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Verad · **03-17-2016, 01:49 AM**

(03-17-2016, 01:39 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 12:49 AM)Verad Wrote: Interacting with named NPCs and the WoL is fine. Go ahead and do it.
Thread is over, everyone go home.

I'd be flattered if anyone considered me that much of an authority.

But it's fine, it's going to continue to be fine, and even the people saying "Well I won't RP with them" are still saying it's fine, just not fine for them. So why not?

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-17-2016, 02:16 AM**

(03-17-2016, 01:49 AM)Verad Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 01:39 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 12:49 AM)Verad Wrote: Interacting with named NPCs and the WoL is fine. Go ahead and do it.
Thread is over, everyone go home.

I'd be flattered if anyone considered me that much of an authority.

But it's fine, it's going to continue to be fine, and even the people saying "Well I won't RP with them" are still saying it's fine, just not fine for them. So why not?

I think you misunderstand these threads sometimes Verad. Often the problem isn't "Can I or Can't I?" because the answer is obviously, 'yes, you can'

The issue is "Will other RPers shun me, or will my personal narrative be rejected more often by others" And the answer to that is... well look at any thread on topics like these.

One could argue whether or not it's right to be snooty about RPers who do lorebending or dramatic things with their characters, but it happens. I think many people would rather have a safer character that gets lots of RP, than a more fanciful character that doesn't get any.

These threads are less about coming to a consensus and more about testing the waters, so people can get an idea of how their concept might be accepted ahead of time.

That's how I see it anyway.

Verad · **03-17-2016, 02:26 AM**

(03-17-2016, 02:16 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote: I think you misunderstand these threads sometimes Verad. Often the problem isn't "Can I or Can't I?" because the answer is obviously, 'yes, you can'

The issue is "Will other RPers shun me, or will my personal narrative be rejected more often by others" And the answer to that is... well look at any thread on topics like these.

One could argue whether or not it's right to be snooty about RPers who do lorebending or dramatic things with their characters, but it happens. I think many people would rather have a safer character that gets lots of RP, than a more fanciful character that doesn't get any.

These threads are less about coming to a consensus and more about testing the waters, so people can get an idea of how their concept might be accepted ahead of time.

That's how I see it anyway.

I understand that perfectly well, and it saddens me every time, because this is a terrible place for water-testing, precisely because of the results of threads like these.

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-17-2016, 02:29 AM**

(03-17-2016, 02:26 AM)Verad Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 02:16 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote: I think you misunderstand these threads sometimes Verad. Often the problem isn't "Can I or Can't I?" because the answer is obviously, 'yes, you can'

The issue is "Will other RPers shun me, or will my personal narrative be rejected more often by others" And the answer to that is... well look at any thread on topics like these.

One could argue whether or not it's right to be snooty about RPers who do lorebending or dramatic things with their characters, but it happens. I think many people would rather have a safer character that gets lots of RP, than a more fanciful character that doesn't get any.

These threads are less about coming to a consensus and more about testing the waters, so people can get an idea of how their concept might be accepted ahead of time.

That's how I see it anyway.

I understand that perfectly well, and it saddens me every time, because this is a terrible place for water-testing, precisely because of the results of threads like these.

Where is a better place then? Reddit? The Official Forums? Tumblr?

You could argue that people can just try things and see what happens, but it can be a rather heartbreaking experience to put a lot of time into a concept, only to see it shunned. Worse, it could even follow you and lead to a reputation.

I agree that people should RP what they like, but I also get why people make threads like these. I also don't have a problem with the fact they're often made every year or so on the same topics, (other notable ones include, White Mages, Custom Jobs, and Primals) because opinions change, so it's a topic worth rehashing now and then.

Verad · **03-17-2016, 02:52 AM**

(03-17-2016, 02:29 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 02:26 AM)Verad Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 02:16 AM)McBeefÂ© Wrote: I think you misunderstand these threads sometimes Verad. Often the problem isn't "Can I or Can't I?" because the answer is obviously, 'yes, you can'

The issue is "Will other RPers shun me, or will my personal narrative be rejected more often by others" And the answer to that is... well look at any thread on topics like these.

One could argue whether or not it's right to be snooty about RPers who do lorebending or dramatic things with their characters, but it happens. I think many people would rather have a safer character that gets lots of RP, than a more fanciful character that doesn't get any.

These threads are less about coming to a consensus and more about testing the waters, so people can get an idea of how their concept might be accepted ahead of time.

That's how I see it anyway.

I understand that perfectly well, and it saddens me every time, because this is a terrible place for water-testing, precisely because of the results of threads like these.
Where is a better place then? Reddit? The Official Forums? Tumblr?

You could argue that people can just try things and see what happens, but it can be a rather heartbreaking experience to put a lot of time into a concept, only to see it shunned. Worse, it could even follow you like a reputation.

I agree that people should RP what they like, but I also get why people make threads like these. I also don't have a problem with the fact they're often made every year or so on the same topics, (other notable ones include, White Mages, Custom Jobs, and Primals) because opinions change, so it's a topic worth rehashing now and then.

I have no opinion on how these threads recur, but I can't recall a shift in opinion on any of the topics you've described. Depending on who's posting, they're either contentious at best or contemptuous of the concepts at worst.. The general attitude here to any concept with even a whiff of too much power is to downplay, depower, and discourage, regardless of whether or not the player is ever going to seriously engage with the concept of the person doing the asking in the first place.Â

You're right, I do think people can just try things, and I understand that rejection can hurt upon that happening. I'd rather see that, hurt and all, than have interesting concepts strangled in their cribs by these kinds of threads. If there were more "Here's ways this concept could be made interesting, even though it's not really my thing" in these threads - and there is some of that in this one, thank goodness - then I wouldn't have these problems, and I wouldn't make these posts.

As for a better place, you've got me there; this is the democracy palatable only because the alternatives are worse.

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-17-2016, 03:25 AM**

I mean, we're of the same opinion on this matter Verad. However not everyone is the person who has been here for years.

New people come, with questions that are new to them (if not us), and they get answers that are at least somewhat representative of the community.Â

I personally have played with people who have RP'd as primals, lords of the void, and even more outlandish concepts. I had fun RPing with all of them. My own characters do things like return from the dead, or have crushes on named NPCs, and act as if they have legal authority over other players. I am /all/ for people doing what they think is interesting, and enjoy. However people should also know that a lot of people aren't.Â

As I said, the point of threads like these isn't to shift opinion, it is to catalog it. So that someone can see what the range of opinions are, and base their decision upon it. Coming to a consensus isn't the point.Â

Whenever someone goes "Ugh not /this/ thread again" remember that to many on this site, this is the first time they're coming into contact with the discussion. They're not all as jaded about the question. It's a forum for discussion, not a platonic argument to find the truth.

Warren Castille · **03-17-2016, 08:55 AM**

I also think it's kind of testing the waters. You don't roll into an insanely rich neighborhood and open up a greasy-spoon diner, and you also don't go into government housing sections and debut a five-start French restaurant. There's a community here, sure, and with that comes a sense of scale on what the people in the community like and dislike. It's not policing because it isn't done with intent, but it does provide a lay of the land.

There are also people on Balmung RPing as named, lore-based characters, half-primals, characters from other games, and as the Warrior of Light themselves. You'll find people willing to indulge any concept, really, but this website isn't indicative of the entire server, just of the people on the website. There's some of us who play to the 11th degree of power and some happy to not do so. There's a diverse range of responses in here varying from "Sure, do it" to "No, and no one ever should" and that's to be expected when someone asks for a public opinion on, well, anything.

Kellach Woods · **03-17-2016, 10:12 AM**

Plenty reasons why it's a terrible place for water testing. You don't even have a good proportion of the RPers on the server here, and everyone hates each other's concept enough to shit on it.

You wouldn't ask tumblr because you'd find overwhelming positivity and less actual in-game representation (since people still interact with the community even if they don't play the game anymore, etc.)Â

You wouldn't ask the official forums because official forums are lolRP.

* * *

As you've seen with my shitposts in this thread, my opinion is that it's all good on this bus.

Val · **03-17-2016, 10:58 AM**

(03-17-2016, 10:12 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Plenty reasons why it's a terrible place for water testing. You don't even have a good proportion of the RPers on the server here, and everyone hates each other's concept enough to shit on it.

You wouldn't ask tumblr because you'd find overwhelming positivity and less actual in-game representation (since people still interact with the community even if they don't play the game anymore, etc.)Â

You wouldn't ask the official forums because official forums are lolRP.

* * *

As you've seen with my shitposts in this thread, my opinion is that it's all good on this bus.

You'd be really, really surprised how awful some of the tumblr RP community is. I'd say they're only positive about things they find entertaining/interesting themselves. The moment you show an opposed opinion, they jump all over you.

As for the rest of the post, yeah. That's probably right tbh. In the end, people will do what they want and it doesn't really matter. As I said earlier, I don't personallyÂ approve of some of the things, but I'm not going to message someone and tell them they're wrong. The only time I've ever tried to do that, a person was RPing a Miqo'te and kept swapping the word for "tribe" and "clan." I felt the need to educate them that they aren't the same in XIV. They told me I was bullying and harassing them, to which I was honestly stunned at first, but after some thought realized that seemed par for the course. Though, that's a bit wrong of me. There are those wonderful people that are certainly open to constructive criticism, or new ideas, and they are a godsend to the community as a whole.

Aaron · **03-17-2016, 11:11 AM**

I'm astonished by how sensitive some people are over this lol you try to help them and they say that you're bullying them?

Lmfao I can't even....

Val · **03-17-2016, 11:14 AM**

(03-17-2016, 11:11 AM)Aaron Wrote: I'm astonished by how sensitive some people are over this lol you try to help them and they say that you're bullying them?

Lmfao I can't even....

Some people just aren't receptive. Or maybe they're so used to being picked on that they think anyone offering advice is trying to do the same? A lot of intent/feeling/emotion is lost in text, after all. That's really the only excuse I had, other than the idea that someone is just a genuine ass.

Warren Castille · **03-17-2016, 11:27 AM**

Unsolicited opinions, no matter how correct, polite or well-meaning, have a risk of sounding preachy or hostile. People don't like to be wrong, so having a stranger burst through the wall like Kool-Aid Man to give advice/clarifications/suggestions/whatever can make someone feel like they're wrong/not creative/etcetera.

Val · **03-17-2016, 11:40 AM**

(03-17-2016, 11:27 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Unsolicited opinions, no matter how correct, polite or well-meaning, have a risk of sounding preachy or hostile. People don't like to be wrong, so having a stranger burst through the wall like Kool-Aid Man to give advice/clarifications/suggestions/whatever can make someone feel like they're wrong/not creative/etcetera.

It was more along the lines of me saying something like "Hey, in Miqo'te culture, tribes and clans are different. Seekers have tribes/are tribal, while Keepers form clans."

The immediate response was "Clans and tribes are the same. Clan is just another word for tribe." I tried to inform them that, yes, the language for them is interchangeable but it's different in XIV and they just got very, very snippy lol then posted a passive-aggressive tumblr rant about how awful people are trying to correct their RP, which everyone immediately jumped up and started patting them on the back :p

There's a reason I rarely go to tumblr. The culture there is ass.

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IC interactions with the REAL WoL?

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