - Dubious Distributions positions Verad and myself as the OOC and IC authority within the FC. I am extremely uncomfortable with this position and fight it by mocking his actual level of authority over anybody in the FC whenever possible. Take that for what you will.

So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

When I ran the Night Blades, my character was in no position of authority. Armi just isn't very authoritative in character, so she was a regular grunt (PR), however my fiance was the IC Leader. You're right, you basically have to communicate very closely with your IC leader to make sure everything is being run correctly.I wouldn't give it too a stranger, but someone who's a friend who's character is more suited for the position.
IC officers generally weren't OOC officers because people who played authoritative characters icly may not be very good at actually officership oocly and visa versa.
In our FC - those are two different roles.

However, things have kind of lined up lately and Ellion recently took over the guild oocly - meaning he's the head ic and ooc and a few of our officers are ICly also officers. This is actually a coincidence.

HOWEVER, I don't really see an issue with the FC leader oocly being the leader ICly. It works a lot of time, don't know why people have an issue with it.

I've personally run a guild/FC/whatever-you-want-to-call-it both IC and OOC. I'm significantly better at OOC leading, however. IC, my characters tend to wind up in those positions entirely on accident.

I've also seen people as both IC and OOC leads. Sometimes it works fantastically, and sometimes it doesn't. I personally believe it comes down to an individual level. Some people are fantastic leaders, both IC and OOC. Some people are power-hungry megalomaniacs that need a good clonk on the head. Note: This isn't an attack on anyone, simply a statement designed entirely for humourous purposes.

Personally, I think FCs/Guilds/Clans are run better with a council of sorts. Having a single leader making all the executive decisions is, actually, what turns me off (hey, look, topic!)

(03-13-2015, 12:51 AM)Madda Wrote: Madda also doesn't like it when people tell Mada to stop saying Madda all the time.

(03-12-2015, 11:46 PM)Kou Wrote: Some people are power-hungry megalomaniacs that need a good clonk on the head. Note: This isn't an attack on anyone, simply a statement designed entirely for humourous purposes.

(03-12-2015, 11:14 PM)Maia Wrote:

(03-12-2015, 09:31 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

I had the same wonder/concern, Kiht, but after I reviewed it with others, I think the idea being presented is more an aversion to the "egocult" that stems from one person having too much IC + OoC power. But Verad also mentioned that while this is a tendency he's seen often, it isn't universally true. There're just some bad eggs out there who have made an unfortunate stereotype of running things both IC and OoC for their own benefit, as opposed to the benefit of the Guild.

But I feel that in our instance, (assuming that we are similar?) we utilize the IC authority as a vehicle to bring power and entertainment to everyone else, as opposed to relegating others to the status of NPC while your character is clearly the Main Hero.

I use Maia to conduct and run one RP event per week, to post IC information and bulletins on our bulletin board, to delegate tasks to others via personalized IC Moogle Mail, and to coordinate and run our monthly public event. It's a lot of OoC work, and I can't imagine another person in the LS taking up the mantle and doing all of that over a concept that isn't even their own, haha. Sometimes it even feels like she's just "leader NPC" rather than an actual character, just because I use her to instigate interesting things for others more than explore her personal whatever. On top of that, she was initially elected quite unwittingly and without any prompting from me OoCly or ICly - I was oddly surprised at the time.

I could be totally off the mark, but that's what I've come to understand after some thought and discussion on my end of things.

Quote:I'm constantly seeing things like Ishgard characters OOCly looking for other Ishgard characters that they can't seem to find. Really? I know of way too many Ishgard characters now. How can you not find each other?!

(03-13-2015, 07:18 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Then, of course, there's more legitimate reasons such as real life getting in the way or operating on a conflicting schedule.