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Berrod Armstrong · **09-23-2014, 01:36 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:33 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I think we can all agree that certain things are Subjective and certain things are objective.

Subjective: Primals Always Temper, All Warriors of Light have the Echo, etc

Objective: There is only but one Slayer Azure Dragoon born into a generation, Elementals told people who weren't the Padjal to eff off.

I think anything in the subjective pile is interesting to discuss but on an RP stand point your free to play it as fast and loose as you want. Anything Objective is locked behind a lore gate.

This is actually why I like discussing lore, it's my favorite subject after all - player and game lore - , because discussions warrant what is and what is not subjective. As a player you can't possibly know everything and someone else may know something you don't.

Oh! I think It's objective that Primals do not always temper, since Titan doesn't temper at all. Could rephrase it to, *Named Primals* Always temper.

...on another vein...I wonder if Ramuh always tempers, or if he does trials by combat a lot...THINGS TO THINK ABOUT MMM LORE

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-23-2014, 01:38 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:34 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I was under the impression that anyone with the Echo is a Warrior of Light by default simply because the Echo IS Hydaelyn's blessing under a different name, and anything blessed by Hydaelyn is in fact blessed under The Light of the Goddess.

As for the problem of being scouted by the Scions, my solution to that was very simple: she doesn't answer to them. They can't force her to join or to take their orders, only encourage her and pressure her to do so. And that can only go so far, especially with certain personality types that aren't prone or obliged towards feats of heroism. She'll still help occasionally, but only when doing so is convenient to her in some way. Pretty simple, really.

Not quite. Echo awakenings happened en-masse in 1.0 (which we're supposed to take as like a prequal now), but not everyone used it to fight primals. The only people that get the WoL disgnation are the 1.0 players that were in the Battle of Carteneau or the players that take the MSQ as their lore. (Or at least the Echo and game-beating parts of it).

**09-23-2014, 01:38 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:20 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It gets tricky. Safe to think ALL Warriors of Light had the Echo, but not all Echo users might be Warriors of Light; Everyone in the Scions has the Echo but the Echo manifests in different ways for everyone. We're not even sure if everyone with the Echo is immune to Tempering, we just have good reasons to suspect it - Specifically that it's a gift from Hydaelyn.

So that leads to a new potential issue: We know the Scions are looking for people with that sort of specific aetheric frequency; It's why you just so happened to keep running into your guiding NPC during the opening MSQ. Those Sharlayan goggles make it easy to find out who's force sensi- er, endowed with the Echo. So if you've got it, you've got Important Named People looking for you, too. Sure, they might have just never found you, but it's just one more "hey, wait a minute..." thing that the No Fun Allowed squads will frown upon.

Enh. It's fun to antagonize those sorts.

Who's to say they didn't find your character and they just declined the offer? Big Grin

Leanne · **09-23-2014, 01:40 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:34 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I was under the impression that anyone with the Echo is a Warrior of Light by default simply because the Echo IS Hydaelyn's blessing under a different name, and anything blessed by Hydaelyn is in fact blessed under The Light of the Goddess.

As for the problem of being scouted by the Scions, my solution to that was very simple: she doesn't answer to them. They can't force her to join or to take their orders, only encourage her and pressure her to do so. And that can only go so far, especially with certain personality types that aren't prone or obliged towards feats of heroism. She'll still help occasionally, but only when doing so is convenient to her in some way. Pretty simple, really.

Warriors of Light are actually the players/adventurers pre calamity, who no one can remember because of the blinding light surrounding them whenever someone tries to remember them. Having the echo or not is a completely different thing. I wouldn't be surprise if one or ten warriors of light are just your beat of the mill heroes that was saved from bahamut by lousioix.

EDIT: Oh, Warren beat me to it.....still!

Zyrusticae · **09-23-2014, 01:41 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:38 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Not quite. Echo awakenings happened en-masse in 1.0 (which we're supposed to take as like a prequal now), but not everyone used it to fight primals. The only people that get the WoL disgnation are the 1.0 players that were in the Battle of Carteneau or the players that take the MSQ as their lore. (Or at least the Echo and game-beating parts of it).

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Warri...antasy_XIV

Quote:Near completion of the main plot, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and all player characters (i.e. including those created in Realm Reborn) are referred to as Warriors of Light by the leaders of the Grand Companies. The player character is referred to as a Warrior of Light specifically by Hydaelyn.

