(07-09-2013, 01:09 AM)Black Wrote: I will also state something here:
You and I and even the person who started this whole thing are quite passionate people in our likes for certain characters. Even if this turned out to be a reasonable debate (and it hasn't had that effect already IMO), I could see the previous thread devolving into a "Superman debate thread" very easily as we pick apart things point by point.
While I am generally alright with off-topicness and I do it myself, as I said, the previous thread is about "celebrating your favorites" and not criticizing others because of their choice of favorites. And really, this may not stop at one character, but turn into a debate about others as well. IMO, the very first post wasn't as much as an open debate, but struck me as an "O-boy-O-boy! I can't wait to win converts to my side even though I should respect people have different perspectives!" Perhaps that is a false view on my end, but that poster seems to be spoiling for fight or debate that can easily go on for pages upon pages as neither side is going to be convinced. I am sure he will not be convinced, given his wording and I will not be convinced.
So between all the postings of favorites, we are going to have this on-going debate which, I feel, would drive away a few posters who would want to post up a hero and why they like it (without someone tearing down their position as to WHY they like their particular hero).
Not everyone likes Strawberries, folks. Some prefer Raspberries and that's how it is. Peoples tastes and perspectives will be different. I hope I am not the only one that appreciates that fact and sees someone who may not but wishes to push a debate without seeing the possibility of a thread devolving into pure debate as these types of posts take it over.
I've never been good at the whole breaking quotes up thing that Shuck does, so I'm going to do this in a very sloppy and frankly, shitty manner. But you'll get the point.
"You and I and even the person who started this whole thing are quite passionate people in our likes for certain characters. Even if this turned out to be a reasonable debate (and it hasn't had that effect already IMO), I could see the previous thread devolving into a "Superman debate thread" very easily as we pick apart things point by point."
First off, I'd like to say that it was a reasonable debate. I took no offense to anything said, and like Shuck pointed out earlier, we continued the conversation in skype for hours afterward. Also, if it became a "Superman debate thread" and we started picking apart things point by point, I'd be ecstatic! I love super hero debates! I never expect anyone to agree with me on these types of conversations, and I love hearing the points of view that other, equally read comic book fans have. The beauty of the comic book art form is that it's so vastly open to interpretation, which is obviously outstanding fuel for discussion.
"While I am generally alright with off-topicness and I do it myself, as I said, the previous thread is about "celebrating your favorites" and not criticizing others because of their choice of favorites. And really, this may not stop at one character, but turn into a debate about others as well. IMO, the very first post wasn't as much as an open debate, but struck me as an "O-boy-O-boy! I can't wait to win converts to my side even though I should respect people have different perspectives!" Perhaps that is a false view on my end, but that poster seems to be spoiling for fight or debate that can easily go on for pages upon pages as neither side is going to be convinced. I am sure he will not be convinced, given his wording and I will not be convinced."
"This may not stop at one character, but turn into a debate about others as well"? That's the most exciting news I've heard all day! How is an endless debate about the likes and dislikes of comic book heroes possibly seen as a bad thing for any comic book fan? I went through a debate similar to this for four hours on Skype yesterday (as mentioned earlier) and I loved it. I was almost late for work because of it. Why is it such a terrible thing to want to add like-minded fans into our conversation? I really did not get the feeling of "O-boy-O-boy! I can't wait to win converts to my side even though I should respect people have different perspectives!" I got the feeling of "O-boy-O-boy! I can't wait to discuss my opinions with people who are actually educated on this subject!"
"So between all the postings of favorites, we are going to have this on-going debate which, I feel, would drive away a few posters who would want to post up a hero and why they like it (without someone tearing down their position as to WHY they like their particular hero)."
Hold on... "and why they like it (without someone tearing down their position as to WHY they like their particular hero)." ....What?
You think everyone should be free to put up why they like their hero but no one should be allowed to ask why they like their hero? What's the point then? And how does this make any kind of sense?
"Not everyone likes Strawberries, folks. Some prefer Raspberries and that's how it is. Peoples tastes and perspectives will be different. I hope I am not the only one that appreciates that fact and sees someone who may not but wishes to push a debate without seeing the possibility of a thread devolving into pure debate as these types of posts take it over."
Okay. Clearly Shuck and I both appreciate the fact that people's tastes will be different. Probably even more so than the rest of the thread, because we asked each other "Why do you see it that way?" We're interested to know what the thought process behind each other's decisions was. If I like strawberries, and you like raspberries, and you ask me why I like strawberries, rest assured I won't take it as a personal attack or someone itching for a fight. I'll say "I like strawberries because of their texture and taste. Why do you like raspberries?" because maybe, through that discussion, I'll decide to try raspberries or you will decide to try strawberries. At very least you'll understand why I like strawberries and I'll understand why you like raspberries. How is this a bad thing?
EDIT: I'd like to add, I'm not trying to fight anyone. Every time someone sees a broken up post that addresses things point-for-point they freak out and get defensive. You stated your opinion, here's my counter. And that's all it is. I'm sure you're a perfectly nice gentleman. I just disagree with you.
(07-09-2013, 03:16 AM)Bea Wrote: As the creator of the thread, it wasn't intended to be a "feel all happy" thread, where no actual discussion takes place (seeing that disagreements are a natural part of discussion.). But then again, with any thread that's made, I actually want people to engage each other, ask questions, disagree and say why, not just stand around telling everyone how awesome their ideas and opinions are. That's boring and no one grows from that shit.
Plus, people derailing from threads happen all the time without the mods having the step in. The only time it becomes a problems is when people start shouting about how their feelings are hurt, especially when no one involved is being even kind of hostile. It's getting tiring and honestly, I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for this place.
Can't even have a light hearted disagreement about fuckin' Superman... Seriously.
I was looking for an excerpt of this post to quote so I could state how much I agree with it.Â
But I agree with every single word here.Â
I wrote a huge rant today about how illogical and stupid it is that there's no disagreement allowed on this forum. How does anyone in this community actually expect to learn and grow if no one is allowed to disagree? Why the hell do you think there are debate classes in high schools or even open student discussions in history classes? It's one of the greatest methods of learning. If you're so hopelessly unsure of your favorite super hero that your only option is to freak out about personal attacks when someone asks "why do you like this character?" you probably didn't have an attachment to that character anyway.Â
If anyone's wondering where that rant is, I deleted it because I knew if I kept it up someone would cry harassment and the thread would be deleted and no one would read it anyway.Â
I should be used to it by now, but I still can't believe it when a thread gets closed or moved because someone decides to say the two forbidden words: "I disagree."