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(03-18-2015, 08:41 PM)Bryn Wrote: Vaguely, yes. The term does describe a real phenomenon; we've all seen Mary Sues (possibly RP'd one in our younger years. Cough.), and as already pointed out, there is a male equivalent: Marty or Gary Stu. They are awful.
But as the Tumblr post states, that's Batman. And no-one bats an eyelid pun intended. In fact, he's a hugely beloved cultural icon. So I do think that accusations of Sue-ism are levelled at female characters more often, because female creations and interests are more frequently derided, attacked and seen as lesser.
For example, look at the vitriol levelled at the recent woman-centric media of Twilight and 50 Shades. It's not enough for these things to just simply be shit (they are), but hating on them becomes a kind of public performance. It's a bit like that.
I'm gonna poke a bit at your comparison here and the suggestion that Twilight and 50 Shades are so hated in some part because of being female-centric. Firstly, anything that garners popularity on that large of a scale is going to get a lot of scrutiny and attention. If the item in question doesn't hold up, it usually gets forgotten or derided.Â
Twilight and 50 Shades are remarkable because they sold ridiculous amounts of copies despite being awful. Twilight especially so; it was everywhere in its heyday. T-shirts, posters, sneakers, 'Team Edward' nonsense and ect. I'm sure Facebook was drowned in it. But I find it interesting that you point to it when the character of Edward got much more rabid hate than Bella herself. Stalker, creepy, shitty vampire, so on and so forth. Jacob didn't fare much better, even managing to rack up 'pedophile' with the regrettable love triangle being wrapped up with his fate literally being bound to Bella's infant daughter with a single look. Meanwhile, Bella herself was... boring. She did nothing but swoon, obsess, and generally be a useless putz for nearly the entirety of the series. In fact, if there ever was an example of a true 'Mary Sue' in popular culture, it would be her. People have pointed out numerous signs that Bella is an actual self-insert for Stephanie Meyer, including the infamous 'dream I had' origin of Twilight. Ultimately, she is a foil for the two male characters and meant to be ignored in favor of them so the readers can replace her with themselves instead. 50 Shades' focus is much the same; it's all about Christian Grey and his downright worrisome fixation on Anastasia Steel. In fact, both series have subsequently earned a lot of ire for their depictions of relationships that border from unhealthy (Twilight) to genuinely abusive (50 Shades). Additionally, the books' apparent insistence that nothing is amiss and this should be aspired and desired have been roundly condemned. There is nothing ultimately redeeming about these books beyond the salacious 'guilty pleasure' of reading them. They're practically femsploitation. Add all of this to the absurd popularity that defied any logic and a lot of hate will brew from all sides.Â
Fact of the matter is, a character is only as good as their writing and execution. Batman has had the benefit of myriad writers, stories, themes and character arcs, many of which have been critically hailed. He has struggled, failed, changed, evolved, triumphed and more.
A 'Mary Sue', regardless of gender, lacks all of this.