I will continue to contend that anyone with the Echo is a WoL simply by association with Hydaelyn.

Leanne · **09-23-2014, 01:43 PM**

One thing though, personally, you can RP whatever you want, AS LONG as you have a reasonable story behind it. Leanne is a bard. Not your run of the mill bard, but a bard with a soul gem. To run away from the usual godsbow story, I chose to have a moogle find Leanne midst the shroud, deem her a good candidate for the gem, AND teach her the art, since as far as I'm aware/I remember, it was the moogles who tried to offer the power to Gilbert, only for him to refuse. To me, it is an acceptable story. For other who still insist I shouldn't be a bard, but simply an archer that doubles as a musician, I simply ask unfortunately that if they don't like it, they simply can avoid my RP =X. I don't want to force them to accept my Bard RP, so if they want to interact with me, it is completely their choice. I just wish they respect my choice to RP as the happy go lucky bard with a terrible wanderlust that Leanne is.

Berrod Armstrong · **09-23-2014, 01:45 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:41 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 01:38 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Not quite. Echo awakenings happened en-masse in 1.0 (which we're supposed to take as like a prequal now), but not everyone used it to fight primals. The only people that get the WoL disgnation are the 1.0 players that were in the Battle of Carteneau or the players that take the MSQ as their lore. (Or at least the Echo and game-beating parts of it).
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Warri...antasy_XIV

Quote:Near completion of the main plot, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and all player characters (i.e. including those created in Realm Reborn) are referred to as Warriors of Light by the leaders of the Grand Companies. The player character is referred to as a Warrior of Light specifically by Hydaelyn.
I will continue to contend that anyone with the Echo is a WoL simply by association with Hydaelyn.

Going by that logic means that all player characters are also members of the Scions.Â

Quote:The Warriors of Light are stated to be the band ofÂ AdventurersÂ (i.e. the players) that helped protect the city-states and form the Eorzean Alliance during the events leading up to theÂ Seventh Umbral Era. They took to the field during the Battle on the plains of Mor Dhona and were apparently lost during the unleashing of Bahamut. Their name derives from the fact that whenever people try to remember them, all they can remember is a silhouette surrounded by a blinding light.

I think that ^ is the more relevant part of what was linked; everything that came after it seemed to be from a gameplay perspective.

TheLastCandle · **09-23-2014, 01:51 PM**

Enh.. Just for example's sake, my own character is a guy who can wield a few weapons (but no magic) with varying degrees of skill, a former dragoon by virtue of having participated in the war against the Dravanians, and one who employs some of the traditional abilities - i.e. aether-aided Jumping attacks with a barbed lance that's designed to be effective against hardened scales. It's a relatively small part of his character, in the long run. In fact, despite his "job" related background his default weapon is a bastard sword, and frequently uses a longbow.

Not much else to add, but in the end, honestly? Do what you want and have fun. I've seen some clever ways of bending the lore to fit a character into one of the more.. exclusive jobs. If someone expresses doubt IC, as long as they're not berating you OOC, just roll with it. The only real advice I'd have, which I believe would be preaching to the choir here on the RPC, would be to play the character more so than the job.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-23-2014, 01:52 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:45 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 01:41 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 01:38 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Not quite. Echo awakenings happened en-masse in 1.0 (which we're supposed to take as like a prequal now), but not everyone used it to fight primals. The only people that get the WoL disgnation are the 1.0 players that were in the Battle of Carteneau or the players that take the MSQ as their lore. (Or at least the Echo and game-beating parts of it).
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Warri...antasy_XIV

Quote:Near completion of the main plot, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and all player characters (i.e. including those created in Realm Reborn) are referred to as Warriors of Light by the leaders of the Grand Companies. The player character is referred to as a Warrior of Light specifically by Hydaelyn.
I will continue to contend that anyone with the Echo is a WoL simply by association with Hydaelyn.
Going by that logic means that all player characters are also members of the Scions.Â

Quote:The Warriors of Light are stated to be the band ofÂ AdventurersÂ (i.e. the players) that helped protect the city-states and form the Eorzean Alliance during the events leading up to theÂ Seventh Umbral Era. They took to the field during the Battle on the plains of Mor Dhona and were apparently lost during the unleashing of Bahamut. Their name derives from the fact that whenever people try to remember them, all they can remember is a silhouette surrounded by a blinding light.

