(01-13-2014, 12:07 PM)Black Hat Wrote: I'm not going to get into the rhetoric about DPS classes sucking, just going to go from experience and what I call the "Clockwork Pain" rotation. Lancer/Dragoon was my first class to 50 on Lukas and even though I chose to fiddle with other things after nearly complete darklight gear and no relic weapon (Darklight drop instead), I have a rotation I'm happy with and have yet to hear much complaint about. Course, I don't tend to go out of my way to mess with the extremes because I feel that PuGs suck, but when I roulette and do occasionally try to topple Titan HM with a PuG, I'm never saddened by my damage output.
Also, Lukas has no PUG/MNK abilities. Just 30 levels of Marauder. Here goes.
Single Target - Standard
Starting on left or right side, Heavy Thrust - (First Combo) True Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Full Thrust - Fracture - Phlebotomize - Heavy Thrust - >Move to back< - Impulse Drive, Disembowel, Chaos Thrust.
Single Target - Boss
Starting on left or right side, Blood for Blood, Heavy Thrust - (First Combo) True Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Full Thrust >Move around to the other side or through at your discretion< - Fracture - Phlebotomize - Heavy Thrust - >Move to back< - Impulse Drive, Disembowel, Chaos Thrust. - >Return to starting side<Â
Blood for Blood ends either at Disembowel or Chaos Thrust depending on how quick you are on keystrokes, however the heavy thrust buff is still running. Continue combo like normal, adjust for Blood for Blood when its CD is finished.Â
Mobs of 4 or higher: Target side: Blood for Blood, Heavy Thrust - Ring of Thorns - Dragonfire Drop (If available), Re-target middle of mob, Doomspike x3 - Repeat as needed.Â
Mobs of 3 or less: Standard Single Target Rotation.Â
As for PVP and running around: Do the jump abilities not work? I'll be poking into PVP soon, but reading the comments made me ask the question.
Really, the issue with melee and dodging is based on equipment and coordination. If your comp is laggy and slow, you're going to suck at melee and be a liability to harder duties and raids. I've got hand-eye coordination though and even I get caught on the edge of an AoE now and then. (And yes, I've been knocked off by the Titan-fist, hung my head in shame, and moved on)
Last two things:
1> Hellooooo, if you're running at someone with a long stick and a knife attached to it while that person is throwing live grenades at your feet, you either move or die. I think the game is realistic in its interpretation of combat (At least as realistic as a fantasy MMO can be, mind you). Of course the goobers in the back firing arrows or throwing their own "grenades" aren't going to get hit or threatened as often, they're BEHIND THE LINE. Is it fair? Nah, but War isn't fair.... *Theatrical squint, lights a cigar with a match struck off his chin-stubble* >.>
2> Elusive Jump doesn't fail for me, maybe it's how quick I am with the "OH SHIT" button it's attached to, I dunno. It IS, however, practically useless because of its cooldown.
-Cheers
Black Hat
A more efficient, I've found, Full DPS rotation on bosses is as follows:
Heavy Thrust, Fracture, Phlebotomize, Impulse Drive, Disembowel, Chaos Thrust, True Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Full Thrust. Then HT, Frac, Phle, then the TT-VT-FT combo twice, then ID-Dis-CT again, then HT, Frac, Phle, etc.
Basically the point is to ALWAYS have Heavy Thrust buff and Disembowel debuff up, to optimize damage return. It's also possible to go straight for the ID-Dis-CT combo BEFORE doing Frac-Phleb, but since Frac-Phleb last the same time as HT buff, I've found it mentally easier to queue them up together.
Also, making sure to actually use Jump, Dragonfire Dive, and, on fights where it doesn't matter if you blow your Stun, both Leg Sweep and the stunning jump whose name I forget right now; because of faster animations and them being off Global Cooldown, you can squeeze them in between other attacks.
Fun things happen when the stars align; Dragoons can pull big fat shiny numbers! In CT yesterday, for instance, when I used my auto-crit fully-buffed Full Thrust immediately followed by a pumped-up Jump (which also crit) they landed for 1246 and 1006 respectively, within a second of each other. It felt cool.
But this isn't a DPS-optimization thread. Dragoons can DO damage. This thread is about the balancing act which leads to desirability in a raid. Basically, DPS + Utility - Inconvenience (for healers, typically) = Desirability. If a Dragoon is doing enough damage, and not getting hit by more AoEs than anyone else, it can counter the comparative loss in utility versus other classes. The argument I ventured forth at the onset was that ON AVERAGE, because melee is actually more difficult to play than ranged (especially non-casting-based ranged, i.e. Bards) they end up needing more healing, thus costing more resources while not contributing sufficiently MORE damage than ranged such as BLM/BRD/SMN, especially since Dragoons in particular DON'T provide utility.
I base the 'requiring more healing' argument on simple observation. Run enough of ANYTHING and you'll see Melee get hit more than Ranged. It's simple logic; there are quite a few more attacks that only hit close to enemies, than ones that only hit far. YES if you're good you take no damage, but same goes for ranged, and if you're doing the same DPS as another skilled player but he's contributing utility (such as songs) then you are in fact inferior.
One argument that I've heard however, in this thread, that I like, is the BURST potential of Dragoons. It IS useful to be able to unload heavy damage in a short time, both in PVE against special adds and in PVP as long as you've got someone to hold your target still for a moment. As my anti-Dragoon friend said when we PVP'd together, Dragoons are good hunter-killers. Again, as long as someone holds our target, we can mess them up =3
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