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Orlog · **06-25-2015, 06:17 AM**

(06-25-2015, 05:06 AM)Aaron Wrote: I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

Quietly reading this thread and I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could I get some clarification?

Are you referring to the OP as someone who wants to start trouble, or...? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convey here.

Aaron · **06-25-2015, 06:38 AM**

(06-25-2015, 06:17 AM)Orlog Wrote:
(06-25-2015, 05:06 AM)Aaron Wrote: I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

Quietly reading this thread and I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could I get some clarification?

Are you referring to the OP as someone who wants to start trouble, or...? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convey here.

The OP? No. Not at all.

Im referring to how in every circle of people there's always that /one/ person who just has to be the one to go to another group of people and talk about someone behind their backs. Whether out of jealousy, anger, or just a loony emotional state.

Or hell, maybe they do it because they want validation in something said person disagreed with. Reasons are endless.

Its common in social groups if not an outright given. And because of this, there's always drama to be had one day or another.

Leggerless · **06-25-2015, 09:35 AM**

Don't be an ass, basically.

Olofantur · **06-25-2015, 10:48 AM**

Excellent brain food,

This brings up some interesting ideas... After reading other peoples posts it definitely seems a common line that a good deal of this (what's a good term for it. "OOC back chat"? I feel like gossiping can be seen as fairly mundane. Anyroad.) Malignant Gossiping occurs towards people who used to be part of "X group" or "Y FC" and rarely towards the wandering vagrants.

Despite my lack of involvement with my current FC, and the way I skulk about the world in general it still surprises me how often I get a "Oh but I thought all of that FC was like ____ or didn't like ____ people and that you were an asshole" or what have you in compared to when I was a "freelancer". Although I was arguably ruder ICly/and less schedule reliable. Sometimes I wonder how Eorzea would be without FC's..

It would be an interesting experiment to compare how often people were bothered/harassed on a monthly basis broken down by how active they are in the RPC/ how many/what FC's and the same for linkshells. on an OOC vs IC basis as well as just time wise. (like theoretically, could having any more than one or two OOC LS's dramatically increase the amount of shittalking you have to go through?) None of that being an excuse for the harassers of course, I just like data.

Also because that leads me to wondering, since one of the two blow ups that i've been around (that I can recall) happened in an OOC LS. How's the fall out to these situations (on average)? I was in a linkshell when some frankly disturbing "he said she said" went down between the leader and some members about someone who had recently been booted, and I just left the shell asking them to reinvite me when they were done being a bunch of sassy sammies (I hate hearing about other peoples IC relations OOCly because i'm one of those "keep the encounter pure and free from potential meta information" peeps, and had made that clear upon joining mind you..) evidently not toeing the line and hearing how bad this removed person was, wasn't the right decision and I was denied re-entry.

Out of Curiosity, whats the rate of retention when this stuff happens? afaik I was the only person to leave due to the malignant gossiping although others have mentioned that they simply filtered the channel if it was a "practical" LS with a use (eg. Balmungs Finest.).

Thoughts? Either way Sasha well put.*

Edit: Miss spelt OP's name, much dishonor.

Arelian · **06-25-2015, 11:50 AM**

I feel like a thread of this nature crops up every few months, and it's always the same things being repeated by nearly the same people.

So let me start this post off by making one thing very clear: Calling out shitty behavior, no matter who it is, is not starting drama nor is it toxic. It is the antithesis to what made other MMO communities as horrible as they are now. Letting manipulative behavior continue all while pushing it under the rug to avoid any perceived drama is exactly where problems start.

That said.Â

It's possible to go overboard--it's possible to take it too far. You should never call someone out until you have confirmation of someone's shitty behavior first hand (See: The botched failzeroth bullshit on tumblr before Heavensward came out. That wasn't cool).

If you see someone doing something you don't like? Call them out on it. You don't need to make huge diatribes on tumblr or the RPC about it, but pulling people aside and telling them that you don't think their behavior is acceptable is good and necessary for a community--any community--to thrive. Making blanket ranting posts doesn't make anything better, it just makes people slightly butthurt because what if they're talking about me?Â It's passive aggressive at best.

Accepting how things are, if you don't like it, isn't necessary and isn't really all that good for one's enjoyment of anything. Be the change you wish to see!Â

And after all that, I say that this community really isn't half as bad as any ranting posts/tumblr drama makes it out to be. It's one of the most diverse (OOCly at least), positive and friendly communities I've ever had the enjoyment of being a part of. If you focus too much on the negative, it's easy to see nothing but that. Â Smile! Tell some dumb motherfuckers that they're being negative/too aggressive and distance yourself from them if they respond poorly to that.

Addison · **06-25-2015, 12:52 PM**

The whole "I'm going to post my drama all over tumblr" sounds so foreign and quite frankly stupid and asinine to me.

Ashe · **06-25-2015, 01:27 PM**

OOCly complaining about people's IC stuff hasn't actually happened in any of my circles...I know someone told their friends about my RP with them but when I first met them it seemed more positive than negative. Â Then again, I have a habit of dragging this person's character into some pretty crazy stuff... <--- Meant this as a joke btw. This dude is awesome haha

OOCly complaining about OOC stuff, yeah. I'll admit to that too. Â But it always gets resolved though talking through misunderstandings, etc.

I donno. Â I never take people's IC stuff to heart. Â Especially because I RP a character who is a jerk...I know that OOCly I'd probably hit him in the face if he said the stuff he says to people >>Â

THAT BEING SAID. Â For my FC, we have implemented IC interviews for people who want to join. Â This is not to limit by ability but to limit people who are either trolls or more focused on ERP than actual RP plots. The only IC-ish/OOCish drama I've had was an FC council issue with excessive ERP that gave the people who seriously wanted to RP a bad name...and that was resolved by restructuring an FC and leaving the ERPers to their own FC. Â

I don't get what you can complain about? People's characters? Plot ideas?Â
Everyone I've RP'd with seems above that BS though...It's about having fun. Â If I need three posts to express something but a new person only needs one, so be it. They'll learn and adopt their own RP style. I donno...I guess I have too much fun RPing stuff to care to complain about it later? Never found anything to complain about with any of the plots I've gone through...

Gaspard · **06-26-2015, 03:23 AM**

Hrm.. let's address each point seperately

Quote:1. There's aÂ lotÂ of OOC butthurt based on IC interactions (and vice-versa):Â While most people claim they "would never take IC OOC!" claims like this should be taken with a grain of salt. I play a manipulative character that often deceives people, and more than once I had to deal with unnecessary OOC drama because someone took offense to my IC actions, despite my warnings about her personality and tendencies. If it fits the character, don't get angry at the player. I understand being all "Aw, I didn't expect that..", I even understand pouting for a bit! But becoming bitter and treating the player as your sworn enemy over RP is hurtful and silly, which leads me to the next thing...

Completely agree with that statement. But it's clearly based on some preceeding example situation which you didn't completely explain.

Give us a whole account of your example like, what IC actions they took offense to, what OOC communication happened prior, what consequences it had for the other players, and then we can talk about whether 'OOC Butthurt' was justified in that case or not. I'd be hard pressed to say 'you're right' If we don't even know 'Why' those 'Butthurt' people got angry in the first place.

Details Plz.

Quote:2. People do aÂ lotÂ of OOCÂ gossiping:Â Shock and awe. This is probably old news to everyone, but still something that should be brought to light. I don't know why, but people talk a lot of shit OOC. I can't say I am completely innocent myself, but I've seen people literally obsessed over other players. And many of the people who spread these rumors are hardly ever questioned, while the subject of the topic is almost never spoken to for the sake of knowing the truth.

People are People, and People talk. Often about other People. They do that in good light, and in bad light. I know, Captain Obv. strikes again but, ranting over OOC gossipping is like ranting over 'social behavior' in general.Â

We're not holy spirits that radiate marshmellows and love 24/7.

Quote:3. There are a lot of (hypocritical) Social Justice Warriors:Â Many people try to fight for "justice" and go on witch-hunts against players they consider "so meeen!" when told a story without given proper context. This has led to endless harassment towards people that truly don't deserve it based on loose "proof" and false stories. And yet again, nobody ever questions the source or bothers to contact the subject of the topic.

I'd strike out the 'Social Justice Warrior' bit and just go with Hypocrites, given your example. Endless Harassment based on loose 'proof' and hearsay is most often just a 'Hey!, he was mean to our friend, let's fuck him up!' Scenario. That's work for the GM's. Though again I question how that harassment you speak of actually looks like. Have you been harassed in such fashion or seen it? and if so, in what fashion?

Because voicing distaste for a certain action/behavior and a Social Justice Warrior witch-hunt including constant PM's / Harassment in whichever form are two very seperate things.

_________________________

As a last note;

I think you ended up hurt yourself over the way some people reacted to you and the way you play your character. You mentioned that you play a Manipulative Character and that people reacted in such fashion. I'll assume that a good bit of this thread was posted for that very reason.

If so, the only advice I can give you is this;

Usually, you will not change people or the way they behave through a simple forum post like this. And whatever is aggrivating those around you, is aggrivating them for a reason. Now I'm not saying they're rightfully upset, but if it's a pattern that repeats itself for you, there's perhaps more to it then 'People suck because they can't handle how realistically i play my character'

Â Either you're not explicit enough in your warnings, or you're ought to find yourself different roleplayers that are comfortable with maniplative / betraying characters. Playing Characters that are Anti-Social / Evil / Manipulative and playing them truthfully and to the core 'will' without a doubt rub some feathers the wrong way.

Either way, You can either choose to invest in heavy OOC communication beforehand with the players you're involved in to avoid such drama, or you can bank on it that they will keep getting 'rubbed' the wrong way. Atleast those that have thin hides and take things personally.

One way or another. If you want a more detailed answer to your rant, provide us with some more detailed examples please. Because so far this topic was nothing more then a;

Bringing OOC IC is bad / Gossiping is Bad / Being a Hypocrite is bad thread. Which obviously everyone will agree on. Bring more detailed examples of those situations and then we might get somewhere.

Thorgar · **06-26-2015, 05:46 AM**

(06-25-2015, 09:35 AM)Leggerless Wrote: Don't be an ass, basically.

*hugs* this.. um this, and yeah this again lol.

Nebbs · **06-26-2015, 06:00 AM**

(06-26-2015, 05:46 AM)Thorgar Wrote:
(06-25-2015, 09:35 AM)Leggerless Wrote: Don't be an ass, basically.
*hugs* this.. um this, and yeah this again lol.

Sadly Drama is there, it even spills over in to attacks and harassment.

All you can control is yourself, how you act and how you choose to let it affect you. It is unlikely you will change the cause of the drama by responding and judging them, this just feeds it more... then you have drama about drama.

Strive to be positive, there is no reward for being negative and don't waste your limited energy on it. And forgive people for yourself, not for them... this will always be a work in progress.

Leomoon · **06-26-2015, 07:03 AM**

I have gotten pulled into this myself but now I pretty much toss it all aside for "I am done with RP drama". I have had RP and C drama ever since I started this game and I have just had enough of it, I struggle with magic depression in real life so I don't want XIv to become a place I regret logging into.

Simply I just do not talk to this people, I have had one person talk to me and try to get me to removed my friends then later confess there love for me not understanding the words "I don't date people online". I have encounted and seen my share of SJW's and white knights in all forums. There is a small story in my TS of a friend getting kicked out of his FC because of some bitch who picked up her sword after he made a off color joke to a friend.

Simple best way to deal with it is to give the person who is wanting to make a crusade a good slap on the noggin and tell them to chill the fuck out.

Fox · **06-26-2015, 07:03 AM**

(06-24-2015, 09:36 AM)LadyRochester Wrote: 1. There's a lot of OOC butthurt based on IC interactions (and vice-versa):Â <snip>

Personally, I'm one to keep ic/ooc separate. I don't like the whole blur thing, it's awkward and irritating to deal with. I personally play the game to have fun. I play some pretty hard edged characters and some very cold, calculating people. I've even played villains. Though I keep my ic/ooc separate. I've been rping since I was 15, I'm going to be 32 now so I really don't have the time to deal with highschool-dramu where rp is concerned.

However, I will say this; I have dealt with people using characters as a weapon. This is not to say you are here; as I have no idea of the circumstances. I've seen it happen to other people, and I've dealt with it personally. In this sort of instance I would not call this sort of thing; someone being too sensitive. After a while it gets old to deal with the constant catty behaviors where players constantly use their characters to attack, berate and treat others badly and then snerk and hide behind a veil of "my character said it not me".

We take responsibility as players. And this goes not only not to be over sensitive but to not play dumb games where "my character said it, not me teehee". It's not cool, it's not fun and it's very obvious when this is happening. It's fine to play controversial characters or snarky characters. Though there is a line to draw. Now I haven't dealt with it in this game, which I am very happy for, but I've dealt with it in other communities. I'm glad that FFXIV has overall a very nice community.

LadyRochester · **06-26-2015, 07:11 AM**

(06-26-2015, 03:23 AM)Gaspard Wrote: As a last note;

I think you ended up hurt yourself over the way some people reacted to you and the way you play your character. You mentioned that you play a Manipulative Character and that people reacted in such fashion. I'll assume that a good bit of this thread was posted for that very reason.

If so, the only advice I can give you is this;

Usually, you will not change people or the way they behave through a simple forum post like this. And whatever is aggrivating those around you, is aggrivating them for a reason. Now I'm not saying they're rightfully upset, but if it's a pattern that repeats itself for you, there's perhaps more to it then 'People suck because they can't handle how realistically i play my character'

Â Either you're not explicit enough in your warnings, or you're ought to find yourself different roleplayers that are comfortable with maniplative / betraying characters. Playing Characters that are Anti-Social / Evil / Manipulative and playing them truthfully and to the core 'will' without a doubt rub some feathers the wrong way.

Either way, You can either choose to invest in heavy OOC communication beforehand with the players you're involved in to avoid such drama, or you can bank on it that they will keep getting 'rubbed' the wrong way. Atleast those that have thin hides and take things personally.

One way or another. If you want a more detailed answer to your rant, provide us with some more detailed examples please. Because so far this topic was nothing more then a;

Bringing OOC IC is bad / Gossiping is Bad / Being a Hypocrite is bad thread. Which obviously everyone will agree on. Bring more detailed examples of those situations and then we might get somewhere.

Unfortunately, bringing some issues to light would only provoke and stir more drama than necessary, despite not mentioning names. This thread was a rant, it isn't meant to be constructive. The IC/OOC thing only happened to me on two instances where I EXPLICITLY stated what my character could possibly do, however, there is far more to this thread, as I am also basing it on the experiences of friends and acquaintances of mine.

I would explain it in pm providing no names, but even then I'm highly reluctant to. This is an issue with the community, not the individuals involved in the experiences I've seen.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-26-2015, 10:23 AM**

[[takes out magitek mod device]]

Everyone. Do not contribute to the thread if you feel like you are going to be making personal attacks, whether direct or indirect. Calling people out in the thread is against the rules. Mods are beginning to receive a number of reports from this thread and if it cannot stay civil, it will be locked.

That said, I will be removing the off-topic posts, among other actions.

[[puts away magitek mod device]]

Thorgar · **06-26-2015, 11:29 AM**

(06-26-2015, 06:00 AM)Nebbs Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 05:46 AM)Thorgar Wrote:
(06-25-2015, 09:35 AM)Leggerless Wrote: Don't be an ass, basically.
*hugs* this.. um this, and yeah this again lol.

Sadly Drama is there, it even spills over in to attacks and harassment.

All you can control is yourself, how you act and how you choose to let it affect you. It is unlikely you will change the cause of the drama by responding and judging them, this just feeds it more... then you have drama about drama.

Strive to be positive, there is no reward for being negative and don't waste your limited energy on it. And forgive people for yourself, not for them... this will always be a work in progress.

I agree, i have gotten VERY angry from posts or RP before, thats when i'll excuse myself and walk away.Â Ill log and do offline stuff, hit the punching bags or pel pole, then 'maybe' comeback if i dont feel my blood pressure rise from reading it again.

i have failed this a few times and felt like a jackarse for doing so.Â I'll own my mistake and apologize even if i think my response was warranted. a personal attack or any post that treats people like shyte is to be avoided at all times.Â like my old Grandpa used to say "treat others as you want to be treated and the world is a much nicer place"Â Â course he also used to say "be kind and courteous at all times, you can always shoot them later if they earned it" lol.

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OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes