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Seriphyn · **03-13-2014, 10:12 PM**

All right, I'll concede the First World Problems jab was highly unnecessary and apologize, but it just seems for all the things to call Squeenix out on, not being able to use higher ilvl items on lower ilvl items seems to be a lower priority nitpick IMO. More importantly, being able to use higher ilvl items on lower levels for the vanity system would undermine the whole process of "Get more powerful, get cooler looking gear!". As someone has already said, it's for endgame use anyway.

As for melee fighters being able to use mage robes but mages can't use fighting gear...well, it's not arbitrary. Being able to move around comfortably in heavy armour is something that takes training. But a swordsman donning a half-robe or robe is relatively straightforward.Â

Again, I'm confident it's a lite RP decision by Squeenix. Keep in mind Squeenix have a lite RP plot device for EVERYTHING in the game. I'm more laying out the logic they're going by (or I think they're going by), rather than try to 'convince' anyone that it is 'right'. I just think Squeenix don't want Summoners in WAR AF, keeping the design of their 'world' intact.

Ildur · **03-13-2014, 10:12 PM**

If we had no fun at all we wouldn't waste our time complaining every time Squeenix fails to understand they don't need to reinvent the wheel. We would have moved on to something that deserved our criticism and showed signs of wanting to improve in not stupid ways.

I should also mentiont that I do not like that the vanity system was designed for end-game use. It's pretty silly, and it punishes people who haven't reached level 50 in all their classes, not to mention it strangles player creativity by forcing the AUTHOR's HOLY VISION upon them.

synaesthetic · **03-13-2014, 10:16 PM**

I have fun with this game; if I didn't, I would stop playing. However, I will not be silent when I think the developers are making a boneheaded move such as this. The only way to ensure that we as customers get our money's worth is to be as hard to please as possible. Square-Enix is a business. They are in it for the money. We have to be vigilant, critical and skeptical of anything and everything they do if we don't want to get screwed over.

Seriphyn · **03-13-2014, 10:28 PM**

Again, I don't think it's boneheaded. They want to keep the character design of their world intact. So no breakdancing monks in heavy plate armour. That's their logic, and ofc we are free to disagree with it. But it's not boneheaded IMO, depending on your point of view.

EDIT: Like Ildur notes it's the 'author's holy vision', but still disagrees with it on the grounds of creativity. I can dig that.

synaesthetic · **03-13-2014, 10:51 PM**

(03-13-2014, 10:12 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: As for melee fighters being able to use mage robes but mages can't use fighting gear...well, it's not arbitrary. Being able to move around comfortably in heavy armour is something that takes training. But a swordsman donning a half-robe or robe is relatively straightforward.Â

By this monumentally stupid logic, lalafell should not be allowed to play any jobs except spellcasters, or they should have such tremendous penalties to HP, defense and attack that they'd be totally useless in any real content.Â

Oh, and by your logic, roegadyn males would be the only race worth playing if you wanted to be a tank and all other race/sex combinations would absolutely pale in comparison.

By your logic, only one player per server should be allowed to be a Dragoon or a White Mage.

There is a thing called "Gameplay and Story Segregation" as well as another thing called "Acceptable Breaks From Reality." You clearly do not understand these things.

Illira · **03-13-2014, 10:51 PM**

(03-13-2014, 10:03 PM)Edgar Wrote: Do you guys have any fun on this game? Seriously, it seems every update you're all complaining!

This seems a little uncalled for...

Pretty sure this is the first time on the RPC that I've ever expressed really critical opinions of an update/mechanic... This is just something that I do feel really strongly about.

But I'm going to bow out of this thread. I've already said everything I wanted to on this subject.

Edgar · **03-13-2014, 10:53 PM**

(03-13-2014, 10:16 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: I have fun with this game; if I didn't, I would stop playing. However, I will not be silent when I think the developers are making a boneheaded move such as this. The only way to ensure that we as customers get our money's worth is to be as hard to please as possible. Square-Enix is a business. They are in it for the money. We have to be vigilant, critical and skeptical of anything and everything they do if we don't want to get screwed over.

I think you put it the best way, one that I can truly agree with. Still, I must point out that for all your complaining, it's not in the right place. This is not the official forum for XIV ARR, and I seriously doubt Yoshi-P checks this place for opinions.

If you guys really want to make the difference you say you want to, you'd best start by taking your issues to the right place.

I'm not saying you have no freedom of speech or right to discuss, here, (I am no moderator or admin, I do not lay claim to any power over the community) I'm just saying I find it misplaced.

Maybe that's why I interpret your statements as not having any fun with the game. Who knows.

Regardless, thank you for actually responding to me the way you did.

Edgar · **03-13-2014, 10:58 PM**

(03-13-2014, 10:51 PM)Illira Wrote:
(03-13-2014, 10:03 PM)Edgar Wrote: Do you guys have any fun on this game? Seriously, it seems every update you're all complaining!

This seems a little uncalled for...

When I need to say something, I can be blunt as a brick, I suppose.

Seriphyn · **03-13-2014, 11:29 PM**

(03-13-2014, 10:51 PM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(03-13-2014, 10:12 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: As for melee fighters being able to use mage robes but mages can't use fighting gear...well, it's not arbitrary. Being able to move around comfortably in heavy armour is something that takes training. But a swordsman donning a half-robe or robe is relatively straightforward.Â

By this monumentally stupid logic, lalafell should not be allowed to play any jobs except spellcasters, or they should have such tremendous penalties to HP, defense and attack that they'd be totally useless in any real content.Â

Oh, and by your logic, roegadyn males would be the only race worth playing if you wanted to be a tank and all other race/sex combinations would absolutely pale in comparison.

By your logic, only one player per server should be allowed to be a Dragoon or a White Mage.

There is a thing called "Gameplay and Story Segregation" as well as another thing called "Acceptable Breaks From Reality." You clearly do not understand these things.

I'm not talking about story. I'm talking about visual design. This isn't 'my logic'. This is the logic I think Squeenix is going for.

Is there any need for the vitriol? I already apologized for my 'First World Problems' comment, which I will reiterate was unneeded on my part. Did I directly insult you? So is there a need to do the same?

Gosh, calling each other 'monumentally stupid' over something as monumentally trivial as a computer game feature that really isn't even that crucial to gameplay...ah, that's the Internet for you I suppose.

synaesthetic · **03-13-2014, 11:55 PM**

Hey, you know what? Fuck you.Â

I decide what's important when it's myÂ money being spent. The absence of these arbitrary restrictions would not harm your enjoyment of the game IN THE SLIGHTEST. But the presence of them makes me really fucking depressed about how Squee makes design decisions--with dumb, fucking moronic restrictions foremost in mind.

Is there any technical reason for this arbitrary restriction? No. Hell no. This is just dumb. It's beyond stupid. It's monumentally fucking inane. There is no logical reason why you should do this.

This isn't a one-off art piece by a painter. They are a business. They produce a product. Their "artistic vision" doesn't mean a fucking thing if they have angry customers.

Illira · **03-14-2014, 12:05 AM**

Aer, you may want to dial it back a notch. A heated debate is one thing, but I don't think that directed profanities are called for here. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion and Seriphyn has been pretty respectful.

Naunet · **03-14-2014, 01:06 AM**

(03-13-2014, 10:53 PM)Edgar Wrote: If you guys really want to make the difference you say you want to, you'd best start by taking your issues to the right place.

I do. Frequently. There also just happens to be a thread on the RPC about this, so I thought, "Public forum! I'll join in." I mean, the thread exists. Why call out people for participating in it?

Pretty much the only use I'm going to get out of this system is a means to maintain my character's pantslessness (go go WHM "pants"), which is highly entertaining for sure. But... it seems like such a waste of a system. In Rift, I have 5, 6, 7 different outfits constructed for all my characters, many with combinations of cloth, leather, and plate gear - because Trion knows what's up in the vanity department. In TERA, I could have rp alts without the pressure and boringness (yes, that is a word) of being forced to level them just to dress them properly.

And while we're on the topic of customization, in Rift and GW2, I could dye multiple parts of my armor.... >_>;; Â Â <_<;;;

Ildur · **03-14-2014, 01:12 AM**

(03-13-2014, 10:53 PM)Edgar Wrote: I think you put it the best way, one that I can truly agree with. Still, I must point out that for all your complaining, it's not in the right place. This is not the official forum for XIV ARR, and I seriously doubt Yoshi-P checks this place for opinions.

If you guys really want to make the difference you say you want to, you'd best start by taking your issues to the right place.

That brings the question of how do you know they aren't complaining there, too? Tongue

I would agree with this if this was a forum about bakery. Then our complains about ARR wouldn't be relevant. But this is a forum dedicated to a very particular game and with a focus on roleplaying. The vanity system is something that affects roleplayers a lot (because it affects how our characters will look during IC interactions), so I don't see how it can be misplaced, unless you think the forums should be a place of pure love for the game (or at least neutral non-complaining statements). Which kind of defeats the purpose of a forum, if you ask me. Specially considering how crappy Squee's moderators are at their work.

Olofantur · **03-14-2014, 01:12 AM**

Hey everyone,

just wanted to give a heads up that i'm going to ask for this thread to be scrubbed, if you'd like to continue bickering instead of engaging in a constructive discussion about the pros and cons of the system please do it elsewhere.

Ildur · **03-14-2014, 01:15 AM**

Pros: No more levelling up as a clown!

Cons: Everything else.

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