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**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-17-2015, 09:01 PM**

(04-17-2015, 08:43 PM)Hammersmith Wrote: Real easy. Â RP with someone. Â Get them involved in your stuff. Â Get them wrapped up in your plotlines. Â Get them in your orbit and start making sure all their other stuff comes into your orbit. Â Make them orbit you.

Isolate them.Â

Them promise you'll shut down all their fun, ever, if they don't [do as you say]. Â Promise to turn all your friends (And now theirs, because they're part of your group) against them if they don't do what you say.

Grooming, blackmail, extortion.

See what I said about emotionally manipulative assholes. Â It's a common tactic even against adults, and it's a known tactic used against minors by predators a LOT. Â You see this sort of shit with charismatic sociopaths as well.

You don't forget it after you see it happen to someone. Â It's why I said make a lot of friends. Don't focus, don't orbit one person. Â If you aren't being allowed to or are being manipulated into avoiding contacting/playing with others outside a clique by one person, it's a red flag.

...I've actually seen a lot more of this happen among non-ERPers than anyone I've known to engage in ERP. I've seen friends get completely ousted for "reasons" without any proof, and seen friends of that friend stop because of tumblr posts gone wild.

Ultimately, it comes down to confronting the person. Does the [potentially] emotionally abusive person know what they're doing? Are they aware of it? Is there malicious intent? I won't make judgements based on hearsay anymore because I've seen accusations come from every direction, in cases where sometimes the accused was innocent.

Communication's an important tool in these things. It can make or break all relationships.

Hammersmith · **04-17-2015, 09:07 PM**

(04-17-2015, 09:01 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: ...I've actually seen a lot more of this happen among non-ERPers than anyone I've known to engage in ERP. I've seen friends get completely ousted for "reasons" without any proof, and seen friends of that friend stop because of tumblr posts gone wild.

Ultimately, it comes down to confronting the person. Does the [potentially] emotionally abusive person know what they're doing? Are they aware of it? Is there malicious intent? I won't make judgements based on hearsay anymore because I've seen accusations come from every direction, in cases where sometimes the accused was innocent.

Communication's an important tool in these things. It can make or break all relationships.

Oh, you def. see it almost anywhere. Â And there's perfectly normal ways of dealing and mediating it outside of the context we're talking, for sure.

In the context of sexual anything, though, it's a seriously terrible thing.

allgivenover · **04-17-2015, 09:37 PM**

(04-17-2015, 08:49 PM)Hammersmith Wrote: True, but it's easier to recognize once it's known to you.

Also it's not social engineering, or a pick up game. Â that really downplays the consequences of this sort of really terrible behavior. Â in the context we're addressing, it's strait up sexual predation. Â It's fucking horrifying.

(Notice I have Views on this. Â Because Reasons.)

Manipulation IS social engineering, but I think we'd just be mincing words at this point.

Cato · **04-18-2015, 02:04 AM**

(04-17-2015, 02:39 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 01:23 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: more likely than unlikely.
This assertion, no matter the topic, demands proof to support it.

Proof that would trigger the rules against naming and shaming were I to provide evidence. Not that I'd do that, mind you. I prefer not to gossip about specific individuals and their online habits.

You're free to take the words in my previous post with a hefty pinch of salt, of course! I don't mind if people ERP to get their rocks off - I just wish more people were honest about it. It may not be the main drive but it does play a part in why many people do it. Whether it's because they're looking for a quickie in the Quicksand with a big breasted Miqo'te or something slow, sensual and romantic with a trusted partner then on some level people are doing it because it makes them feel good.

Sex is, after all, natural. What's important is keeping it in healthy moderation, safe and free of drama both in the real world and whilst playing make believe online.

Xenedra · **04-18-2015, 03:14 AM**

Doing/Did a little clean up, let's keep this wire-walking thread on track.

ArmachiA · **04-18-2015, 03:19 AM**

(04-17-2015, 08:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: How the hell does non-consensual ERP happen?

Block, report.

Done.

wtf m8

LET ME TELL YOU A STORY. It's not like real ERP but...

So Ellion way back in FFXI roleplayed basically the same character, just a little younger and a little more naive. Ellion was pretty new to the Roleplaying scene and wanted to make a good impression, so he roleplayed often and hardly ever left character. He asked a lot of questions about how to rp properly and was really trying to make himself "worthy" in the eyes of the more veteran RPers in the ls.

In walks one of my more Veteran RPers - who was playing someone with a split personality. During one of our RP sessions in the warehouse in Bastok, her other personality suddenly decides to take over and jump Ellion, trying to strip him to have sex with him without his consent.

The rest of us were about 10 yards away and had no idea this was going on, but Ellion was highly, highly uncomfortable and didn't give her consent. He tried to tell her he wasn't comfortable, but she told him he would have to roll to see if he pushed her off. Thinking this was just what super serious roleplayers did, he rolled and... rolled a 7. She rolled in the high 80's. She starts stripping him of his pants DESPITE his confused protests OOC. It was about the third roll (Not kidding: He rolled three 7s in a row) that someone was finally in range and alerted me to what was going on (I wasn't his girlfriend at the time, just his guild leader) and we put a stop to it.

He had no idea he was allowed to say no OOCly. And TO THIS DAY he has a lot of issues about more sexual RP because of it. He said he felt oddly violated.

Now-a-days we make fun of it (THe NB has a "NEVER ROLL A 7 OR YOU LOSE YOUR PANTS" rule) but he was really uncomfortable for awhile.

Nicholas Graveshire · **04-18-2015, 04:46 AM**

The thing is that consensual ERP shouldn't be demonized by a roleplay community uncomfortable to broach the subject. Humans as a race are very sexually driven creatures. It's how we've managed to not die out yet. If you choose write in how your character feels about sex, sexuality, and all the different details that go with it? Your choice. If you choose to not delve into those details about your character? Also your choice. No one should have to feel uncomfortable and it's perfectly fine to go with either routine, and even into the spectrum in between those two options.

I have no problem with two consenting adults ERPing. I have no problems with people playing miqo'te dragoons. At the end of the day, it's roleplay. People do what they find to be fun and enjoyable and if you disagree? Don't roleplay with them.

Hammersmith · **04-18-2015, 07:25 AM**

(04-18-2015, 03:19 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 08:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: How the hell does non-consensual ERP happen?

Block, report.

Done.

wtf m8

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SnipLET ME TELL YOU A STORY. It's not like real ERP but...

So Ellion way back in FFXI roleplayed basically the same character, just a little younger and a little more naive. Ellion was pretty new to the Roleplaying scene and wanted to make a good impression, so he roleplayed often and hardly ever left character. He asked a lot of questions about how to rp properly and was really trying to make himself "worthy" in the eyes of the more veteran RPers in the ls.

In walks one of my more Veteran RPers - who was playing someone with a split personality. During one of our RP sessions in the warehouse in Bastok, her other personality suddenly decides to take over and jump Ellion, trying to strip him to have sex with him without his consent.

The rest of us were about 10 yards away and had no idea this was going on, but Ellion was highly, highly uncomfortable and didn't give her consent. He tried to tell her he wasn't comfortable, but she told him he would have to roll to see if he pushed her off. Thinking this was just what super serious roleplayers did, he rolled and... rolled a 7. She rolled in the high 80's. She starts stripping him of his pants DESPITE his confused protests OOC. It was about the third roll (Not kidding: He rolled three 7s in a row) that someone was finally in range and alerted me to what was going on (I wasn't his girlfriend at the time, just his guild leader) and we put a stop to it.

He had no idea he was allowed to say no OOCly. And TO THIS DAY he has a lot of issues about more sexual RP because of it. He said he felt oddly violated.

Now-a-days we make fun of it (THe NB has a "NEVER ROLL A 7 OR YOU LOSE YOUR PANTS" rule) but he was really uncomfortable for awhile.

This is a really good example of pressure applied as a weapon. Â And to be sure, in these kinds of communities, you have a LOT of people who have trouble saying no, don't understand how things work, and don't want to ruin what frail social ties they have/don't have the confidence to say no to someone with higher standing.

Don't abuse that. Don't Be That Guy/Gal.

Hyrist · **04-18-2015, 10:03 AM**

I think it's clear that most people here are adults who have experienced or heard of the horror stories surrounding ERP.

But that inherently does not make ERP bad, and open communication and talks like these are actually very health for the community.Â

If someone wishes to explore the avenues of Erotic Roleplay, they should not feel shamed to do so, ESPECIALLY if they're new to the field. They need to confident enough to speak up if they feel uncomfortable or pinned, and public shaming of the the practice can make some people clam up about it. And that's the kind of environment in which predators thrive. They will give that avenue a vent and a comfort and then clamp down on it, and twist it to their desires regardless of the consent of the victim.

All silence and evasive discussion does is empower those creeps who would take advantage of misinformation, isolation, and the lack of comfortable avenues of communication.

The fundamental three Cs of role-playing are just, if not more important in ERP as it is in RP. Consent, Communication, Cooperation.Â

I'd actually urge people not to feel so awkward about the subject. If it's something two consenting adults wish to do, then that should be ok by everyone. We want to keep that avenue of communication open for if and when such interactions go sour, so that emotional cornering and extortion can be nipped in the bud before it develops into a full on emotionally abusive relationship. Even through online means, it can do terrible things to a persons confidence and psyche.

Wymsical · **04-18-2015, 10:31 AM**

Well, people seem to have covered all the important bases by now. The comfort of you and your roleplay partner really is the most important factor here; I'll write whichever but some people get way too upset with either choice. The guys who get upset when they realize IC romance doesn't mean OOC, the girls who outright stopped writing with my male characters when they figured out I'm not a guy OOC... and the people with either preference scoffing at people on the opposite side.Â

I think my strangest experience yet was a guild OOC chat where a bunch of female members nearly got me kicked from the guild for admitting I ERP sometimes... and then immediately went back to making incredibly lewd jokes and stories about their male characters.

People can be judgmental jerks when it comes to anything regarding sex, no matter what their view is.

K'nahli · **04-18-2015, 11:11 AM**

I have no problem with RP'ers who happen to ERP but I admit that I just get annoyed whenever I see an actual ERP'er; probably largely do to the fact that almost every, single one of them just happen to be miqo'te - and while I know I should just ignore it, I can't help but feel my main's race is just the victim of some debaucherous image and I already despise the stigma that miqo'te are, for whatever reason, often slapped with. Even the terms "Catgirls" and "Catbois" have started grating on my nerves a little lately.

I like looking at roleplayers and seeing what their comments are or just to see if anyone is an RP'er in general, though whenever I see a miqo'te in hempen underwear or whatever I just find myself hoping in vain that it's not another one. I've seen SO many in the Quicksand lately and it just throws me for some reason. Especially when you're just there, enjoying the scene in the Quicksand(OOCly in my case) and then you notice there are two people targeting each other next to you and doing... twelve knows what..Â

I don't know. I guess it's just that I love this game and the sweet and innocent(outside of the story) nature it almost perpetually carries along with it. Seeing people turning it into a porn experience for themselves just turns me off.... especially when there's at least one character out there who doesn't look too, f*cking unlike mine.

Maybe I'm just being a judgemental prude about this particular topic though. I just hold a few things "sacred" and it annoys me to see people sully it into something else. There's actually a game set to come out in the future that a friend and I intend to play and it's one of the most innocent things imaginable, but due to the fact it allows you to create your own worlds/towns/levels and such, didn't the developers find themselves receiving and answering this question that was listed along with another 20 or so submitted by fans of the upcoming production....

"Is it permissible for users to create their own hentai games?"

I have no fear or dislike for sex but jesus... why must it be brought into absolutely everything by these people?Â *headdesks*Â Â Â Â Â

Edvyn · **04-18-2015, 11:22 AM**

(04-18-2015, 11:11 AM)K Wrote: I have no fear or dislike for sex but jesus... why must it be brought into absolutely everything by these people?Â *headdesks*Â Â Â Â Â

people forever seek what they will never have Thumbsup

allgivenover · **04-18-2015, 11:53 AM**

(04-18-2015, 11:11 AM)K Wrote: I have no problem with RP'ers who happen to ERP but I admit that I just get annoyed whenever I see an actual ERP'er; probably largely do to the fact that almost every, single one of them just happen to be miqo'te - and while I know I should just ignore it, I can't help but feel my main's race is just the victim of some debaucherous image and I already despise the stigma that miqo'te are, for whatever reason, often slapped with. Even the terms "Catgirls" and "Catbois" have started grating on my nerves a little lately.

The thing is that Miqo'te are by nature promiscuous and portrayed to be so by the game, with many, many Seekers being proud prostitutes or eager to slip in bed with your character. Keepers are more subtle but the lore states clearly that the idea of only having one lover is abhorrent to them. Promiscuity is lore when it comes to Miqo'te.

This combined with them being.. well, they're cat-people. Cat girls/boys is one of the most popular kinks around, you're going to get that crowd along with the basic idea of cat-people.

Personally, I had Rakka'li get around a LOT in roleplay (to the point of being so sick of it that I wrote a reason for him to be emotionally distraught over the idea of casual sex so that I could avoid it easily), because that's what I firmly believed he'd be inclined to do as a "typical Keeper male" in this mindset, and I can assure you that there's plenty of non-Miqo'te who ERP, plenty.

I chose a Keeper male way back when we first got the lore because they were stated to be heavily matriarchal, and sound reasoning lead us to believe that promiscuity would be their tendency (it was a long time before we got proof, but mine, Rakka'sae's, and Myxie's conclusions hit the nail on the head) so I wanted to see what people would do with this very strange, very unusual culture. If not for that combination of assumed promiscuity and matriarchal tendencies I would've been a Duskwight.

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Unfortunately, there's only so much weird that 99% of roleplayers can accept. Even those that advertised being traditional keepers that engaged in promiscuity ended up in the majority just slipping back into real life typical sexual mores (or worse, using the culture as a cover for lesbian/futa fetishization). After a year and a half I gave up entirely.

So yes, there's plenty of poor ERPs who use Miqo'te as a vehicle for their sexcapades, but there were a few of us who were honestly interested in exploring that weirdness in RP and seeing what others would do with it, or how it would react with others (the answer is they fucking ignored it, spoilers).

Seeker sexual mores are a hot button issue around here, but I sometimes wonder if they had better luck exploring that weirdness than I did with Keepers.

Hyrist · **04-18-2015, 12:57 PM**

(04-18-2015, 11:11 AM)K Wrote: I don't know. I guess it's just that I love this game and the sweet and innocent(outside of the story) nature it almost perpetually carries along with it.

Um...Â

I don't want to burst your bubble ,but 'sweet and innocent' doesn't really translate into my impression of FFXIV.

Sexual innuendo and jokes are laden everywhere. Even in its history.

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In terms of Final Fantasy games, FFXIV is quite lewd. I really can't agree with the innocence idea of it. Implications of things far darker or more lewed all over the place. If anything I'd call the tone it maintains is idealistic - searching for all the specks of light amidst all the darkness, with the Player character at the forefront.

Wymsical · **04-18-2015, 01:44 PM**

Yeah, XIV is anything but sweet and innocent. The horror of what's going on in Sastasha, the Ala Mhigo storyline in the MSQ, the postmoogle quest about the Keepers, positively ENDLESS comments from NPCs including a reference about the temperature of a... err, deceased prostitute's tender bits and I could go on and on if I spent enough time hunting it down in the world. To say nothing of all non-sexual references to various horrific or grim scenarios that keep appearing throughout the game. It's everywhere.

And honestly, I like that they don't keep the art style of the game as a limiter on how lewd or grim they can be. But that's a personal appreciation of mine.

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