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Ildur · **09-03-2013, 05:57 PM**

That is true. You can infer what is possible in the game-universe by looking at their spells and skills. That is quite fine and I actually do it a lot.
But I ask: what lore do character levels entail? There are some mechanics that are only constructs with the intention of creating gameplay, not lore.
I wouldn't try to infer the in-character power of someone by looking at their level. It doesn't tell me anything, character-wise. It only tells me the players has time to play.

Communication and common sense is what solves most of problems with 'power levels': don't go around making shows of incredible powers in the street to any random passerby. Save that for when you are acquitained and are relatively sure they won't mind you casting a meteor on their head. Or even better: use the common sense and consider why you gave your character the ability to summon meteors out of nowhere.

Cato · **09-03-2013, 06:09 PM**

The only thing that really matters in role-play is whether or not someone is able to pull off a compelling, interesting character that fits the setting and doesn't rely on numerous gimmicks. To be blunt, some people just aren't cut out for role-play and it shows with how they present their characters. It's the same with pretty much every other activity out there - I'm terrible with technology but I'm pretty good at sports, acting and role-play.

If people can't figure out for themselves that it probably isn't a good idea to have their character conjure a meteor to kill someone else's character without their consent then I don't feel as though I'd lose out by choosing to ignore them entirely - especially since I don't have much in the way of time or patience for people who can't work out that you need to play fair and compromise when indulging in a group activity with other people.

LilMomoshi · **09-03-2013, 06:25 PM**

Well folks, I've enjoyed this quite a bit, and I'm glad to see so much debate and varied ideas around the subject, but I for one will probably head off to topics other than my own! Also, I should probably stop staring at this page at work. >.> Even if my job is fairly relaxed on that front.

Looking forward to joining you all as soon as Balmung lets me!

Mewnie · **09-03-2013, 07:44 PM**

(09-03-2013, 02:54 PM)Siobhain Wrote: Actually, by my admission, I -know- two people with characters like this already. ^.^Â

See, that's why you shouldn't forum before your morning coffee!Â Tonberry

I should specify that I haven't seen this to such an alarming extent on Balmung (granted, I haven't been able to play since last Thursday, ugh!). Just a trend I noticed on other fantasy MMOs. WoW being the prime culprit of this.

I do know my character would probably think twice about going someplace dangerous with someone who is missing limbs :p

As for the whole levels thing, everyone has brought up good points. As for RP duels, I tend to avoid them, as I find them really dull and boring. Not to mention ridiculous. But actual PvP does bring it's own sort of problems. Personally, I just avoid fighting if at all possible. Though I have gone into a PvP duel knowing I will lose, just because it'd make sense to do so (ie character running their mouth and getting smacked down cause of it).

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-03-2013, 08:23 PM**

(09-03-2013, 07:44 PM)Mewnie Wrote: Â As for RP duels, I tend to avoid them, as I find them really dull and boring. Not to mention ridiculous. But actual PvP does bring it's own sort of problems. Personally, I just avoid fighting if at all possible. Though I have gone into a PvP duel knowing I will lose, just because it'd make sense to do so (ie character running their mouth and getting smacked down cause of it).

I've tried to become more open to text-based fighting than I used to be (super strict PVP-based fighting is often only suitable for communities, large or small, that have agreed upon some sort of structure by which to judge the outcome). My primary issue with text-based fighting has always been the sometimes unintentional issue with not acknowledging other individuals joining in the scrap. I'll get onto that elsewhere, though.

I do have a question more pertinent to this thread and what you just said-- About how 'Special are we?'. Many people like to RP that they're fighters yet OOCly make it a point to avoid all potential conflict. In your case, do you go to efforts to build a character that's not the type to get into fights because you consciously know, as a player, you don't enjoy them? Or do you play a 'fighter-esque' character while avoiding fights with other members of the community that you may or may not instigate?

I understand, and here's where it's pertinent, that many RPers -want- to include the 'special snowflake' detail of being an awesome -insert-some-form-of-combat-specialist-here- and I also understand some of the reasoning (excuses?) for not wanting to actually fight other PCs, such as not wanting to fight in a guarded city or a sacred area. I'd just like a little more input on that special characteristic; if a character advertises what a great fighter they are, what ways do you implement, if not through PVE, Leveling, gear, text-based duels, etc. that characteristic so that others can witness that degree of skill during roleplay? 'You' being general, for anyone this pertains to.

Cato · **09-03-2013, 08:27 PM**

On the subject of mechanical limbs I've always been rather wary of interacting with characters that claim to be 'disabled' in some way, shape or form. A few pull it off tastefully, but the majority don't. If a character is blind, deaf or missing limbs then it shouldn't make them more powerful as a result. It's not a character flaw or a disadvantage if the character ends up being better off - which I suspect is a major reason as to why there's quite the aversion to characters with mechanical limbs that just so happen to be even more skilled at archery or combat than their peers who are still fully intact.

It's the same with characters who are depicted as having scars on almost every inch of their body and yet are somehow meant to be considered as strong and capable combatants. Chances are if you've been struck enough times in combat that your hide is one big canvas of scars you're probably not that good of a fighter.

Remis Locke · **09-03-2013, 08:52 PM**

See, Iâ€™ve never truly understood what a â€˜Sueâ€™ was until I just did some research on the subject. When I create characters I find the thing that makes them special is character progression. There is nothing more rewarding, more exhilarating, than having a character start at one point and through roleplay, discover new aspects about the character you never even considered. How they deal with love, loss, danger, things which every normal human beings struggle with. The stories we create with our characters is what makes them special in the end.
Â
My main character was just that, he crawled his way out of the gutter and fell into numerous chains of events which formed him into the person he is today. Neither strong with a sword, nor especially important, as a matter of fact I enjoy having him fail in his endeavours more than anything purely for humour sake.
Â
Iâ€™ve got to be completely honest when I say, in the past, I tended to back away from characters who could never be defeated, had powers that no one else possessed or in one particular case, played characters which just shouldnâ€™t be, like a Maiar from Tolkienâ€™s world on LOTRO. I just found it awkward, and when lore is being torn to pieces I suppose it did bother me. Do I instantly dislike the roleplayer behind the character and think less of them for their choice? Not in the slightest, we just clashed on point of view.
Â
I am new to the lore of Eorzea though realise there are many opportunities for characters to be powerful. Given the fact that those with a magical background are quite common, there is a large amount of opportunity to expand on that. So long as the characterâ€™s unique abilities arenâ€™t forced upon me and it is played responsibly Iâ€™d have no problem roleplaying with said character in the slightest.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-03-2013, 08:52 PM**

(09-03-2013, 08:27 PM)Theodric Brandt Wrote: A few pull it off tastefully, but the majority don't. If a character is blind, deaf or missing limbs then it shouldn't make them more powerful as a result.

It's the same with characters who are depicted as having scars on almost every inch of their body and yet are somehow meant to be considered as strong and capable combatants. Chances are if you've been struck enough times in combat that your hide is one big canvas of scars you're probably not that good of a fighter.

I think situations like Illidan Stormrage, Edward Elric, and Jet from CB probably influence a lot of people in that respect because those characters are special and unique in their worlds. I always assume that giving up physical sight, like in the case of Demon Hunters, gives many people as many drawbacks as benefits. Like... insanity... in that case, but otherwise -not- being able to physically see people makes things difficult. I went with a 'mute' once, who actually suffered the Curse of Tongues which rendered her unable to speak anything but Eredun. Incidentally, she didn't understand Eredun so many of the warlock or demon RPers who tried to converse with her only hurt her ears. This was mostly to practice my ability to emote to communicate points and while it turned out to be rather difficult, I steadfastly refused to explain what she was saying OOCly and was rewarded by having people interpret her actions they way one would have to interpret miming OOC. She could've gone to pen and paper, and did at times, but it was rather rare.

Still, not having words is a big drawback in and of itself. If you're in danger or trying to warn someone of something abstract very quickly, it's difficult to get your point across.

The scars thing, I can't wholly agree with if only because everyone has to start somewhere and if you were born with a sword in your hand -maybe- you never accumulated any terrible scars. If you were raised by particularly brutal fighters, you might have picked up numerous scars, each one teaching you when to move faster or more appropriately in a certain situation. Likewise, if you've moved on and continue to challenge even better fighters who specialize in what your weaknesses are, such as range, scars can continue to accumulate even if you are an 'expert' swordsman. Doesn't mean you're an expert at dodging arrows or fireballs to the face all the time.

I do like that you pointed that out though, because it does make sense to a degree, in many situations. Siobhain has scars on her forearms and shins, but her trainer was particularly disciplined-- pulling most of his strikes before they could land. Not all trainers are like this, however, and one might end up maimed, at least aesthetically, before they start picking up the harsh lessons.

Cesar · **09-03-2013, 08:52 PM**

Pertaining to the IC duels and text based combat. I am on of the ones who wishes they would implement a dueling system. But I am not totally against text-based combat. But without complete cooperation between the combatants that can get ridiculous. With actual PvP there isn't any excuses. (Lag or any other computer glitch is usually BS anyways.) When you lose a duel in PvP you just lose. Nothing is more humbling that getting your face planted by another player. Also it's more life like. There is an increase in heart-rate and the anticipation ha! With text based after twenty minutes (Which is totally un-realistic for an actual bout of combat.) You may or may not be done with the duel. I have always loved RPvP servers though.Â

Using the RPvP Idea it would also discourage all of those "masters of a secret special martial arts passed down by their great great grandfather" folks at bay. They would be stalked and killed instantly. Thus making more characters that are all crafting characters.

Strife · **09-03-2013, 08:54 PM**

Quote:I think, like anything else, going to extremes on 'specialness' one way or the other is bad.

On one hand, yes, the overpowered wunderkind, master of all disciplines of war, magic, land and hand is not a good thing. Even if that's actually possible in game (And in fact, some people approach this as time goes on, game-ability-sie).

On the other hand, playing an inept, dull, untalented drip with no redeeming qualities or special abilities is equally bad.

Without repeating what has already been said, this is exactly how I feel. I'm a normal person IRL, when I get home I want to RP being something a bit "more" than I can be IRL, but without going overboard and declaring myself to be Shiva inÂ Miqo'te form.

LilMomoshi · **09-03-2013, 09:36 PM**

(09-03-2013, 08:23 PM)Siobhain Wrote: I do have a question more pertinent to this thread and what you just said-- About how 'Special are we?'. Many people like to RP that they're fighters yet OOCly make it a point to avoid all potential conflict. In your case, do you go to efforts to build a character that's not the type to get into fights because you consciously know, as a player, you don't enjoy them? Or do you play a 'fighter-esque' character while avoiding fights with other members of the community that you may or may not instigate?

I understand, and here's where it's pertinent, that many RPers -want- to include the 'special snowflake' detail of being an awesome -insert-some-form-of-combat-specialist-here- and I also understand some of the reasoning (excuses?) for not wanting to actually fight other PCs, such as not wanting to fight in a guarded city or a sacred area. I'd just like a little more input on that special characteristic; if a character advertises what a great fighter they are, what ways do you implement, if not through PVE, Leveling, gear, text-based duels, etc. that characteristic so that others can witness that degree of skill during roleplay? 'You' being general, for anyone this pertains to.

I personally tend to involve myself in group RP events against DM'ed opponents (this can actually be a lot of fun, and I loved that my last guild on WoW did it), and get it out that way. I've been in too many situations where I'd get involved in a fight or conflict involving other players that just brushed off my involvement or ended up in me getting smashed up by a godmodder. Of course, that's something I'm going to be working on getting over, and being more of a part of again, now that I'm away from the WoW community.

I tend to take my level/skill-centric approach to my character in fights and use that as kind of a basis for it all, though. If my character knows few spells, that's all he or she has to work with, and they have to adapt it to the situation. If they're maxed out, then they have more to work with, and I try to adapt what spells/skills they use to the opponent they're facing, just as I would in PvP.

Dunno if that answers you, but there we are!

Dieuvont · **09-03-2013, 10:36 PM**

I believe this is a subject that does arise rather often and it is quite detrimental when it regards the community's view on characters that simply appear to be entirely too special. The Mary Sue concept is often the primary label we tend to apply to characters that present themselves as either untouchable or masters of all. However, there is even a tasteful way one may endeavour into playing a Mary Sue character.

My personal view and basis on whether I enjoy a character or not has immensely to do with the grounded and solid design of what presents the character as believable. That is, believable within the tasteful parameters the world and lore permits. This includes believable positives and believable negatives, or perhaps a concept that is merely neutral on both ends of the spectrum. When a character is designed in such a way as to draw natural interest towards it and in addition does not create an atmosphere of desperation, that in turn displays well developed character conceptualisation and purposeful mental effort.

This in turn does not negate the reality that there are a vast plethora of various character personalities, from positive to negative and everything in between, but instead shows that there is a conscious decision to create a character that, although may have great negative traits, still has purpose behind the actions they perform.

This is simply my personal view on characters and the issue regarding how special one ought to be. In conclusion, balance is key and perpetual awareness of your character design is the most optimal state a player can place themselves in to remain continuously creative in a tasteful and healthy manner.

Mewnie · **09-03-2013, 11:34 PM**

(09-03-2013, 08:23 PM)Siobhain Wrote: I've tried to become more open to text-based fighting than I used to be (super strict PVP-based fighting is often only suitable for communities, large or small, that have agreed upon some sort of structure by which to judge the outcome). My primary issue with text-based fighting has always been the sometimes unintentional issue with not acknowledging other individuals joining in the scrap. I'll get onto that elsewhere, though.

I do have a question more pertinent to this thread and what you just said-- About how 'Special are we?'. Many people like to RP that they're fighters yet OOCly make it a point to avoid all potential conflict. In your case, do you go to efforts to build a character that's not the type to get into fights because you consciously know, as a player, you don't enjoy them? Or do you play a 'fighter-esque' character while avoiding fights with other members of the community that you may or may not instigate?

I understand, and here's where it's pertinent, that many RPers -want- to include the 'special snowflake' detail of being an awesome -insert-some-form-of-combat-specialist-here- and I also understand some of the reasoning (excuses?) for not wanting to actually fight other PCs, such as not wanting to fight in a guarded city or a sacred area. I'd just like a little more input on that special characteristic; if a character advertises what a great fighter they are, what ways do you implement, if not through PVE, Leveling, gear, text-based duels, etc. that characteristic so that others can witness that degree of skill during roleplay? 'You' being general, for anyone this pertains to.

When I do play the more soldierly types, I tend to go for either the measured ones who just don't start fights and shrug and walk away from hot-headed punks. Or I play the hot-headed punk and will pick a fight with someone stronger and get a bloody nose in a duel- that is, if the other person is willing to do so. edit: I avoid RP fights mostly because they all end up being really awkward and silly drawn out affairs. Again, the ones I've seen have been in public spaces and you can't quite control who is interacting with who, as well as the general quality level :p But they do seem to devolve into RP pissing matches more often than not in my experience.

I do miss the bare knuckle dueling in Age of Conan. Many a good Cimmerian scrap was had at meets.

Zyrusticae · **09-04-2013, 01:23 AM**

(09-03-2013, 10:10 AM)Theodric Brandt Wrote: As for my own character, I tend to prefer to portray them as being able to handle themselves but more on the anti-hero side of the fence. They're usually flawed, even if they're intentions are pure. I find it much more interesting than being a flawless hero who can do no wrong. I guess it's why characters from the 'Game of Thrones' setting such as Jaime Lannister, Catelyn Stark and Cersei Lannister fascinate me so much.

Yeah, I tend towards this as well. It's not very often I play a character who's an honest goody-two-shoes - and when I do, they always have to have some kind of notable flaw (one has an annoying mental defect that makes speech very difficult for her, another tends towards dissociation when criticized in any way). My current main is a bit on the rough side - she means well and wants to become a hero, but is still interminably lazy when it comes to physical labor and possesses questionable ethics (though not morals - she's quite empathetic and it's the reason she's on a quest to become a hero in the first place).

But like many others in this thread, I must echo that the execution is really more important than the premise in any case. It's not really what flaws or strengths your character has that defines them, as much as how they deal with having those flaws or strengths. Someone with incredible martial might, for example, might despair at how their considerable ability is not enough to save everyone, for they cannot be everywhere at once. Someone who excels at all kinds of trades might find that they are completely at a loss as to what they want to focus on, and end up running into financial ruin because of it.

So I try not to judge based on concepts and premises, and more on whether or not someone is actually doing interesting things with those ideas. Unfortunately, Sturgeon's Law being what it is, most people have a difficult time with this. But it's not like I'm not going to give people a shot at it.

FenixDarkblaze · **09-04-2013, 01:34 AM**

I do enjoy playing characters that invite interaction in some form or another -- but not because of say, beauty or immaculate skill or anything of the sort. I don't want to be the center of the universe around whom everyone turns, but simply make it easy to find a reason to RP with my character, to want to interact with them.

For example, my World of Warcraft character, Solieyu, Â was a hyperactive, obnoxious and half-manic Night Elf. Playing that sort of character made it very easy for me to engage in RP with well, just about anyone because it was well within his personality to walk up to someone and start babbling about whatever was in his brain at that particular moment.Â

For my Final Fantasy character, Fenix, I'm taking a much different approach -- for me, this character is all about challenging myself to play something new and refreshing. He is a very mysterious, quiet character -- little is known about him, and he reveals very little. He is a skilled fighter, but he has realistic weaknesses and strengths -- at least, as far as I believe.

But to me, the trick to playing that sort of character is not to go overboard with it. Just because he is mysterious and a closed book doesn't mean his past has to be grand or filled with nothing but sorrow. I write him to have this air of mystery simply to invoke questions in other peoples' characters to allow hooks for interaction. 'Where does he come from?' 'Why is he so guarded about his past?' 'Who is he, really?' Things of that sort. Even if the truth behind his past is entirely mundane and 'normal,' I'm challenging myself to make the character intriguing enough to make people want to find that out. Maybe that's a bit attention seeking, but to me interaction is what RP is all about, and giving people ways to do that is helpful, I think.

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How Special Are We?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes