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That Guy · **09-08-2015, 06:57 PM**

This is a discussion my friends and I have often. Because I'm still avoiding productivity, I figured I'd try bringing it here.

How hard is it for rpers to rp 'bad guys?' I see a lot of Robin Hoods but very, very few 'true' criminal characters. At first I couldn't figure out why until a friend tried rping one.

People do NOT like their characters being tricked. I didn't realize how much till a friend of my tried rping a 'villain' character. Even though Icly no one had any reason to be wary of him, oocly they saw that he was a criminal via his character tag.

You could see the change in their rp when it was noticed. Suddenly the character would become wary of my friend, even though they had no reason to be so. Even the most naive PC's would get a 'dark vibe' from him and instantly be on alert. Occasionally he'd even get harassed by bounty hunter rpers even though he specifically put down that his bounty was based off a false aliases and to please whisper him for more information. It was ridiculous and he eventually quit the character because no one was able to separate ooc knowledge from ic.

So I guess my question is, what do you do? I am really interested in playing a darker character but now I'm terrified because I don't want every hero in Eorzea treating them like some spam-able mob that's just there for their 'good-guy' to kick around. I don't mind them loosing every now and then. No one is so awesome they win forever. However I also don't want my character to be pariah because people can't keep OOC knowledge out of IC.

Did my friend just have bad luck? Are their guilds out there designed specifically for this? Or will I just have to be careful about who I let know about my character's more darker aspects?

Ciel · **09-08-2015, 07:11 PM**

Playing a bad guy is a crap shoot.Â First and foremost, if you run into people who can't separate OOC and IC, that's their problem, not yours.Â And it shouldn't have been your friend's, for that matter.

I have a villain alt, but I've never had a huge problem with the situation above.Â If it seems like someone is being meta when they'd have no idea what the character is about just from seeing surface behavior, I would avoid future encounters with them.Â It may also help with having some kind of disclaimer on said character's wiki page, if you intend to create one.Â It's hard to know how many people actually look at them for reference.

Playing a "bad guy" is also very subjective.Â What kind of bad guy are we talking about?Â A mastermind of some kind?Â Black marketeer? Slave trader?Â Underling? Hitman? Garlean soldier? Just a bully?Â Or some guy who goes around being a jerk just for the sake of it?Â This, too, can make a difference.

Aside from the above, probably the best piece of advice I can offer is not to openly advertise that the character is a villain.Â If you're surrounded by RPers, the first thing they're going to look at is your search comment.Â Advertising that the character is a villain means you might as well write it on their forehead.Â It might attract attention you don't want, and might deter potential quality RP.Â Have a public face for the character, and keep the truth to quieter circles depending on what you're trying to accomplish with it.

Calada · **09-08-2015, 07:14 PM**

Don't tell anybody your character is a criminal OOCly because whether they do it consciously or not, they know what kind of a character to expect from you. If you do that, their character's "intuition" can't kick in because usually a player's intuition isn't as good as their character's. It also kind of goes without saying that if you don't want people to know that your character's a criminal then you shouldn't write it in the search bubble that everybody looks at when they first see your character.

Warren Castille · **09-08-2015, 07:14 PM**

Playing a villain makes for an interesting duality. If you're a subtle villain, and you keep everything close to the vest, you can manipulate your way for a long time without drawing any real ire for it. However, as soon as you give The Speech and you unmask so to speak, you have a lot of sacrifices on the table.

First, you lose access to RP hubs. You can't go out in public as a famous criminal, because you're going to constantly be assaulted by hero types. Second, you lose access to events, because the same reasons. Third, you're only really able to RP when showing up to do villain stuff.

It's also up for debate whether the villain has to lose in the end, but most people are going to expect you to. Playing a criminal mastermind only works when no one knows you're doing it, which might as well mean you're not doing it at all for all it impacts the RP.

Villain roleplay: Challenging, often unrewarding, mostly stressful, but when pulled off well, it's magical.

Note: Referring to villain PCs. Villain NPCs have a much easier time, mostly because they have no trouble existing off-screen.

ZacharyVolfire · **09-08-2015, 07:30 PM**

Play the smiling Demon. Sociall accepting and happy go lucky but the instant a moral choice pops up "RENEGADE FOR LIFE" . Although yeah no one wants to work with a known villain. That's why I suggest for people to play villain characters. Make ones like Hazama from Blazblue. Until everyone figured out his true identity he fit right end and STILL did his evil villain thing.

Sophia_Grave · **09-08-2015, 07:42 PM**

Because of the nature of RP, I firmly believe that playing the villain is a waste of time without a group of friends willing to humor your plot and who trust you enough not to do anything they're uncomfortable with.

Ignore metagaming, OC/IC bleed. Even then, people still have the ultimate say on what happens to their characters, and the simple fact is, many are uncomfortable with not being a badass at all times. No one wants to be tricked, beaten, or hurt in any significant way, and an insignificant villain is no villain at all.

Is it possible? Yes. Like Warren said, its absolutely beautiful when it does. But really, its always going to be a difficult dance, and you're constantly at the mercy of your OOC peers while simultaneously tasked with engaging them. My main, while not strictly a stache-twirling villain, is almost always tasked against most of my most constant RP friends. Sometimes, I'm unable to actually do much of anything, because the situation isn't quite right, or its too disruptive at the moment, or something along those lines. I have fun with it, but its absolutely maddening sometimes.

X'raemha Rhiki · **09-08-2015, 08:20 PM**

I am pretty sure all dark / evil / criminal characters have that aura like DRKs so we know who not to invite to the birthday party.Â

Sarcasm aside, I've watched someone close to me try to play a villain and then get driven not only out of RP, but FFXIV in general because people treated him OOC like he was the butthole villain he was IC. Made me sad. I think it would be difficult to pull off at large because people like their characters being bad-asses that never get hurt or tricked or wronged, especially by other PCs.Â

I personally like the "RENEGADE FOR LIFE" option, but I'm much more fond of playing characters that skirt neutrality as opposed to taking up a side.

***Maril*** · **09-08-2015, 09:42 PM**

I have a past RPing as a villainous character for a main, in a different game mind, some years back - My biggest problem that I faced back then was that people would not respect that this character was your main, and not just something to be killed off in a random little plot and not to be killed off by every knight in shining armor they met. I'd get accused of being OP quite a bit because of this. I should mention I generally speaking am pro-letting characters die if they REALLY can't get out of their pickle - my only reservation these days is for Nailah, due to her position as an FC leader.Â
The character did meet her end - but after 1Â½ years, I had gradually and carefully planned out a sliding scale for her where she would, as many others in that universe, be grabbed and dragged deeper into the insanity her magics brought on - This having her make more mistakes, even big ones, and eventually that lead to her demise. In her demise was some of the people who had been chasing her all this time, and one of the mains on the good side also died during it. Something I look back to as a good memory, but honestly I could have gone without the accusations and demands that I readily let my main character kill. Obviously, times have changed and this could be not so much of a problem here, but I wouldn't rule it out as something couldn't happen here. I suppose to some people good /always/ wins over evil.Â

These days, I tend to keep my evil to my alts, and even then they are highly disposable npc's simply meant for one plot arch, rather than as a persistent character. If I were you, I'd start the character off among people that you know well oocly, where you can be certain of good communication. To the rest of the ooc world, I'd be cautious about revealing the true nature of the character - and to that end, it might also be more exiting for them to get to find out what makes your villain tick through IC interaction.

xypher · **09-08-2015, 10:18 PM**

Kinda sucks that villains aren't more actively "accepted" so to say. I really wanted to RP this insane antagonist type, but the overwhelming stigma around the role is suffocating. I guess if you're brave and willing to take the fact that you'll have to hang your villain shoes up quicker than the hero's shoes, it's doable.

That said, I still want to be a villain type. Too many heroes, not enough IC arseholes.

Aaron · **09-08-2015, 10:45 PM**

What sucks is social media portrays villians as always having to lose or be hated, and further is the mindset people get in rp of "If I beat this villians IC it's first immortality, then the bitches!" Rather than "Hey! This guys a villian. In a realistic scenario disregarding you can't kill my character without my consent plot armor, this villians could actually embarrass my character, Â ruin his life or even kill him! Isn't that neat!? 8D I better be careful! "

But no. From what I've seen it's generally

Villian - Im evil

Everybody else - -fights over who gets to beat the villians for glory and IC fame."

/proceeds to watch an hour of NO YOU CAN'T KILL ME YOU'RE GODMODDING you're a terrible rper and you get no play > : (

It's one reason why public villians in a rp community never last and are always restricted to special events where even then they're scripted to lose.

I just roll a anti hero or a straight up jackass instead. Saves a lot of trouble.

Just my ranting two cents. Pay the tone no mind.

Faye · **09-08-2015, 10:46 PM**

(09-08-2015, 07:14 PM)Italweri Mitno Wrote: Don't tell anybody your character is a criminal OOCly because whether they do it consciously or not, they know what kind of a character to expect from you. If you do that, their character's "intuition" can't kick in because usually a player's intuition isn't as good as their character's. It also kind of goes without saying that if you don't want people to know that your character's a criminal then you shouldn't write it in the search bubble that everybody looks at when they first see your character.

This. Unfortunately, you'll have to keep in mind that a lot of people want to play the hero, and these people often believe the hero always wins. You'll find people who will attack your character in the name of "justice" with no ICly justifiable evidence or even knowledge of your character's crimes, and many of them will not accept defeat for the belief that the "good guy" should always win. Playing a villain is fun, but I highly recommend keeping it secret, not just for fear of metagaming, but for some more practical reasons.

What happens to villains in stories, or even real life? Typically, they lose. They get arrested or killed or exiled. People don't like them, and their crimes have consequences. The more foul things your character does, and the more open and well known they are, the closer your character gets to his logical end. If you play a villain, I advise either playing it subtly/carefully, or be open to killing your character off. For this reason, I usually only play villains as NPC's or alts. Playing a villain as your main is fun, theoretically--the reality of people always being after your character, your character having to avoid certain places/people, etc. or risk facing death/arrest is less fun.

Ashe · **09-08-2015, 11:19 PM**

Hmmmm, I play the villain to some extent on my main and I haven't run into problems. He's still...human (lawlz he's an elezen) if that makes sense? He's not the type of guy who is in your face MWAHAHAHAHAHA and will sometimes tease people for fun and hint at darker things but not be like "And now I'm going to kidnap you and eat your soul." ....he's not into that anyways.
A lot of his "villain-ness" is inner turmoil that he kind of exudes into his goals that others get involved in? I donno...RPing on Ashe has been a lot of fun. I've gotten to meet cool people, almost die, go on IC dungeon runs, get double crossed. And it's all been super fun.
I guess....if people don't take you personally and can separate IC and OOC...then all's good >> I just tend to RP with random people who I can trust be mature about things >> If there are things my character can do that'll be important to a situation, I'll let someone know OOCly. If something is confusing or someone asks a question to clarify, I'll politely answer.Â

I donno....just don't make a villain that's god-awful in your face and you're good haha.

S'imba · **09-09-2015, 05:52 PM**

I'll give a disclaimer by saying I really suck at playing bad guys but here a few of my thoughts.

If a person is going to play a villain they need to realize that they are going to either be defeated at some point or their character needs to evolve in some way. People are going to want to stand up against you because no one likes to have their character subject to torment. It goes both ways though since 'heroic' characters should give a villain character a few wins themselves.Â

The other thing is making people see your character as a villain. Simply saying "my character is a powerful villain so your character must be afraid of me and can't stand up to me because of how bad and evil my character is" means squat. They need something to back themselves up.

It also takes a lot of communication, because it tends to walk a fine line between antagonist and god modding. Yes a villain does need to be an obstacle to get have to get over but it also means there needs to be a way to overcome them. It becomes doubly important to show the weaknesses because in all honesty spending months trying to figure out that one thing the good guys need to do to figure out how to beat a villain is exhausting and gets dull really fast. As well as trying to control the exact circumstances of how to beat a villain. It locks other peoples ideas and characters out of rp because there's nothing their character can actually contribute because it doesn't fit in with how the player thinks their character needs to overcome, even if it's an extremely well thought out idea.Â

Finally I don't think declaring a character is good or evil openly ooc is a good idea. The only thing is ever does is try to force others how to perceive a character. Just like real life a character should be judged by their actions. You can't say a character is a good guy and then have them go act like a jack ass to people, then still expect them to be seen as such just because their player has them tagged as a good guy. If you have to tell people that your character is one or the other to get someone to perceive them as such then chances are they aren't how the player sees them and it will only end in ooc drama trying to force people to react to their character how they think they should.

Ashe · **09-09-2015, 05:58 PM**

YES THE EVOLVING THING IS IMPORTANT! Â Like for reals. Ashe's anger and grudges have evolved to keep up RP contacts and not get...old? He couldn't be an angry grump forever...you gotta have your character grow. If you don't change it up a bit people will get bored of you...fast. I know this from experience...it was hard starting out on Ashe because he's such a difficult personality but I have him so he can make positive connections with time and has felt "loss" and regret. Remember, as a villain, your character should be the hero of his/her own cause.

C'kayah Polaali · **09-09-2015, 06:16 PM**

What I did early on with C'kayah is basically to say "Hi, heroes! You all need foils for your characters! I want to play a villain! I'm willing to play a bad guy role in your arcs, just contact me!"

It took a while to get going, but I ended up with all the RP I could eat.

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Playing the badguy

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes