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Ildur · **08-10-2013, 10:08 AM**

I've been RPing in TERA for like a year now, and all the griefers I have run into lost interest and left after a minute of me not acknowledging them. Even after it went F2P. I do not think your solutions to trolling in chapter 3 will do anything more than disrupt the roleplay.

I'm not disagreeing with what is told on the other chapters, mind. I particularly agree with 'don't roleplay in an instance/party unless everyone agrees to'.
It's just with the solutions with trolling that I have problems with.

Yeldir Melfusor · **08-10-2013, 12:20 PM**

Indeed? I have done my best to design my strategy based on personal experience, and what attitudes myself and my peers found the least exciting to antagonize. I can say with total sincerity that myself - and the kind of people I did this with - took the silent treatment as a challenge to find novel ways of intrusion and disruption.

I'm hesitant to reveal more details about this, as it might paint me as a character who doesn't belong in any roleplay community.

Your problems with my method(s), I've noticed, all seem to stem from the belief that simply ignoring these characters causes them to go away. Perhaps our experiences have led us to believe differently, because we have seen different results to the same strategy.

If my countermeasures prove unnecessary, my reaction would be one of both relief and unmixed pleasure. I hope you're correct in your assessment, actually! It is so much simpler when they just go away.

Gideon Aryeh · **08-10-2013, 12:29 PM**

(08-10-2013, 04:34 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: Those of you who express distaste for, or don't think the problem will be serious enough to require these kinds of measures, you have chosen the right server for you. Â I don't think Balmung will see a whole lot of trouble.

I'm quite certain that Gilgamesh will, which is why I wrote this with Gilgamesh in mind. Â And I stand by every single one of my statements as both tactful and necessary in the coming environment. Â If you don't believe that, that's all right. Â You don't need to, if you won't be playing primarily on Gilgamesh.

If you will be playing on Gilgamesh, and you don't like what you've read here, I implore you, give it a week, or a month, and then read this again. Â This document might suddenly make a great of sense, particularly after you've encountered the variety of troll that has hitherto been unwilling to play FF14. Â

There's a certain psychological profile - selfish, vain, impatient, mostly - that couldn't stomach 1.0 longer than a week. Â This kind of person has been responsible for the perpetual souring of roleplay communities in certain other popular MMO's. Â These people are going to enjoy 2.0, and when they crash RP's, they are both organized and persistent in a way that, if you haven't been in TERA or WoW or the like lately, will shock you.

If you simply cannot believe this stormy forecast, you need to merely glance at the open beta thread in sig. Â That is the "lowest common denominator" of Gilgamesh, and if we do not immediately improve the perceptions those very people have of us, the Gilgamesh RP community will find itself adrift in foul waters.

Â ^This

+200 internets good sir

Isilme · **08-10-2013, 01:03 PM**

I think this is tremendously useful regardless of the server. Or game for that matter.

A lot of this would have been useful to me when I roleplayed back in FFXI on Sylph. We had our own flourishing troll community (Some of whom actually posted videos on youtube of some of their more relentless trolling of rpers). They tended to lack creativity (Most it was just elezens in subligars spamming whatever emote caused them to hip thrust) but it was frustrating. Very hard to rp a dramatic bedside medical scene (In party chat even) when just outside the door two male elezens are loudly having gay sex in /say and claiming they are roleplaying.

I DO think it's an important part of roleplaying to EARN your status by learning to play the game. Just like in D&D, you still gotta level up and earn that status as a badass. If you want to be a talented weaver, then put the effort into it. It's kind of what differentiates this from writing a story. I want to be one of the best Paladins around, and so I know I damn well better be able to back that up with in-game skills.

I had a friend that told me about her rp experience in WoW... or more importantly her ATTEMPTS at RP. She was a Paladin, and had worked hard to be as well geared and skilled as she could be in her role (She claimed she was probably the best geared Paladin healer on the server at the time). She was then actually shunned from the rp groups for being a 'raider', and being told having all her epic-tier gear on made her elitist and was 'unfair' to those wearing their level 30 stuff.

I think this is the attitude that people fear coming from us. I didn't see any of this in 1.0... In my experience rpls' tended to tackle the endgame content just as vigorously as the other linkshells. Most rpers I know tended to be rightfully proud of their in-game skills, gear, and accomplishments. I think if we continue this way, we will prove ourselves to the doubters.

... But I still am gonna work extra hard to find gear alternatives to Heavy Darklight. Ugh.

Desmond Aryll · **08-10-2013, 01:05 PM**

This was a very good read. Thanks for doing this Yeldir.Â

I agree that letting trolls know you aren't disturbed is the best way to react. Treat their remarks as you would any other player who isn't trying to offend you. At least for a time. We all know antagonismÂ has evolved into something quite "special" on the internet and the best course of action is to not be antagonized.

Henceforth, you will be known as Yeldir Goodall of the Trolls. Thumbsup

Ildur · **08-10-2013, 01:34 PM**

(08-10-2013, 12:20 PM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: Your problems with my method(s), I've noticed, all seem to stem from the belief that simply ignoring these characters causes them to go away. Perhaps our experiences have led us to believe differently, because we have seen different results to the same strategy.

That is true. Ignoring and blocking the trolls has always worked fine for me, so of course I do not fully see the necessity to make alternatives. I do understand that, if ignoring doesn't work, then alternatives must be brought up.
But another problem I have with the two methods (the third, reporting, is perfectly fine) is that they require the roleplayer to disrupt his own roleplay, either by dropping character or by moving to a new location.
The moving to a new location is actually something I could get behind in some circumstances, like being trolled constantly by a lot of different people (probably caused by roleplaying in a high-traffic area). So I guess I don't really have much of a problem with that one if the circumstances are right.
But then there's the first one, dropping out of character to acknowledge the trolling. I still think this will encourage the troll to linger longer than he would if you simply ignored him. This wouldn't be a problem, ussually, but acknowledging their trolling constantly until they decide to leave is going to strain and disrupt your current scene.

Of course, as you have said, our experiences kind of contradict each other. It's kind of hard to form a 'unified theory' when that happens.

I'shkandar Tia · **08-10-2013, 02:16 PM**

I just want to say that as someone who will be playing on Gilgamesh and roleplaying, this is incredibly insightful.

I've played every MMO out there and, yes, if you ignore the troll, they might go away. They might also start dancing naked and slinging spells. Depends on the troll.

But what I take away from this thread is not a "how to get trolls to leave" but rather "how to get trolls to not bother you in the first place." The whole first chapter about how we (as roleplayers) are perceived by the rest of the gaming community is dead-on. I've had plenty of non-roleplayer friends tell me the exact same.

So I'm a bit disheartened to see all the dismissive, "Ugh, just ignore them" replies here. That's not what this is. Gilgamesh is going to have issues. Roleplayers will be a minority. (Reddit, hello?) Instead we need to realize we need to change how roleplayers are seen in the first place. I'll gladly take the time to include/address the rude ones if it means they'll leave me the hell alone for the rest of my FFXIV career.

Honestly I wish I'd been given this advice a few years ago. Would have made several games a lot more pleasant to engage in.

Sorry for the wall of text. TL;DR: Thank you for your post and insight.

Yeldir Melfusor · **08-10-2013, 02:56 PM**

Ah, ha. You point out something quite true, Ildur. In the short term, the methods I have outlined are not at all effective in preventing disruption. They actually render one more easy to pull out of character, as most of my suggestions involve redirecting the one's attention in ways that are distinctly more time and energy-intensive than popping a few people on ignore and going about one's business.

I think I can give a little better context, here. The methods I drew up are not intended to protect one's immediate immersion, as an incident of trolling is occurring (with perhaps the exception of method #2). They are intended to create a lasting impression, and to change how trolls view roleplayers, perhaps quickly or perhaps over a long period of time, in a ways that will (in the majority of cases) disinterest the most tenacious and organized of trolls, not in an individual sense, but in a communal one.

They will find the act of trolling roleplayers less interesting in a total sense. This is the goal.

Said more simply, I am suggesting a short term sacrifice for a long term payoff.

I should probably credit Val for this particular post, too. Ildur, and then Valystia, were pretty dang enlightening to read, in terms of the two ways of looking at this.

xaaniko · **08-10-2013, 03:08 PM**

This was a really good read. Anyone with any experience of trolls in the past will be aware of what to do in this instances, but you took time out to explain why and that's what is going to help people deal with them. Well done, you.

Dehqon · **08-14-2013, 06:25 AM**

As somebody who has spent much time feeling like an outsider to the RP community, this is a great read. Especially the first part about how to break the stereotypes.

A quick welcome from a group of roleplayers can make a newbie's day when they've bounced from one RP "hub" to another and been ignored (or worse, told to go away) by other roleplayers. There shouldn't need to be some secret sign to bypass the "elitist" shell of a clique. In fact I think that's why you'll sometimes see people stumbling around into taverns while bleeding to death or other cliche "LOOK AT ME" things: they're desperate for somebody, anybody, to respond and haven't felt any success by acting more normal. Or they may just be trolling, but that doesn't mean they should still be ignored and proven to that roleplayers are as elitist as always.

The only other thing I've also run across is the ERP thing, to which I have this to say: There's more to life than relationships IRL, so why make your character's life (at least in public) all about who they are dating? A character who is fused at the shoulder with their significant other can give off Overly Obsessed Girlfriend/Boyfriend vibes which can be very unpleasant for those who've experienced it IRL. Not only that, but it ties into the elitist stereotype if the only people the couple will talk to are those deemed "safe" and play along with how cute they are all the time.

That's enough rambling for now. Feel free to blast me for missing the point or whatever. Bomb

Quillian · **08-14-2013, 02:28 PM**

The suggestion that you made, Yeldir, about dropping out of character and engaging then jumping back into character seamlessly reminds me of the concept of improvisation in theater. Â

In improv you have to be able to roll with the punches and kind of direct the conversation or the scene in the way that you want it. Â It can almost be like you're playing two scenes at once, one in character and one out of character. Â There are lots of different kinds of actors out there. Â Some are better at improvisation and others are amazing method actors who get almost dangerously into character. Â Neither one is better than the other, but they both deal with situations differently, which is not to say bad at all.

I think the people who balk at the idea of acknowledgement towards the trolls and deescalating the situation in that way are just this, they are more focused method actors. Â That's completely fine. But the problem is that the situation that we're in isn't ideal. Â We're street performers. Â We're comedians. Â We have to deal with the random individual who happens to stumble upon us. Â This can be disruptive, or could even make the roleplay better. Â It's just as much about our style as the people who disrupt us. Â

When a comedian is heckled they can react in a couple of different ways, and I think those ways very much parallel the ideas you suggested. Â If ignoring works for you, then go for it. Â I, personally, don't have the concentration to ignore trolls like that (though I can't say that I've run into them that much). Â But if you're able to improvise, then improvise, yeah?

Aldeus · **08-14-2013, 02:46 PM**

Pride is a fool's fortress.Â Just come back to Balmung, we miss you all Big Grin

Why subject yourself to playing on the official troll server?Â Because of legacy players?Â My FC mate summed it up pretty well.Â He said it was like going to a bar with your friends, but leaving to drink by yourself because the regulars were there.

Just my two cents.Â I hope you guys have fun doing whatever you do Thumbsup

Yeldir Melfusor · **08-14-2013, 03:09 PM**

Aldeus, there are threads for that line of discussion. This isn't one of them.

Asyria · **08-14-2013, 06:15 PM**

(08-14-2013, 03:09 PM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: Aldeus, there are threads for that line of discussion. Â This isn't one of them.

QFT.

Kudos for that field guide, it gave me a new perspective on Tavern RP that I strangely never thought about.

My solutions to dealing with trolls in the past have been either to ignore (not very efficient) or counter-troll (the troll either feels ashamed of their failure and leaves or treats you as a bro for your trolling skillz, I've seen both happen).

Still planning to try your sugegstion and see how it goes.

All in all, we just gotta remember that those people are humans, just like us.

Kossori · **08-14-2013, 06:19 PM**

(08-14-2013, 02:46 PM)Aldeus Wrote: Pride is a fool's fortress.Â Just come back to Balmung, we miss you all

Why subject yourself to playing on the official troll server?Â Because of legacy players?Â My FC mate summed it up pretty well.Â He said it was like going to a bar with your friends, but leaving to drink by yourself because the regulars were there.

Just my two cents.Â I hope you guys have fun doing whatever you do

No.

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RPing in hostile territory: A field guide to looking good and rolling with punches.

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