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V'aleera · **07-06-2015, 07:37 PM**

There is a difference between not respecting their creation as a whole entity and not respecting one of their lingering mistakes.

If one were to order a steak at a nice restaurant and a small sliver of meat on the edge was overly singed, no disrespect is being done to the chef by cutting that bit off and setting it to the side.

Responding more directly to the topic at hand: do keep in mind that the many, many people are willing to overlook liberties taken with lore if these liberties are A) appropriately moderate in scale and B) done so in a way that is engaging and entertaining.

mongi291 · **07-06-2015, 07:59 PM**

Ok, let's try to make a constructive post now.

No matter what you do, there will ALWAYS be someone that is against it.
You CAN be a White Mage: you just need to find a decent, not lore-breaking explanation. Someone has already done that.
Heck, I guess that with a bit of creativity, someone could even play a Padjal without actually breaking the lore: just don't expect everyone to be ok with it.

Kellach Woods · **07-06-2015, 08:13 PM**

Honestly I was banking on the 51-60 to open up new avenues, like they seem to be doing for every other job, but... apparently not?

Gone. · **07-06-2015, 08:28 PM**

(07-06-2015, 07:27 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(07-06-2015, 06:42 PM)Edgar Wrote: My policy with this has always been the same:
"Fuck em."

And then you [see: not you personally] wonder why people stop talking to you. Seriously. NOT this. The attitude of "I do what I want" is one of the most selfish and off-putting ones in any role-play community. If you're not going to respect Square Enix's creation then don't expect any in return.

He has a point, though; the type of person Edgar refers to is never going to give an IC white mage the legitimate chance they deserve. Why waste one's time attempting to appease the unappeasable? It's an exercise in futility.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-06-2015, 08:35 PM**

(07-06-2015, 08:28 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(07-06-2015, 07:27 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(07-06-2015, 06:42 PM)Edgar Wrote: My policy with this has always been the same:
"Fuck em."

And then you [see: not you personally] wonder why people stop talking to you. Seriously. NOT this. The attitude of "I do what I want" is one of the most selfish and off-putting ones in any role-play community. If you're not going to respect Square Enix's creation then don't expect any in return.

He has a point, though; the type of person Edgar refers to is never going to give an IC white mage the legitimate chance they deserve. Why waste one's time attempting to appease the unappeasable? It's an exercise in futility.

As this thread shows, most people are ok with various interpretations of the WHM job, so long as it is down while not blatantly contradicting any lore.

Maybe that specific person can never be appeased, but I think there are more constructive paths to take then "Fuck you I do what I want." And again, as this thread shows, you have lots of options for non lore breaking white magic.

I mean the same argument could be made of anything lore breaking. Rather than get defensive from pushback, try to learn something from it, and figure out how to RP whatever it is you want within the lore.

Edgar · **07-06-2015, 08:44 PM**

If my post is going to cause further havoc I would like to motion that it be removed? It could have been worded better; looking at it objectively, the decision to speak bluntly was not a good one.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-06-2015, 08:51 PM**

(07-06-2015, 08:44 PM)Edgar Wrote: If my post is going to cause further havoc I would like to motion that it be removed? It could have been worded better; looking at it objectively, the decision to speak bluntly was not a good one.

I don't think it's causing Havoc Edgar, just discussion.

Warren Castille · **07-06-2015, 09:26 PM**

It's possible to be confident without being close-minded. Everyone's overlooking the meta, I think, that also exists in a pretty secure grey bubble: If someone claims to be a white mage, not everyone ICly is going to have the knowledge of what that job entails. I don't imagine very many folks can stand up and shout THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, YOU CAN'T BE ONE BECAUSE THE ELEMENTALS FORBID IT! Does anyone casually know the inner workings of Padjal society? What they really are? What they can do?

If someone says they're a White Mage and they're out of place (read: not protecting the Shroud) it's reasonable to express doubt. If they then show they can channel succor, it's also reasonable to express surprise. Something I've always said is that the average person isn't going to know what succor feels like anyway: If we buy into the "your aether is personal and different depending on the user" fluff then no two healers would "feel" the same anyway.

I'm rambling a bit because sleepy Warren is sleepy, but it comes down to plausibility. Running around Limsa Holy-bombing things is much less believable than, say, a healer going on a pilgrimage to study the extent of the Calamity. Write what you want, but try to be respectful. If it flows, people will respond positively to it.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-06-2015, 10:02 PM**

I agree Warren.

I ran into a lot of similar issues, and a lot of OOC rage because I played a Sultansworn that went out on missions and acted sort of like law enforcement. Aka I didn't just stand upstairs in the royal area.

There were lots of people that raged, but just as many that helped me figure out a way to play it within the lore, and to know what that lore was.

I think it's important to understand people's hesitancy if you're RPing a character that is questionable lore wise, but as Warren says, if you do your homework and play it well, people will come around.

LiadansWhisper · **07-06-2015, 11:06 PM**

(07-06-2015, 08:13 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Honestly I was banking on the 51-60 to open up new avenues, like they seem to be doing for every other job, but... apparently not?

Nope. Â Sadly, it did nothing of the sort. Â Quite honestly, the writing was rather blah and I was pretty disappointed by the story in general (although it did provide some nice lore tidbits along the way).

(07-06-2015, 09:26 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's possible to be confident without being close-minded. Everyone's overlooking the meta, I think, that also exists in a pretty secure grey bubble: If someone claims to be a white mage, not everyone ICly is going to have the knowledge of what that job entails. I don't imagine very many folks can stand up and shout THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, YOU CAN'T BE ONE BECAUSE THE ELEMENTALS FORBID IT! Does anyone casually know the inner workings of Padjal society? What they really are? What they can do?

If someone says they're a White Mage and they're out of place (read: not protecting the Shroud) it's reasonable to express doubt. If they then show they can channel succor, it's also reasonable to express surprise. Something I've always said is that the average person isn't going to know what succor feels like anyway: If we buy into the "your aether is personal and different depending on the user" fluff then no two healers would "feel" the same anyway.

I'm rambling a bit because sleepy Warren is sleepy, but it comes down to plausibility. Running around Limsa Holy-bombing things is much less believable than, say, a healer going on a pilgrimage to study the extent of the Calamity. Write what you want, but try to be respectful. If it flows, people will respond positively to it.

Well, bear in mind that it is forbidden magic, so some people might even have a really hostile reaction.

My personal opinion is that a White Mage would not be doing anything to advertise the fact that they are a White Mage.

Flickering Ember · **07-06-2015, 11:36 PM**

(07-06-2015, 07:35 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-06-2015, 07:27 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(07-06-2015, 06:42 PM)Edgar Wrote: My policy with this has always been the same:
"Fuck em."

And then you [see: not you personally] wonder why people stop talking to you. Â Seriously. Â NOT this. Â The attitude of "I do what I want" is one of the most selfish and off-putting ones in any role-play community. Â If you're not going to respect Square Enix's creation then don't expect any in return.

There is a line between doing what you like, and also understanding what will be palatable in the community at large.

Part of being a good community member, in my opinion, is to keep the viewpoints of others in mind, just like real life. That's how collaborative experiences work, "Fuck you I do what I want." Is not a good basis for collaboration, it's only a good basis for self absorption.

If you truly wish to just not give a fuck about what other's think, then things like forum RP or writing stories are good for that. IMO RP is all about collaboration, which requires give and take.

Balance, imo, is key.

Don't blindly conform, especially if it would make you unhappy. Do what makes you happy but at the same time be a generous RPer who gives back to the community and maintains interest in others. It's not all about you but at the same time we're really only in charge of ourselves.

Does that make any sense?

shotgunbadger · **07-06-2015, 11:56 PM**

(07-06-2015, 09:26 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's possible to be confident without being close-minded. Everyone's overlooking the meta, I think, that also exists in a pretty secure grey bubble: If someone claims to be a white mage, not everyone ICly is going to have the knowledge of what that job entails. I don't imagine very many folks can stand up and shout THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, YOU CAN'T BE ONE BECAUSE THE ELEMENTALS FORBID IT! Does anyone casually know the inner workings of Padjal society? What they really are? What they can do?

If someone says they're a White Mage and they're out of place (read: not protecting the Shroud) it's reasonable to express doubt. If they then show they can channel succor, it's also reasonable to express surprise. Something I've always said is that the average person isn't going to know what succor feels like anyway: If we buy into the "your aether is personal and different depending on the user" fluff then no two healers would "feel" the same anyway.

I'm rambling a bit because sleepy Warren is sleepy, but it comes down to plausibility. Running around Limsa Holy-bombing things is much less believable than, say, a healer going on a pilgrimage to study the extent of the Calamity. Write what you want, but try to be respectful. If it flows, people will respond positively to it.

Gotta agree with this post here. If you were to come to my characters claiming to be a White Magie without being a special forest snowflake creature they'd go 'haha what are you tugging my chain' but then if you actually showed some level of advanced healing magic that, reasonably, only a proper White Mage could do they'd go 'oh shit what, how' rather than me going right to WHAT NO FUCK THIS I OUT.

Now if you then went on to say you're actually an elemental in human form who has lived since the first Astral age somehow who's personally killed every Primal, yea that's when I go 'uh, bye' but if your answer is 'yea dude I went on a really intense spirit quest and it took so much study and training and risk for myself but eventually I was able to tap into that shit with guidance', yea cool, we can work something out there.

People deserve a chance, they don't need unconditional agreement, but they deserve at least a chance to put their stuff out there and let you decide from there. A White Mage in character would need a pretty big story why that happened, but inherently I wouldn't write them off.

Cato · **07-07-2015, 12:43 AM**

I'm rather fond of the lore that FFXIV has given us to work with. In my opinion it's a lot more in-depth and interesting than what certain other MMO's are offering at the moment. So, ideally, I prefer it when people work with what we have rather than what we don't have.

If something can be passed off as plausible - even if it bends the lore from time to time - then I have no issue with it. I do, however, have a major issue with the 'I do what I want' mentality that is, unfortunately, quite prevalent within MMO role-playing communities.

I also don't believe that someone should be made to feel ashamed for wanting to adhere to the lore closely. Especially if they're rather fond of the intriguing world FFXIV brings to life.

Sounsyy · **07-07-2015, 12:49 AM**

Taking a different stance than I usually take on this sort of subject, I'll just say this:

For a magic that's been buried in a tree and forgotten for 1,600 years and the knowledge of its continued existence has only been entrusted to about six very isolated families who live their entire lifetime out in the deep Woods... a lot of people in Eorzea sure do seem to know a lot about white magic's forbidden-ness ICly. Hmm...

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-07-2015, 12:55 AM**

(07-07-2015, 12:49 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Taking a different stance than I usually take on this sort of subject, I'll just say this:

For a magic that's been buried in a tree and forgotten for 1,600 years and the knowledge of its continued existence has only been entrusted to about six very isolated families who live their entire lifetime out in the deep Woods... a lot of people in Eorzea sure do seem to know a lot about white magic's forbidden-ness ICly. Hmm...

I thought it was common knowledge that it almost destroyed the world.

Is that not true?

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RP issue with White Mage

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