RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Khadan · **02-22-2015, 10:27 PM**

Discussion on an open forum is how things get done without visiting grievous bodily harm on others in order to force your world view on them. Without civil discourse you resort to barbarity. Or in this day and age, passive-aggressive caltrop laying while thumbing your nose at people and then talking crap to your friends in private. =P

The point is that 'debate' or just polite conversation where two people are discussing $thing is productive. Always. Even if someone doesn't like what they are talking about or finds the topic 'uncomfortable'. If the individual finds said topic uncomfortable then it is the responsibility of the individual to remove themselves from the discussion and return later; not expect other people to revolve around their arbitrary feelings. That is not the way things work and it is likely not ever the way things will work as long as common sense prevails.Â

Being made 'uncomfortable' by someone's conversation, to me, is just a way to try and shut down discourse and control a narrative by preventing it from happening. It's just a really crappy way to behave when others are having a discussion. Now if it's just two jerks beefin'? Then yeah tell them to stfu and go to their corner. Otherwise act as civil as they are and either enjoy the debate, participate, or bow out.

Aaron · **02-22-2015, 10:31 PM**

To be fair. . . In the defense of whoever was debating in game.Â

Most debates aren't pre planned, they sorta just happen when someone voices disagreement with a statement made. So one can understand why there's always a LS debate or something and it doesn't happen in tells or forums. Because most of the time the people debating are caught in the moment whether it's civil or not.

So in defense, I don't understand why most people get so uptight about it like they've never been in the same situation whether in game or not.

Just my two cents.

Verranicus · **02-22-2015, 11:20 PM**

(02-22-2015, 10:08 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: You would not want certain topics to be discussed around your kid, for instance. It is well within the parent's right to ask the debaters to take their conversation elsewhere. Would you tell the kid to grow up and get a thicker skin? He'll learn it eventually. Or would you respect that parent's wishes? You have absolutely no reason not to, other than to demonstrate being a dick right? The same could be said to any public LS discussion. You do not know who is on the other side of that computer and what tolerances or triggers they may have.

Parents should be keeping their children away from people who talk about things they're not comfortable with their kids hearing. You don't bring your child into a bar and tell everyone there not to cuss in front of your precious baby.

Just like you don't join a linkshell/FC/forum and tell people not to discuss things that might make you uncomfortable when it's in your power to mute them or leave.

Kage · **02-22-2015, 11:24 PM**

If a linkshell/FC leader/ SOMEONE tells you it's time to drop it, you drop it. If you don't like that, you leave. Most people don't want what is seen as disruptive chatter in the linkshells they frequent but sometimes do not want to speak up. If a temporary blacklist is needed for any reason, you can be rest assured that it is a permanent blacklist.

Gaspard · **02-22-2015, 11:30 PM**

Very subjective examples. The Mother and Kids could be at a simple store with people discussing something of unsavvory nature, or in public transportation.Â

Linkshell/FC/Forums have therefore Rules in them. The easiest, almost mind-numbing way to solve such issues is to create steadfast rules and enforce them. May that be in your Linkshell, FC, or Forums. Just add a 'Discussing lore is A-okay and will not be reprimanded' to the LS/FC/Forum rules and you have your results. That way, you can check the LS/FC/Forum, agree to the rules PRIOR to joining, and therein understand that, no matter your personal opinion, you saw the rules, you're therefore oblidged to adhere to them as long as you wish to stay part of the LS/FC/Forum.

If either of these do not provide such rules the resulting ambiguity is the perfect breeding pit for scenarios like these.

Tiergan · **02-22-2015, 11:36 PM**

(02-22-2015, 10:14 PM)Faye Wrote: People shouldn't have to censor themselves from having a tame discussion about something relevant and important to the game itself. The topic does indeed matter.

While I agree with Sounsyy that making folks feel uncomfortable and just sort of continuing on with making people uncomfortable is kind of a shit move. I also agree with Faye that if people are having a civil discussion about something relevant and important to the game, it's kind of strange to force them to censor themselves from talking about it in the game itself. It's VERY easy to divert your attentions elsewhere for a short period of time - and as long as everyone involved is keeping it as a respectful debate and not a snipefest, what could it really harm?

Kage · **02-22-2015, 11:44 PM**

I find it hard to believe that anyone in this current community would be uncomfortable or be upset by any discussion or debate that is simply over lore/RP. Any time it starts to get heated is the time I've seen people start to put their theoretical foot down and it's because it brings what is normally a bright chat channel into one where the mood is more muted, somber. Something usually triggers it into a downward spiral "so and so is doing it!"/ "why am i being the target of criticism" etc.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-22-2015, 11:52 PM**

(02-22-2015, 11:44 PM)Kage Wrote: I find it hard to believe that anyone in this current community would be uncomfortable or be upset by any discussion or debate that is simply over lore/RP. Any time it starts to get heated is the time I've seen people start to put their theoretical foot down and it's because it brings what is normally a bright chat channel into one where the mood is more muted, somber. Something usually triggers it into a downward spiral "so and so is doing it!"/ "why am i being the target of criticism" etc.

You would be surprised then. In some of the linkshells I've been in (and threads here), there is plenty of evidence that people can get upset by lore/RP topics. Everyone's different, and they certainly have different levels of tolerance, but disagreements should be expected. It's just the nature of any community.

Edvyn · **02-23-2015, 01:00 AM**

believe it or not, the most outright offensive thing you can say to a disgruntled rper is "your opinion is wrong". more people i have encountered have burst into condescending, melodramatic bitchfits over being told they don't know what they say they know than they have over any personal attack or slur. internet people are very, very insecure in their own intellect and react incredibly poorly whenever it is challenged or questioned. Cool

Val · **02-23-2015, 01:10 AM**

(02-23-2015, 01:00 AM)Edvyn Wrote: believe it or not, the most outright offensive thing you can say to a disgruntled rper is "your opinion is wrong". more people i have encountered have burst into condescending, melodramatic bitchfits over being told they don't know what they say they know than they have over any personal attack or slur. internet people are very, very insecure in their own intellect and react incredibly poorly whenever it is challenged or questioned.

..Pretty much this. The sad truth is that in a lot of RP circles, telling someone that their opinion is wrong will cause more fights than it'll solve, and I've seen too few people be able to actually have a debate without eventually making an argument out of it.

I can agree that debates are NOT arguments. Except when they eventually become one due to one person getting offended by the other.

Aldotsk · **02-23-2015, 01:14 AM**

While debating is okay, but when it comes down to the discussion of "You should be RPing like this" is just considered rude. There is no -right- way of roleplaying since we aren't really 100% synchronized to our own PC living in that side of lore or that world. Even the so-called pro-Roleplayers get a lot wrong and they try to correct others when they aren't really right and they aren't perfect. Why? because they feel that they are veterans and know more than the new players or new people who are getting into lores. Even rookie roleplayers can do a better job than pro-roleplayers, Â honestly.Â

Debating can turn into an argument - depending on how strong their opinions are. If the debate is not resolved, then people will start pointing guns at each other because they can't agree or respect each other's opinions.

Roleplayers or Non-Roleplayers - This logic is a human logic than a roleplayer logic. Political debate has never been resolved, neither did religious debate.

Edit: Also, no one should slam down on someone's roleplaying style just because you don't like it. It's either you find other people to roleplay with that you feel comfortable with, or just quit Roleplaying for your own good. Easy as done.

Edvyn · **02-23-2015, 01:30 AM**

(02-23-2015, 01:14 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Roleplayers or Non-Roleplayers - This logic is a human logic than a roleplayer logic. Political debate has never been resolved, neither did religious debate.

Edit: Also, no one should slam down on someone's roleplaying style just because you don't like it. It's either you find other people to roleplay with that you feel comfortable with, or just quit Â Roleplaying for your own good. Easy as done.

not all humans act the same way. the fact that a group of people engaged in the same activity are likely to behave in a particular predictable way shouldn't surprise anyone. the whole "politics and religion" taboo only really applies when the people involved are emotionally invested in it. interestingly enough, the people who get too emotional over their religious and/or political views also tend to know the least about politics/religion.

nobody dislikes something for the sake of disliking something. if someone is "slamming down" on someone's "roleplaying style", they'll have a reason. you might not agree with their reason, but there will be one and usually they make the reason quite clear. it's very attractive and very convenient to write off anyone who criticizes you as "haters" who simply hate things, but it's not even remotely close to how people actually work. Cool

Aldotsk · **02-23-2015, 01:33 AM**

(02-23-2015, 01:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:
(02-23-2015, 01:14 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Roleplayers or Non-Roleplayers - This logic is a human logic than a roleplayer logic. Political debate has never been resolved, neither did religious debate.

Edit: Also, no one should slam down on someone's roleplaying style just because you don't like it. It's either you find other people to roleplay with that you feel comfortable with, or just quit Â Roleplaying for your own good. Easy as done.
nobody dislikes something for the sake of disliking something. if someone is "slamming down" on someone's "roleplaying style", they'll have a reason. you might not agree with their reason, but there will be one and usually they make the reason quite clear. it's very attractive and very convenient to write off anyone who criticizes you as "haters" who simply hate things, but it's not even remotely close to how people actually work.

Majority of the reason is really for their own pleasure than other's pleasure. They just want it for themselves to enjoy their own roleplay than what other people think. That's why sometimes we people can be pretty cruel in matters, and we can't really seem to please everyone else since we look after ourselves first before anything.

Edvyn · **02-23-2015, 01:38 AM**

(02-23-2015, 01:33 AM)Aldotsk Wrote:
(02-23-2015, 01:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:
(02-23-2015, 01:14 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Roleplayers or Non-Roleplayers - This logic is a human logic than a roleplayer logic. Political debate has never been resolved, neither did religious debate.

Edit: Also, no one should slam down on someone's roleplaying style just because you don't like it. It's either you find other people to roleplay with that you feel comfortable with, or just quit Â Roleplaying for your own good. Easy as done.
nobody dislikes something for the sake of disliking something. if someone is "slamming down" on someone's "roleplaying style", they'll have a reason. you might not agree with their reason, but there will be one and usually they make the reason quite clear. it's very attractive and very convenient to write off anyone who criticizes you as "haters" who simply hate things, but it's not even remotely close to how people actually work.

Majority of the reason is really for their own pleasure than other's pleasure. They just want it for themselves to enjoy their own roleplay than what other people think. That's why sometimes we people can be pretty cruel in matters, and we can't really seem to please everyone else since we look after ourselves first before anything.

im not entirely sure what you're implying here - should I uh, not roleplay for my own enjoyment? is there a roleplay charity i can donate to so i can be a truly selfless rper who looks out for everyone else and forgoes my own pretendy fun times to ensure that other people's pretendy fun times are the most pretendy and the most fun? is it really selfish to do something fun for my own fun?

g0ne · **02-23-2015, 01:39 AM**

Technically, arguments are not even supposed to be a negative thing. They are the use of proper reasoning, examples and logic etc. to convince the other person of your viewpoint so when we associate to argument as a negative thing, it's actually not.Â

That said, it's fine to debate or argue or whatever and all, but I personally don't. I tend to avoid them. Why? Because everyone has their own opinions and stuff, and I respect everyone and their views and opinions. If someone says, oh, I like X, I say, oh, that's good. No need for me to say I don't like X because of reason 1, 2 and 3.Â

Plus, sometimes, even if you don't want to, you turn negative or aggressive, unwillingly and unknowingly. And even if you're cool and calm, the other person might not perceive you as such, because well, it's a debate/argument, and lets admit it, even though it's not supposed to be a negative thing, that's how most view it.Â

Also, respect other people. If they feel uncomfortable, you've got plenty more means to continue your discussion elsewhere, even if your discussion is completely calm and poised.Â

There you have it. My two gil.

Poll: Read the following, and choose an option You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Answer 1	17.50%	7	17.50%
Answer 2	37.50%	15	37.50%
A compromise between the two	45.00%	18	45.00%
Total		40 vote(s)	100%

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Debates are not arguments

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes