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McBeefâ„¢ · **06-11-2015, 07:40 PM**

I liked the force sync, and I hope they keep 3.0 syncs until 4.0 comes out. It forced new players to learn their classes, and not just gain 10 levels and come back later to steamroll satasha.

Kellach Woods · **06-11-2015, 07:52 PM**

They're trying it out now.
We'll see how successful it is, and chances are if it worked they'll keep it the same in 4.0

Caspar · **06-11-2015, 09:24 PM**

I'm mostly excited about this as it might apply to Savage Coil, and I missed out on doing that when the item levels were appropriate. While I could beat it now, it would be meaningless without the appropriate challenge of lower ilevel gear.

Naunet · **06-12-2015, 02:23 AM**

(06-11-2015, 07:40 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I liked the force sync, and I hope they keep 3.0 syncs until 4.0 comes out. It forced new players to learn their classes, and not just gain 10 levels and come back later to steamroll satasha.

XD When did you have to learn your class in order to succeed in Sastasha? Or... most leveling dungeons? I tanked that on my baby CNJ while two-manning it with my husband because our other two party members d/ced and never came back...

Pick your battles...

Kellach Woods · **06-12-2015, 07:36 AM**

CNJ can effectively tank anything up until Haukke/Brayflox NM I think.

Zyrusticae · **06-14-2015, 02:31 AM**

(06-12-2015, 02:23 AM)Naunet Wrote: XD When did you have to learn your class in order to succeed in Sastasha? Or... most leveling dungeons? I tanked that on my baby CNJ while two-manning it with my husband because our other two party members d/ced and never came back...

Pick your battles...

Brayflox requires the tank to know how to dodge, hold aggro, and pull the boss out of lingering AoEs, the DPS to manage adds and not suck terribly, while the healer must know how to manage MP or go OOM especially during the final boss fight.

It's all really, really basic stuff, but it's pretty jarring at times how often you run into people who don't even know the basics.

Qarn, on the other hand, is a whole other ball of wax. If people know and pay attention to the mechanics, it's pretty easy. If they can't? Nothing will save you. Especially if they can't DOOODGE the beams of light at the end.

Unfortunately, the dungeons never really exceed Qarn NM in terms of overall difficulty. Most of them are rough the first and second time, but after that everyone just goes on auto pilot because they have the mechanics memorized by heart and none of them really require more than just basic knowledge of the mechanics to succeed.

Well, except for Aurum Vale. It's literally the only dungeon in the game that requires precise management of aggro radii. It's far too easy to pull more than you intended in there. And the worst part is that that particular skill becomes useless later on since no other dungeon has a layout so dense with mobs (and for good reason, really).

Regardless if you succeed or not, however, there's definitely a HUGE difference in efficiency between a party that knows what it's doing and a party that... doesn't. The worst part about leveling a DPS class is running into a party where the tank doesn't know even how to use chain skills and the healer keeps running OOM or spams stone while ignoring the tank's HP bar. Sure, you might still get through the dungeon in the end, but it's always a grueling experience that could be improved with just very small changes. Unfortunately, the people who contribute to that may never really understand just how bad they are...

McBeefâ„¢ · **06-14-2015, 02:46 AM**

(06-14-2015, 02:31 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(06-12-2015, 02:23 AM)Naunet Wrote: XD When did you have to learn your class in order to succeed in Sastasha? Or... most leveling dungeons? I tanked that on my baby CNJ while two-manning it with my husband because our other two party members d/ced and never came back...

Pick your battles...

Brayflox requires the tank to know how to dodge, hold aggro, and pull the boss out of lingering AoEs, the DPS to manage adds and not suck terribly, while the healer must know how to manage MP or go OOM especially during the final boss fight.

It's all really, really basic stuff, but it's pretty jarring at times how often you run into people who don't even know the basics.

Qarn, on the other hand, is a whole other ball of wax. If people know and pay attention to the mechanics, it's pretty easy. If they can't? Nothing will save you. Especially if they can't DOOODGE the beams of light at the end.

Unfortunately, the dungeons never really exceed Qarn NM in terms of overall difficulty. Most of them are rough the first and second time, but after that everyone just goes on auto pilot because they have the mechanics memorized by heart and none of them really require more than just basic knowledge of the mechanics to succeed.

Well, except for Aurum Vale. It's literally the only dungeon in the game that requires precise management of aggro radii. It's far too easy to pull more than you intended in there. And the worst part is that that particular skill becomes useless later on since no other dungeon has a layout so dense with mobs (and for good reason, really).

Regardless if you succeed or not, however, there's definitely a HUGE difference in efficiency between a party that knows what it's doing and a party that... doesn't. The worst part about leveling a DPS class is running into a party where the tank doesn't know even how to use chain skills and the healer keeps running OOM or spams stone while ignoring the tank's HP bar. Sure, you might still get through the dungeon in the end, but it's always a grueling experience that could be improved with just very small changes. Unfortunately, the people who contribute to that may never really understand just how bad they are...

I agree. I think Brayflox is sort of a transformative experience.

"Maybe I don't know my role as well as I thought."

Especially for healers and tanks. If people could just gain 10 levels and come back, they'd never have to face that realization. As you say, they're not hard for people who know their jobs. But they do force you to learn your job.

Steel Wolf · **06-14-2015, 07:32 AM**

(06-14-2015, 02:46 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I agree. I think Brayflox is sort of a transformative experience.

"Maybe I don't know my role as well as I thought."

QFT. I've said it before in other threads, but that and Stone Vigil were dungeons that demanded that I step it up when I was leveling my PLD. Add to that the murder machine that was the game's lag point at launch and it made me wake up and pay attention.

Kellach Woods · **06-14-2015, 09:42 AM**

(06-14-2015, 02:46 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I agree. I think Brayflox is sort of a transformative experience.

"Maybe I don't know my role as well as I thought."

Especially for healers and tanks. If people could just gain 10 levels and come back, they'd never have to face that realization. As you say, they're not hard for people who know their jobs. But they do force you to learn your job.

Brayflox is also one where one class clearly is superior at their role than the other due to Esuna being learned earlier than Leeches, at least, in the learning process.

If everyone knows what they're doing then there's obviously no real difference since the SCH will mitigate the extra poison damage easily, but when you're just learning? Hoo boy.

Naunet · **06-14-2015, 11:15 AM**

(06-14-2015, 02:31 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(06-12-2015, 02:23 AM)Naunet Wrote: XD When did you have to learn your class in order to succeed in Sastasha? Or... most leveling dungeons? I tanked that on my baby CNJ while two-manning it with my husband because our other two party members d/ced and never came back...

Pick your battles...

Brayflox requires the tank to know how to dodge, hold aggro, and pull the boss out of lingering AoEs, the DPS to manage adds and not suck terribly, while the healer must know how to manage MP or go OOM especially during the final boss fight.

It's all really, really basic stuff, but it's pretty jarring at times how often you run into people who don't even know the basics.

Qarn, on the other hand, is a whole other ball of wax. If people know and pay attention to the mechanics, it's pretty easy. If they can't? Nothing will save you. Especially if they can't DOOODGE the beams of light at the end.

I honestly think you're overstating the difficulty of those dungeons - a bad player is a bad player (especially a healer... not healing) and is going to make something feel harder than it actually is no matter what. xD But I sincerely doubt a bad player would even bother going back to Sastasha or Brayflox or whatever.

If by "force you to learn your job", you mean "Oh, I actually rolled a healing class?", then... I'm not sure I care about catering to that level of derp. Never ran into much trouble when running dungeons anyway, so meh.

Zelmanov · **06-14-2015, 11:57 AM**

I'm gonna come back as i170 to Thousand maws of Totorak and smash its face in. Oh it will feel SO GOOD

McBeefâ„¢ · **06-14-2015, 03:45 PM**

(06-14-2015, 11:15 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(06-14-2015, 02:31 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(06-12-2015, 02:23 AM)Naunet Wrote: XD When did you have to learn your class in order to succeed in Sastasha? Or... most leveling dungeons? I tanked that on my baby CNJ while two-manning it with my husband because our other two party members d/ced and never came back...

Pick your battles...

Brayflox requires the tank to know how to dodge, hold aggro, and pull the boss out of lingering AoEs, the DPS to manage adds and not suck terribly, while the healer must know how to manage MP or go OOM especially during the final boss fight.

It's all really, really basic stuff, but it's pretty jarring at times how often you run into people who don't even know the basics.

Qarn, on the other hand, is a whole other ball of wax. If people know and pay attention to the mechanics, it's pretty easy. If they can't? Nothing will save you. Especially if they can't DOOODGE the beams of light at the end.

I honestly think you're overstating the difficulty of those dungeons - a bad player is a bad player (especially a healer... not healing) and is going to make something feel harder than it actually is no matter what. xD But I sincerely doubt a bad player would even bother going back to Sastasha or Brayflox or whatever.

If by "force you to learn your job", you mean "Oh, I actually rolled a healing class?", then... I'm not sure I care about catering to that level of derp. Never ran into much trouble when running dungeons anyway, so meh.

Good to know you are so pro at this game.

Spethah · **06-17-2015, 06:11 AM**

Wow I come back after a PC explosion and see people debating over low level dungeons and skill level. Glad to know that my experience of learning a healing role and having trouble in Brayflox back then makes me a bad player. No longer no one wants to run stuff with me.Â

Anyway, I did a triple check on the content for the unsync function and people are still pointing at 2.55 content only, so nothing on 3.0 which is good I guess.

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