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Artigan · **12-22-2014, 05:18 AM**

(12-22-2014, 04:42 AM)Clover Wrote:
(12-22-2014, 02:30 AM)Artigan Wrote: Anyone from any culture can critique and find faults in design choices. You shouldn't assume an individual is looking at a product through an ethnocentric lens.

Not true, from Dragon Age Origins, Awakening, 2, and Inquisition the party, cast, or heroes and heroines have been varied and diverse: elderly, young, pretty, handsome, rugged, beautiful, masculine, effeminate, cute, rough, scarred, ugly, and so forth, and that goes for Protagonists and Antagonists as well. Fenris is not the entirety or an acute representation of Thedas. Stop being disingenuous and misrepresenting the series.

You certainly don't have to agree with anyone on anything, but you also shouldn't expect anyone to swallow your nonsense of "don't judge things from your personal perspective."

No one in this entire thread said: Western desires or wants are the "truest." No one here has tried opening up a Salon full of snub Persians saying how art "must" be done. Get off this ridiculous tangent.Â

I can, anyone in fact, judge any product, art, or something created for public consumption and state my thoughts on such objects. If I like or dislike a product or art because it doesn't meet a standard that is fair.

No one here stated what is the correct way to "art."

Are some of you purposely putting up fallacies of red herrings, non sequiturs, and complete irrelevancies, or do you honestly think in such delusional fashions?

Um, I don't appreciate the way you're trying to turn this situation around. This isn't about you judging a product but about the way you chose to do it. Let's start with the beginning: you did open this thread to mock/complain about FF15 characters, calling them names like "dolls", "effeminate", and "unrealistic". To reinforce this, you didn't speak against any of the mockery that followed, which had more unsavoury references to how real men should be. And now you are trying to argue that you have not made or provoked such obvious references, and that your words are the most innocent.

Now let's see if I can make my point across, as this is, indeed, a Western VS Eastern thing.

I don't think that FF15 characters look effeminate or unrealistic. To me, they look absolutely normal. Japanese media is full of that kind of boys, they are the norm for the beauty standard there. They look effeminate from a Western standard of what a "real man" should look like, see what I mean?
So, they're not unrealistic, for there are tons of Japanese celebrities who look like them. Example:

And this takes me to the next point: does any Dragon Age character look like them? Nope, not at all. Dragon Age might have a variety of characters, but it's a variety within the Western standards. This is why I don't personally feel that Dragon Age characters offer the mentioned variety, the same reason why you don't find variety in FF15 characters while I do.

And last but not least, it's not bad if you personally don't like them, but the mocking tone from this whole thread (from both your comments and other posters you certainly have not argued with) doesn't sound right. I'm a bit tired of people complaining or implying that Japanese male characters are "too effeminate" or "too gay", or that SE should make different males despite the fact that SE is a Japanese company, and they belong to a whole new culture where those boys fit the normal standard of attractiveness.

(I don't want to continue arguing, so I hope I made my point clear ;;;. Let's agree to disagree?)

I don't have to join any bandwagon or join any group think. If you don't like someone's comment, statement, or line of thinking then take it up with them. I am not the admins, your white knight, or a thought police.

I never claimed to be innocent, once again another ridiculous tangent you want to go on to skirt away from your radical claims and delusions. No one said how art must be done nor equated how art must conform to a cultural standard. You made this make believes and non issues up.

The heroes of FF15 is a bunch of Ken dolls. Nothing is realistic about a bunch of pretty boys saving the world or fighting armies.

Are you seriously using appeals to popularity and media as a heuristic?

So what if I or anyone else mocked a game for a design choice? What is your point? Stop having a sense of humor I don't agree with?

Alright, clearly you live in a world of infomercials and reality television. You can have fun in that vacuum of West vs East.

Who exactly am I suppose to argue to meet your bar? When I meet that bar where will you move it next? I can't debate the world. I choose you because of the logical inconsistencies you rampantly display. Your seriously turning Dragon Age into a "Western" reference and now bringing your circular reasoning round once more to Eastern norms and imagined issues of people claiming what a "real man is." What is with you and turning this thread into a ethnocentric debate, making shit up, and not one of critiquing a game? I have to assume at this point you are a troll or seriously delusional.

You are calling the characters too gay and implying so, no one else did. I or anyone else saying a cast is too effeminate will leave me with this final thought: so fucking what? You can be tired all you want at these "complaints." I honestly do not care. You didn't have to throw your dog in this thread.

FF15: Men or Dolls?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes