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LadyRochester · **06-11-2015, 11:28 AM**

(06-11-2015, 11:01 AM)Nero Wrote: While I don't think it's completely impossible, it's certainly impractical for a few reasons.

Firstly, the magical inks used to empower arcanist grimoires use metallic bases such as gold and electrum that conduct the flow of aether which, if we follow standard real world logic, would be highly toxic to embed in the skin. What that means isn't that the spell wouldn't work, just that the spell in question wouldn't be able to be enhanced by the ink that is used. You could use ordinary plant-based ink to tattoo the design onto a body, but it would be fairly weak since it lacks the amplification of the inks.Â

Secondly, the designs in arcanist grimoires are more like cheat sheets than anything else. They're one part reference, two parts program so that the arcanist can easily draw the geometry in their head to focus and shape their aether into a spell, because otherwise the geometries are very complex and ostensibly difficult to memorize. If you were to put one of these designs on your body, you would have to place them somewhere that is easy for you to see in order to reference the spell and form the geometry in your head. Having one of these tattoos on your back, for example, would be completely pointless because you wouldn't be able to see the design and thus won't be able to visualize it in a reasonable amount of time.

With all of that said, like I stated above, it's not impossible. You could put a geometry for a small spell on the back of your hand, for example. So long as you manage to accurately capture the details of the geometries, you could use it to fire off a few weak spells without the need for a grimoire. It'd also be possible to place a geometry on your forearm, so long as you drew it in a way that you could visualize the design accurately enough for the spell to work.

Also, it's suggested that grimoires themselves in addition to the inks used to draw the designs amplify arcane magic, so without metallic inks or the grimoires, a user would have to pour a great deal of their personal aether into the spell in order to make it reasonably powerful. A normal arcanist draws from their store of aether--their MP, basically--and visualizes the design from a reference within the grimoire. The designs within grimoire and the metallic inks used to draw that design shape the aether into the desired spell amplify the effect of the spell as it is cast. An arcanist using tattoos would lack the enhancement of the grimoire, so it'd be pretty draining even for simple spells.

So with all of that in mind, it's not impossible or implausible, but it is a bit impractical. An arcanist spell prepared in this manner with body tattoos would be more of an emergency measure or backup weapon than anything else, like a pocket pistol or derringer.

Silly me! I had completely forgotten about the fact the ink used in Arcanum had metallic bases. Thank you.

I do see your point, it's one of the reasons I wasn't intending to make it a powerful enhancement, simply something a character could use during an emergency. I suppose I can leave the idea in the back-burner, at least until more magic lore comes out. Someone could argue there could be other forms of Arcanum that don't require metallic inks, but that would be more head-canon.Â

If we stretched lore a bit, you could argue that perhaps one can use another form of magic for warding and protection (by drawing aetherial shields of the sort.) Seeing how loose the lore is with magic within this game, I don't see it as an impossibility, but I would understand why people would be reluctant to apply to to their RP.

Gegenji · **06-11-2015, 11:31 AM**

(06-11-2015, 11:23 AM)Yangh Wrote: I mean, I know the Paladin arts are likely less strain on the body but I can't imagine the way Monks throw their aether and chakra around to be subtle at all.

Oddly enough, I like to think of Monk chakras working a bit like Conjury. After all, you head to places full of latent aether - battlegrounds - in order to open your chakra in the MNK quest line. So, in a sense, you're attuning yourself to the aether of the world around you in order to bolster your attacks. Rather than talking to the elements, you're learning to draw on the energy yourself somewhat.

... Though, saying that, it starts to make me think of Black Magic too. Though, instead of straight draining aether to pull down the stars, you're drawing on it to make you punch harder. Hrm.

LadyRochester · **06-11-2015, 11:33 AM**

(06-11-2015, 11:11 AM)Yangh Wrote: I was under the impression that THM's cycle aether between umbral and astral, using their body as a conduit. My memory on the how and why are slightly fuzzy but I thought that like CNJ, the majority of aether is borrowed from an external source when casting.

I also thought that Mana is aether is life-force?

I need to consult the Sounsyy as I could be entirely wrong here. @w@

Well, based on head-canon and logical thought, I assume the following:

MP --> Mana/Aether
HP --> Life force, a mixture of health and aether, but to a more primal degree
Then there's your soul, which I guess is weaved in between the two.

I assume this because of the "drain" ability used by arcanists, where they are able to convert a target's HP into MP, which means that they are both tied together in a sense. Same thing applies to Â the BLM's "convert"

Yangh · **06-11-2015, 11:34 AM**

(06-11-2015, 11:31 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(06-11-2015, 11:23 AM)Yangh Wrote: I mean, I know the Paladin arts are likely less strain on the body but I can't imagine the way Monks throw their aether and chakra around to be subtle at all.

Oddly enough, I like to think of Monk chakras working a bit like Conjury. After all, you head to places full of latent aether - battlegrounds - in order to open your chakra in the MNK quest line. So, in a sense, you're attuning yourself to the aether of the world around you in order to bolster your attacks. Rather than talking to the elements, you're learning to draw on the energy yourself somewhat.

... Though, saying that, it starts to make me think of Black Magic too. Though, instead of straight draining aether to pull down the stars, you're drawing on it to make you punch harder. Hrm.

Its an interesting thought actually. Needing that swell of concentrated aether to unlock a chakra within the body. It makes you wonder why it has to be that way... and why those chakra stay open after you've left that place.

I've always considered the aether needed as a key which now makes me wonder... if like you said, they're pulling in aether to power their chakra... or is it the other way around? Chakra to shape and power aether?!

Yangh · **06-11-2015, 11:37 AM**

(06-11-2015, 11:33 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:
(06-11-2015, 11:11 AM)Yangh Wrote: I was under the impression that THM's cycle aether between umbral and astral, using their body as a conduit. My memory on the how and why are slightly fuzzy but I thought that like CNJ, the majority of aether is borrowed from an external source when casting.

I also thought that Mana is aether is life-force?

I need to consult the Sounsyy as I could be entirely wrong here. @w@

Well, based on head-canon and logical thought, I assume the following:

MP --> Mana/Aether
HP --> Life force, a mixture of health and aether, but to a more primal degree
Then there's your soul, which I guess is weaved in between the two.

I assume this because of the "drain" ability used by arcanists, where they are able to convert a target's HP into MP, which means that they are both tied together in a sense. Same thing applies to Â the BLM's "convert"

Welp, double post! ;w;

I've always and always will assume the MP bar to be a game mechanic and that Aether = life force = soul.

Again, that's my interpretation... my head is now spinning about Monks being Monks... chakra to aether... aether to chakra?! By your powers combined I am Captain Hydaelyn?! @w@

[EDIT] - After a trip to good old Erik in the Goldsmith's guild, he confirms that Chakra is in fact aether of the body and not an external source... which would mean a Monk would hold incredible amounts of Aether. I'm wondering if Chakra gates are in fact pools of refined and stored aether that are increasingly refined the further along the chakra gates you venture... or simply just hold more than the last... or maybe add to the last so as to increase their power and such.

That does it. I'll make a new thread because I needs this juicy lore!

Melkire · **06-11-2015, 11:57 AM**

Quick lore dump on monks and chakra so we can get back to talking about arcanima per the OP.

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Gegenji · **06-11-2015, 12:05 PM**

The following is my thoughts on aether, life force, the difference between the two, and how magic overall works in FFXIV. Your mileage may vary.

As I see it, everyone has a level of "excess aether" beyond that which is considered their life force. This is the personal well of aether that people draw on to perform their spells and the like. The size of this well differs from person to person, which is why you have situations like with the Cocobuki brothers in the THM guild - the one brother does not possess a large enough well to cast spells. Like other physical exertion, recovering from using this wellspring requires rest time or outside support (ethers and the like).

Also, since both this aether and your life force are effectively one and the same, you can use life force in place of your aether well. However, considering this is aether that is keeping you alive - it's not a very good idea. It is likely painful (Convert - you lose HP to do it), and likely fatal if used too much (CNJ quest line).

Using said aether is a tricky process. It is undefined, unshaped energy - and thus requires a manner of training and a focus in which to refine it into its intended purpose. THM use the gems in their staves as a focus, and ACN use the books and the formulae within them. Attempting to cast a spell of any significant power without such a focus would likely be difficult and the spell itself erratic and unpredictable without an intense level of mental fortitude.

The limits of these personal wellsprings are what led to the development of Black Magic. Rather than draw on one's own excess aether - you just take the aether from around you. Succor does this to a degree as well, which is why the clash between the two was so devastating to the world as a whole - aether was being directly ripped from the planet in great volumes in the War of the Magi. So the Elementals decided to cut this drain off at the source and just wiped it all clean.

Aether doesn't have to be forcefully taken, though. CNJ is proof enough of that - coaxing external aether from the elements around you. And, technically, the summons of both Scholars and Summoners is drawing on an outside aetheric source - elementals again and the remnant energy of Primals, respectively.

As for MNKs, I like to believe that their "chakra" also serve as a manner of focus - and "opening" them is basically learning how to use those key points in one's personal aetheric flow to focus and refine aether to perform great physical feats. Whether it's one's own flow of aether, or drawing from the world around them, I am uncertain. As much as I like the idea of another method of utilizing the ambient aether, I can very neatly see the process as just being a training method to utilize one's own aetheric resources.

To bring this back to the point at hand, though, I would be left wondering what source of aether would be involved in these tattoos? As I mentioned, if they're being used simply as a focus, then putting it on someone with a non-existent aetheric well would either a.) do nothing since they don't have the aether to cast it normally, or b.) draw on their life force instead, which would be horrendously dangerous. So, the tattoos would be only useful to those who could likely learn to cast the spell normally given the talent and training. As mentioned, possibly to avoid being disarmed without your usual focus or perhaps because they have issue tapping into this well with the usual methods.

However, if part of the creation of this tattoo involves infusing it with a bit of your own aether? Then we could have a situation of being able to provide an artificial wellspring. An outside source, like with the Elementals.

If this is the case, we have to wonder - how would such a thing work? Is that aether just there to cast the spell once and then it's done? Or would it somehow recover like one's natural aetheric wellspring? If it's the latter, then what would be the limit of this external aether source and how long would it take to recover?

LadyRochester · **06-11-2015, 12:14 PM**

(06-11-2015, 12:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: The following is my thoughts on aether, life force, the difference between the two, and how magic overall works in FFXIV. Your mileage may vary.

As I see it, everyone has a level of "excess aether" beyond that which is considered their life force. This is the personal well of aether that people draw on to perform their spells and the like. The size of this well differs from person to person, which is why you have situations like with the Cocobuki brothers in the THM guild - the one brother does not possess a large enough well to cast spells. Like other physical exertion, recovering from using this wellspring requires rest time or outside support (ethers and the like).

Also, since both this aether and your life force are effectively one and the same, you can use life force in place of your aether well. However, considering this is aether that is keeping you alive - it's not a very good idea. It is likely painful (Convert - you lose HP to do it), and likely fatal if used too much (CNJ quest line).

Using said aether is a tricky process. It is undefined, unshaped energy - and thus requires a manner of training and a focus in which to refine it into its intended purpose. THM use the gems in their staves as a focus, and ACN use the books and the formulae within them. Attempting to cast a spell of any significant power without such a focus would likely be difficult and the spell itself erratic and unpredictable without an intense level of mental fortitude.

The limits of these personal wellsprings are what led to the development of Black Magic. Rather than draw on one's own excess aether - you just take the aether from around you. Succor does this to a degree as well, which is why the clash between the two was so devastating to the world as a whole - aether was being directly ripped from the planet in great volumes in the War of the Magi. So the Elementals decided to cut this drain off at the source and just wiped it all clean.

Aether doesn't have to be forcefully taken, though. CNJ is proof enough of that - coaxing external aether from the elements around you. And, technically, the summons of both Scholars and Summoners is drawing on an outside aetheric source - elementals again and the remnant energy of Primals, respectively.

As for MNKs, I like to believe that their "chakra" also serve as a manner of focus - and "opening" them is basically learning how to use those key points in one's personal aetheric flow to focus and refine aether to perform great physical feats. Whether it's one's own flow of aether, or drawing from the world around them, I am uncertain. As much as I like the idea of another method of utilizing the ambient aether, I can very neatly see the process as just being a training method to utilize one's own aetheric resources.

To bring this back to the point at hand, though, I would be left wondering what source of aether would be involved in these tattoos? As I mentioned, if they're being used simply as a focus, then putting it on someone with a non-existent aetheric well would either a.) do nothing since they don't have the aether to cast it normally, or b.) draw on their life force instead, which would be horrendously dangerous. So, the tattoos would be only useful to those who could likely learn to cast the spell normally given the talent and training. As mentioned, possibly to avoid being disarmed without your usual focus or perhaps because they have issue tapping into this well with the usual methods.

However, if part of the creation of this tattoo involves infusing it with a bit of your own aether? Then we could have a situation of being able to provide an artificial wellspring. An outside source, like with the Elementals.

If this is the case, we have to wonder - how would such a thing work? Is that aether just there to cast the spell once and then it's done? Or would it somehow recover like one's natural aetheric wellspring? If it's the latter, then what would be the limit of this external aether source and how long would it take to recover?

Alright, spoiler alert, my character suffers from a genetic condition, which I may or may not use in the plot if necessary:

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You could use crystals as an aetherial source, or even elementals, but unless they are conjurers, they might not like that. Of course, one could use their life force, assuming that they know the risks.

I do agree with your magical lore, you explained it better than I ever could. I have written lore on aether extensively, which you can find under the "Journals" of the Coral sea, in her research lore. The last post I have made speaks of different types of aether as well as tiers/intensity, but I will warn that it's headcanon.

LadyRochester · **06-11-2015, 12:41 PM**

(06-11-2015, 12:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: However, if part of the creation of this tattoo involves infusing it with a bit of your own aether? Then we could have a situation of being able to provide an artificial wellspring. An outside source, like with the Elementals.

If this is the case, we have to wonder - how would such a thing work? Is that aether just there to cast the spell once and then it's done? Or would it somehow recover like one's natural aetheric wellspring? If it's the latter, then what would be the limit of this external aether source and how long would it take to recover?

I forgot to mention one thing. What about "Ether" potions? The ones that restore your MP? Would they serve as a good resource, if so, where does the aether from such potions come from? Depending on the answer, this might actually be the answer to all these questions, no?

Gegenji · **06-11-2015, 01:42 PM**

So using ethers to refill the artificial wellspring? I suppose that could work, yeah. A reservoir that has to be manually refilled rather than recovering naturally over time. I'm just wondering how the ether's... ether-ness would get to the tattoo's wellspring in that case. Unless you rub it into the tattoo like a lotion or something.

Or we just assume the magical mystery drink works because it's a magical mystery drink. Laugh

Qhora Bajihri · **06-11-2015, 03:43 PM**

Done the ink-on-skin flavor as the painter, not the wearer. And it was impermanent, specially prepared for special occasions, used once, then gone, and not quite like just using skin as a book page, a little different, almost like making a magic item/potion with an effect, but instead of something held in the hand or consumed by mouth, it's a string of magic ink laying over the skin, activated by touch and spell cast. At least that's how I saw it. I won't go into too much detail, since it really wasn't my story, per se, but it's certainly a fun concept to play with.

Verad · **06-11-2015, 04:00 PM**

It's an idea only as interesting as its potential to go horribly, horribly wrong. Otherwise it's an interesting aesthetic decision for explaining why your character has certain abilities or an excess of aether, but no more or less than any other aesthetic decision.

So that's my question: instead of "how could we make this work," what about "How could this go wrong in ways that are useful for roleplay?"

Chris Ganale · **06-11-2015, 04:01 PM**

Interestingly enough, this sort of thing is almost exactly what Chao used for magic in the source manga I took her from. She had spell sigils tattooed all over her body that forced magic through her to allow her to cast, at the cost of it being an extreme strain on her system and causing her severe pain. And when overused in the midst of a magic duel with her ancestor trying to overpower one another's A-class spells, the sigils exploded violently and cost her the battle.

Scorpio Shirica · **06-11-2015, 04:02 PM**

My understanding is that the algorithm is the focus, but the ink helps amplifies Arcanists' own use of his or her aether. If it was a commonly used construct, then I imagine the Arcanist could draw out the construct in his mind a lot easier with a tattoo that has aether-conductive metal based ink than he might without any illustration. However, it wouldn't be as easy as pulling it straight from the pages of a Grimoire. So it might be more limited by not only space on their body, but also how much experience they have with that particular algorithm.

I'm toying with the idea of having the tattoo of the summoning ritual for Scorpio's Carbunkle across his chest or back. He learned it in his youth when studying Arcane magics, before he was a fully trained Arcanist and the idea is that he learned it under a great deal of stress or trauma. Not having his own Grimoire yet, he didn't want to forget how to summon this being that saved his life and set to having it tattooed on his body. It would also build some of the inter-personal conflict (by being super weird) he had with his Duskwight clan, leading up to his eventual exile.

LadyRochester · **06-11-2015, 04:24 PM**

(06-11-2015, 04:00 PM)Verad Wrote: It's an idea only as interesting as its potential to go horribly, horribly wrong. Otherwise it's an interesting aesthetic decision for explaining why your character has certain abilities or an excess of aether, but no more or less than any other aesthetic decision.

So that's my question: instead of "how could we make this work," what about "How could this go wrong in ways that are useful for roleplay?"

I wouldn't mind the experiments going awry, in fact, I kind of expect them to. I alright with this causing tension between my character and others, but, again, I want to make sure this works with the lore somewhat. And like another poster said before, I don't want people to treat this as an opportunity to get "Mary-Sue" implants.

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RP Idea: Is this too crazy? Feedback wanted!

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