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Telluride · **05-13-2015, 12:57 AM**

(05-13-2015, 12:42 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Comparing Steps of Faith to Wildstar's gating isn't fair in my opinion. Nor does it have anything to do with 'elitism' for people to not want content to be made simple to the point where it becomes very trivial.

I can understand why they did it but it risks setting an unfortunate trend. We've already seen Pharos Sirius hit with the nerfbat and that was completely optional. It wasn't tied to the main scenario quests.

But that's the point.

I agree that Pharos didn't have to be nerfed. The only thing Pharos gates is... other instances. Not the main story. Not... an entire new zone full of wondrous flying mounts that we are gonna pay more for.

A game does need challenging content, but this is a very, very delicate time for FFXIV. It's not just a patch with a new raid and dungeon. It's not just adding the Ninja. This is their big investment, what they're using to keep us subscribed and pull in lapsed and new customers.

I DO compare this to Wildstar, because I remember what a smack it was doing just the FIRST dungeons in that game. We're talking a difficulty curve that could launch things into orbit.

SoF was going to be a smack like that.

You're going to get your challenges - wasn't it already said that level 130 gear was going to stop being useful after level 55, you know, which will take all of 1-3 days for a lot of people to get to.... and then it's back to needing new dungeons and instances for gearing up.

Meanwhile, some people who don't wanna hit the Challenge Wall yet... YET... are just going to be happy flying around on dragons and griffins and chocobos, like they paid $30 to $120 to do. Let these people have their fun. Don't gate them. They're helping to pay for the game as much as you are. THIS is why I compared it to Wildstar, because this was the lesson that Carbine needed to learn: Filthy Casuals Also Have Money. When everyone's done flying around, they'll come back down, learn the new content, and enjoy the challenges.

Give them this chance.

Zyrusticae · **05-13-2015, 12:58 AM**

"slightly challenging"

If it were "slightly challenging", it wouldn't have been nerfed.

Expert dungeons are "slightly challenging", at least at first. Getting players to do things they never did before is an entirely different level of challenge.

CalebAgron · **05-13-2015, 08:04 AM**

I for one am jumping for joy that SoF got nerfed and here is why.

I'm a nice guy, except for when it comes to PVE. When it comes to PVE I fully admit to being a complete and utter asshole. I'm the type of player who will look up videos of a fight, study it, and know what to expect before I attempt to join a que. I've played mmorpg's for years now, and on several games have been a serious raider. Not in this game, but on others like WoW, SWTOR etc.

So when I go into a trial or dung or whatever, I know what the fuck I'm doing. I got too much shit that needs doin to be wasting my time wiping on stuff I know -I- am capable of beating. And so it infuriates me to no end when people cant learn simple mechanics. Content that has been out for months now, and people are still just running into a brick wall head first and hoping for the best. That's not how shit works, most places have mechanics, and if you cant do them, you fail.

In short, I'm glad it was nerfed, and would rather it be dumbed down so that for those who can't perform the most basic of tasks wont prevent me from getting my daily and gtfo.

Lottie · **05-13-2015, 08:18 AM**

(05-13-2015, 08:04 AM)CalebAgron Wrote: I for one am jumping for joy that SoF got nerfed and here is why.

I'm a nice guy, except for when it comes to PVE. When it comes to PVE I fully admit to being a complete and utter asshole. I'm the type of player who will look up videos of a fight, study it, and know what to expect before I attempt to join a que. I've played mmorpg's for years now, and on several games have been a serious raider. Not in this game, but on others like WoW, SWTOR etc.

So when I go into a trial or dung or whatever, I know what the fuck I'm doing. I got too much shit that needs doin to be wasting my time wiping on stuff I know -I- am capable of beating. And so it infuriates me to no end when people cant learn simple mechanics. Content that has been out for months now, and people are still just running into a brick wall head first and hoping for the best. That's not how shit works, most places have mechanics, and if you cant do them, you fail.

In short, I'm glad it was nerfed, and would rather it be dumbed down so that for those who can't perform the most basic of tasks wont prevent me from getting my daily and gtfo.

And not even just running into a brick wall but flat out refusing to perform any mechanics at all after being explained. I'd have to be relieved for it being nerfed too because the arguments caused with random people in DF for this possible eight minute run isn't worth it.

Do I still like it? Of course I do. I found it different than a regular dungeon and had a fun time overall. I failed, a bunch. Especially with his feet. But I kept at it with my guildies and we tore through it in under eight minutes - now it's just a thing of the past for me which I hope that SE provides more in the future. It's something different.Â

But it's as Caleb said, there's mehanics involved in this trial as there is in any other dungeon- whether we're talking about FFXIV or any other MMO. If you need help; just ask. There are plenty of people out there who would have it previewed in Party Finder and even more so people you may know personally who wouldn't mind having you around.

What I don't condone though, and had to tell some who wanted mine or friends help, is carrying people. I'll help you run through this thing, walk you through how to do it and make sure your screen isn't full of dragon butt while doing it - but I won't carry you and let you walk away from SoF without learning something of the fight.

Warren Castille · **05-13-2015, 09:09 AM**

Uncomfortable question time:

How many people were wiping because they themselves didn't understand or couldn't perform the mechanics? How many times did you wipe because someone else didn't know what they were doing? Did they continue to fail even after explaining?

Did you then take over the role to do it correctly?

Cato · **05-13-2015, 09:16 AM**

(05-13-2015, 09:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Uncomfortable question time:

How many people were wiping because they themselves didn't understand or couldn't perform the mechanics? How many times did you wipe because someone else didn't know what they were doing? Did they continue to fail even after explaining?

Did you then take over the role to do it correctly?

I jumped into Steps of Faith the day it arrived without knowing what to expect. I figured out what to do pretty quickly and the group I was in ended up completing it on our second attempt.

I ran it a few times after that purely for my own enjoyment because I found the place intriguing and fun. If people didn't know what they were doing I offered friendly advice. If they still didn't listen I cut my losses and left.

Then I tried again later. It's an approach I've taken with pretty much every piece of content in the game. Sometimes I'm left with a group that can't be salvaged, other times I get lucky and we one shot stuff or succeed after a few failed attempts.

I feel as though some people let themselves remember the negative experiences and then ignore the good ones. The probability of someone getting a bad group in every other run is pretty low - especially given how FFXIV's community has been widely praised across many sites for being one of the most friendly and helpful out of all the current mainstream MMO's.

Warren Castille · **05-13-2015, 09:23 AM**

I think that just fixed my disconnect. Steps puts the onus entirely on the players to not fuck it up. Compare pressing a button at the right time to, say, dodging Landslide or positioning meteors or doing lots of other mechanics. It's typically Thing Happens > Player Reacts.

Steps is just Player Acts. Fucking up snares and Dragon Killers? Entirely someone's fault. You can't claim lag made you eat Landslide, or awkward positioning made bombs get you, and a lot of the standard excuses (I didn't see it, or didn't notice, or stood in AoE, or whatever) fall off. It's you, the button, and the dragon, and fucking that up is entirely on the person fucking up.

I'd liken it to the added pressure of tanking - People shy away from responsible roles in public because no one wants to be That Guy who wiped the group by making mistakes. Steps of Faith made a whole instance out of it, and typically puts the blame right on the DPS players.

...or I could just be guessing.

Gegenji · **05-13-2015, 09:39 AM**

Sounds a lot like the Ultros fight - putting the Onus on the DPS to be in front of Ultros when imped so they can collect that water, and then using it on Typhon to interrupt him.

The big issue, again, is the punishment for failure. Ultros does it once with no complications (and if you have three DPS on the ball, the fourth can slack and be fine), and then again while Typhon is splitting the stage into slowly rotating halves (which is less forgiving). And if they fail? Typhon sneezes everyone off and you get to start over right away.

Meanwhile, Steps has you waiting until Vishap makes his slow trip until the end and the watching of an unskippable cutscene before you can try again.

Kage · **05-13-2015, 09:42 AM**

Depends on the dps really. Most* would prefer a tank and/or healer to take 2 of the 3 "mechanics". Cannons or Giantkiller.

A lot of people seem to never get cannons/snares the very first time for some reason.

I have a -lot- of Duty Finder/Trials Roulette Steps clears when people don't drop at the beginning or at the first wipe. The 2nd run is when it seems people get it and it works. For most.

Then you have the derps and those times I can't help it.

It's like when WoD has issues. I wish I could carry up to 23 people but I can't. So I just deal. And silently or linkshell bitch about how much it hurts.

Kellach Woods · **05-13-2015, 03:20 PM**

(05-13-2015, 09:09 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Uncomfortable question time:

How many people were wiping because they themselves didn't understand or couldn't perform the mechanics? How many times did you wipe because someone else didn't know what they were doing? Did they continue to fail even after explaining?

Did you then take over the role to do it correctly?

I queued as Tank. I have the easiest time around there. Bring 'em in front for the cannons to rip 'em.

Only time I had problems was to dodge Vishap's swinge and other things like that.

Aya · **05-13-2015, 03:22 PM**

I still haven't done SoF.Â I guess I won't have to do the pre-nerf version! \o/

Chris Ganale · **05-13-2015, 03:29 PM**

It took my group....two? Three? On day one. It was partially-preformed, myself, both healers, one tank, and another dps were all from my FC. The rest were pugs but not idiots. After the first wipe where we spent the time going "what the hell are we doing" we got it together and didn't push fast enough the second time, but then nailed him on round three. This after unknowingly gimping ourselves by having me and my fellow DRG--of which we were the premier DPS of the group because of our ilevels--spend the fight on cannons. But we were magnificent cannoneers, let me tell you now. I still wish I got to do cannons all the time whenever we do Steps now, but I'll settle for stabbing the shit out of the dragon and then pushing the Big Buttons.

Cato · **05-14-2015, 07:06 AM**

(05-13-2015, 03:22 PM)Aya Wrote: I still haven't done SoF.Â I guess I won't have to do the pre-nerf version! \o/

That's a shame - you'll miss out on all the fun! As hectic as some people found it the need for mechanics to be adhered to tightly made it truly feel like a race against time. I'm glad I got to experience it early on in all its glory.

Zelmanov · **05-14-2015, 07:38 AM**

In response to Warren:

Did it with a bunch of randoms day one at about 11 am. Took us 3 tries, 1 to see what was going one, a 2nd to try and organize and the 3rd to put it into the coffin. Luckily the insane people that can do Steps of Faith at 11 am on a Tuesday tend to be the ones that listen and are actually looking to clear instead of carry so they actually listened to strategy and advice.

I was the one that took charge to formulate the strategy and thankfully my standoffish attitude didn't turn them away.

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XIV Updated - SoF Nerfed!

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