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(07-09-2013, 05:09 AM)Black Wrote: Excuse me. That was nowhere near my original post. Again, you are not reading, so why debate you? My original post was, "Okay, you want to have a debate? Please let's just move this topic to a new one." Maybe this concept is hard to grasp, because mouse-clicking is such a hard task. And again, I said in this very quote, I was ready to debate you, but you just decided to get all angry and self-righteous.
Fine.
Sure it is. Let's walk through history. Again. Because the things you say are preserved in a text-based format.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: :sigh:
While some messages have gone a bit off-topic, this is a thread about "elevating" favorites, not pointing out flaws or denigrating one's you may not like.
Sometimes it is a personal choice what one likes or does not like. I may pick apart your post, but this needs to be in another thread on its own (IMO). It should not be here, where people named their favorites and someone asked *why* do some people favor Superman.
So. Here we have the meat of your thrust. Right in bold. Your words. You'll notice that A) Nope, that's not what the thread had ever stated, and B) No one's denigrated anything, as denigration is defined as "unfair criticism" first and foremost, or "disparaging", which would be to regard something as being of little worth. Neither of those things happened.
I don't know why you insist on pretending you have a better grasp of language than you do.
Also, you're not so much "debating" anything as you are making shit up, and throwing out words that you don't understand the meaning of.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: But again, you just come into a thread whose only purpose is to promote people posting favorites and turn it into a debate on a particular hero people choose? The whole point is that if you want to debate ONE character, please respect those that may be talking about Iron Man and don't point out faults. It's easy to criticize something you do not agree with, so far in the other thread, it is you who have gone off the rails and now, you just want to further it by turning it into a Superman debate thread? That makes no sense to me. Heck, not sure why Uther likes it either.
In whatever fantasy land you imagine yourself to be the calm, reasonable individual in this exchange, I'm sure that opening line is true. I mean, it's not in reality. Also, I'll point out faults in whatever I like. In any discussion. At any time. If you can't handle that, nobody here can help you, but that's been said.
I'll go ahead and link you to my posts in that thread (you won't read those either, because that's the fashionable thing to do, I guess):
Here's the one that you took issue with. In this one, we see, and I can't believe I'm explaining this again, that my (entirely fair, and grounded in what happened in the comics)criticism of Superman ties into some thoughts on another character all together. We can already see that the sole focus is not on Superman, but on the discussion of comic book heroes and literature in general.
But that's a bit you would like to gloss over, because I guess you live in a world where pesky things like "facts" and "reality" get in the way of your grandstanding nonsense, and your ability to pretend to be smug.
Moving on, we have my initial post in that thread. Which, as you can see, offers more discussion points on other characters. Nowhere does anyone suggest that the other thread be based entirely around the discussion of one character, so...y'know, again you're making shit up.
Even the posts after that move the discussion in new directions.
Is english just not your first language? If so, that's ok, and I can cut you some slack on it, but holy hell, guy. You can't just not look at the words.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: I don't impose on others. Yeah, these are just "words" that one can gloss over, but not everyone who posts there may care to read about a Superman debate. This is like if you and I stand up in a cafeteria and start loudly debating across the room about politics. Sure, you and I are free to say what we want, but what about the audience? Some may care, others will not. So, you tell them to leave the cafeteria, after they paid for the food? "Lump it or leave it"? No consideration for others?
The difference here being that this isn't a cafeteria, we aren't shouting across a room, and the discussion that was being had was not even a full degree separated from the short exchange we had on Superman. This analogy is flawed from the ground up, and the argument is still invalid.
Also, nobody cares about how little you say you impose on others. You've imposed on the previous thread. I mean, far be it for me to call you a liar, but that is some wild un-truth.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: Again, it's just one mouse click away; this is not asking you to climb Mt. Everest.
And this is just wonderful. I'll tell you why in a minute, but I want this one hanging out there.
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(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: First, I know you do not understand, "Jack" and continue to belittle me. Sad, but fair enough.
Not what was said, let's revisit.
Shuck Wrote:I would like to walk you down what was said, now. Because there's a disconnect here. Let me bridge that for you, as you don't understand jack, and are guilty of the exact thing that you're (baselessly) accusing me of. Which is it's own special kind of hilarious.
That's what was said. In response to this:
(07-09-2013, 12:42 AM)Black Wrote: And I've been in more flame wars since flame wars was a term. I am not moved by your stance or your debate style to throw my and others views into question. From what I probably understand about you, you really have not read and considered the points in our posts but have decided to pursue your own agenda. If you are a true debater, you do not attack the speaker, you attack the issues.
That's what you said. I'm not belittling you, I'm correcting you. There's a difference. You (for some reason) thought that you could...I don't know, "profile" a stranger on the internet based on like two half-read blurbs. You also decided that everyone needed to know that you've...been...on the internet. I guess. Nobody cares, and it's not relevant to any bit of any conversation that you and I have ever had, but hey! Why not, right!?
Seriously, though: You attempted to impress, it didn't happen, that's not being belittled, and you're not nearly keen enough to "understand" a person through the internet. Nobody here is. Nobody. Unless you're secretly telepathic. Are you? What number am I thinking of?
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: Here is what you do not seem to realize.
On that other thread, you quoted Uther's one sentence. Later on, in that other thread you complained about "you having a discussion with a guildie" and that a third party comes in and messes that up.
What you seem to fail to realize is that quote and your response was directed at me, word for word.
Nope. It wasn't. Nowhere in anything that was posted on the topic of Superman was directed at you.
Here's the post. Again. Point out to me where I say anything in this post to you. I mean, you can't, because it doesn't exist, but I want to see how far you're willing to pretend.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: Uther already gave his reasons above. He replied that he agreed to my post in that one sentence. You DID NOT reply to his post, you replied to mine (you simply snipped the rest and quoted his one sentence reply). So your inability to see that makes me wonder why you continue to feign innocence. I am big enough to realize, in your zeal, you probably were mistaken, but you do not seem to be capable of that in this instance. And look, I didn't mind to reply later on: I was thinking of making a separate thread for it, but you've raised such a big stink over this, I don't feel like it is worth the hassle.
You're gonna give your ego a rash if you keep stroking it like that.
Anyway, I was responding to Uther. The guy I quoted. He agreed with your points, so I provided some counter-points. To him. If I wanted to respond to you, I would have. Like I'm doing now.
This isn't an inability to see what happened, this is a refusal to follow you down the twisting, ill-maintained road to crazytown. I have no idea why you thought that I was responding to you by-proxy. Who would do that? Nobody would do that. Nobody would believe anybody would do that, unless they had some kind of self-importance issues, and that's not something I care to broach.
Also, there's no zeal here. I don't think you know what "zeal" means. Let's clear the air on that one too, and add it to your list of "things I don't understand, but will use anyway": Eagerness or ardent interest in pursuing something.
In this pursuit, right here? There is no fire. There's no eagerness. Trust me. I would know. I'm me.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: And again, you see your side, I see you jumping in with:
shuck Wrote:FINALLY! I have someone to argue about Superman with!
And then lots of points that contradict each other.
Someone to "Argue" with. Not "Debate" with. Not a "Oh, as much as I see your opinion, I disagree because..."
What points that contradict? Point those out, otherwise, you're making things up. Again.
Anyway, this is another point where you've bungled your communications. The word "argue" is used to denote a contention or disagreement with words. Any negative connotations you might attach are...well, they're fiction. Like the majority of your points. Utter, total, fiction.
So...yeah, that is in fact what I said. And I meant it! I like arguing. It's a great way to exchange ideas.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: It is you who have nothing to stand on and now you talk so "high" when your entrance was less than desirable. I saw no civil discussion at that point and frankly. while you may have "cleaned up" with your continuation with Uther, you are still missing the point. And that point is not Superman debate, it is your responses immediately afterward, which seem to be screaming and cussing.
So now you are just gonna spam your discussion and to hell with your fellow posters? That's fine. Not my style to impose my will on others, but it seems to be yours, even if you say you hate that trait in Superman.
Cleaned up? What the fuck are you talking about? The language, cadence, and general posting style hasn't changed in the slightest. The conversation moved on. Hell, the time stamps on the posts themselves will even reveal that nothing was edited. Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?
Moving on, you can't claim victory if you haven't provided a single counter-point. And you haven't. Like, at all. It's all been either utter bullshit, or a willful ignorance of events as they happen.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: I already discussed this in my above reply and even in this message. It is not the "Why can't I?" but, "Why can't you create another thread?" As Bea below said, she did not start that thread to be a discussion and it is simply better to create another thread.
Ok, remember when I said that I wanted that one little bit hanging out there, because it was funny? This is why. This isn't even close to what she said, and you're full of shit.
Check this out:
(07-09-2013, 03:16 AM)Bea Wrote: As the creator of the thread, it wasn't intended to be a "feel all happy" thread, where no actual discussion takes place (seeing that disagreements are a natural part of discussion.). But then again, with any thread that's made, I actually want people to engage each other, ask questions, disagree and say why, not just stand around telling everyone how awesome their ideas and opinions are. That's boring and no one grows from that shit.
Plus, people derailing from threads happen all the time without the mods having the step in. The only time it becomes a problems is when people start shouting about how their feelings are hurt, especially when no one involved is being even kind of hostile. It's getting tiring and honestly, I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for this place.
Can't even have a light hearted disagreement about fuckin' Superman... Seriously.
I even bolded that for you. You're so incredibly wrong, and off-base that it's...well, it's not even funny anymore. It's just strange. Right there, she says the opposite of what you think she said. Right there! Her words!
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: Should I be talking about nu-52 dealings or how I don't agree with Quesada's decisions in that thread? Again, I know human nature: such things happen and I have no qualms against it, but even between you and Uther in the other thread, it's become something off-topic and really, for you guys, people may gloss over it anyway because they don't care for Superman (as Bea states). I just don't wish to impose that on others. I choose to be unselfish and think of others. Maybe that is beyond you and you have not realized that. Prove me wrong? So far, you haven't.
Why not? Talk about whatever. You're not making any grand statements by doing...whatever this is. If you're so very unselfish, I would argue that you would've just let those events play out any way they like, as doing anything else would invest a piece of your self into the happenings, and would therefore make any actions you take selfish, but that's because I understand the logical progressions of events.
And, actually, I've proven you wrong like twenty times over, you just live in a fantasy world. As evidenced in the last quote. The one where you imagined that someone said something entirely opposite to what they actually said.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: I haven't pointed out any counter-points because you started this "baseless accusation" in both threads. All I did was sigh and say you will possibly disagree, but I can see this going on for pages. It is you who chose not to understand and whine about a new thread starting up when...hey...just a mouse-click away. It is you who chooses to continue this. I did not call you anything in that post: You just assumed and carried on with me as the villain, even though I acknowledge people would want to debate this but it should be moved because that wou7ld bury the original topic.
You haven't thrown up any counter points or supporting examples because you don't have any, and are entirely too proud to just bow out.
I continue this pursuit because...well, honestly? It's a blast for me. I love exchanges in communication. Love 'em. I love conflict! You're just, unfortunately, bad at it. That's cool. Everyone's got their thing. Don't pretend you have some kind of secret evidence, though. Put your cards on the table, man.
Also, there was no whining. I understand your points entirely, they're just made-up.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: I mean, why bother if you keep attacking? Only now do I see an attempt to be "calm and reasonable" and not "Let's argue!". You are back-pedaling as you cover yourself.
Never uttered those words. Like, in my life. There's no back-pedaling here. And, like before, I dare you to point it out. I do.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: And heck, all the facts are in your posts. Again, you chose to escalate that. When I typed that :sigh: post, I was just tired and resigned but didn't want to cloud up the thread.
If you didn't want to cloud up the thread, why did you bother posting? That's just counter-productive.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: I haven't seen much generosity and clamness here: I do know you posted about Iron Man and Spider-man...that's about it.
Except for the post in question, where I spoke on Rorschach, Batman, and Superman. Also, the post about John Stewart. And the post about Namor. Really, the vast majority of my posts in that thread.
If you're gonna make shit up, at least make sure that the medium you're using isn't one that records conversations with a handy timestamp, because you end up looking like a fool when you try to go against those.
(07-08-2013, 04:17 AM)Black Wrote: And afterward, you "jumped" on me and my Superman post and answered my post, in my head, all zealous: I didn't even link that you did the Iron Man/Spider-man post.
Go ahead back through the thread; I'll wait. Again, that was not Uther's post, it was mine. And while I was open to debate on it, you've shown in the after posts complaining that you aren't as calm as you think you are.
Ok, again, you're not telepathic, and I won't believe you're able to accurately pin down my emotional state unless you can correctly guess what number I'm thinking of, and prove your superhuman ability to know a person who you've only had sparing interactions with via the internet.
Also, this uh...this says a lot. "In your head". Your head that imagines statements. Your head that makes up support where there isn't any. Your head that assumes you're being targeted in a post clearly directed at someone else (regardless of whether or not they agreed with you to begin with), and bore no actual indication that you, the user with the handle Black, should weep because Superman blows goats (he does).
Your head's straight-up wrong, man.