I think that ^ is the more relevant part of what was linked; everything that came after it seemed to be from a gameplay perspective.

I can add to this.Â

I played 1.0. got to maybe lv35 on Botany. (Yes, I was /that/ guy who only leveled something to get the goobbue mount and legacy status. It made my laptop burn like fire the entire time).Â

I have the legacy tattoo, but I wasn't a Warrior of Light by the game's definition. I didn't get any special cutscenes or references to my time in the game. I wasn't able to fight in the server-dying battle. It's more of a contradiction, because I have some of the Warrior of Light things, but not all of them.

Zyrusticae · **09-23-2014, 01:55 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:45 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Going by that logic means that all player characters are also members of the Scions.

Not really. The Echo is the Blessing of Light. Ergo anyone with the Echo can be said to be a Warrior of Light...

I mean, there's not really anything to discuss here. You can say that it's only those who are seen in memory as blinding silhouettes but I won't agree with that at all. I just see it as another title for anyone blessed by Hydaelyn. Blame Squeenix for that one.

Edit: Remember that the Warrior of Light title, in all the games in which it appears, is used specifically for anyone chosen by the crystal(s), the crystal in FFXIV being Hydaelyn Herself. Having the Echo means you were chosen, hence Warrior of Light.

Berrod Armstrong · **09-23-2014, 02:03 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:55 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 01:45 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Going by that logic means that all player characters are also members of the Scions.

Not really. The Echo is the Blessing of Light. Ergo anyone with the Echo can be said to be a Warrior of Light...

I mean, there's not really anything to discuss here. You can say that it's only those who are seen in memory as blinding silhouettes but I won't agree with that at all. I just see it as another title for anyone blessed by Hydaelyn. Blame Squeenix for that one.

Quote:The Warriors of Light are stated to be the band of Adventurers (i.e. the players) that helped protect the city-states and form the Eorzean Alliance during the events leading up to the Seventh Umbral Era. They took to the field during the Battle on the plains of Mor Dhona and were apparently lost during the unleashing of Bahamut. Their name derives from the fact that whenever people try to remember them, all they can remember is a silhouette surrounded by a blinding light

This, andÂ

Quote:Not really. The Echo is the Blessing of Light. Ergo anyone with the Echo can be said to be a Warrior of Light...

This.

If you put them side by side, the lore's definition of a Warrior of Light (NOT the gameplay's) is completely different from yours. If you wish to see it that way, that's fine, but it's a vastly inaccurate perspective. I can't really blame Square for that. However! Play as you like -- just don't expect ALL players of characters with the echo to accept their character being called a Warrior of Light.Â

WHICH MAKES ME THINK.Â

DO all warriors of Light possess the echo? Is it at all possible for Joe Echoless the Adventuring Bastard son of Schmitty to have been at Carteneau? Would he have been swept away into the rift along with the others, or incinerated? If he WAS, would he be an echo-less, clueless Warrior of Light? THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. YOUR THOUGHTS?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-23-2014, 02:05 PM**

(09-23-2014, 01:55 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 01:45 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Going by that logic means that all player characters are also members of the Scions.

Not really. The Echo is the Blessing of Light. Ergo anyone with the Echo can be said to be a Warrior of Light...

I mean, there's not really anything to discuss here. You can say that it's only those who are seen in memory as blinding silhouettes but I won't agree with that at all. I just see it as another title for anyone blessed by Hydaelyn. Blame Squeenix for that one.

Edit: Remember that the Warrior of Light title, in all the games in which it appears, is used specifically for anyone chosen by the crystal(s), the crystal in FFXIV being Hydaelyn Herself. Having the Echo means you were chosen, hence Warrior of Light.

But that....backwards. At least in this game. Warriors of light are more specialized Echo-bearers.Â

Let me make a comparison with something else.

Assume having the Echo is like having a dog. (generic)

Being a Warrior of Light is like have a Corgi (or some other particular breed of a dog.)

All Corgis are dogs, but all dogs aren't corgis.Â

...I'm not sure if my point's making it across anymore. But having the Echo isn't the same as being a Warrior of Light.Â

There could be plenty of people with the Echo that are scared as shit for hearing some voice in their heads telling them to "hear. feal. listen." all the time. It won't make them pick up a weapon and run towards danger.

Kage · **09-23-2014, 02:08 PM**

(09-23-2014, 02:03 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Is it at all possible for Joe Echoless the Adventuring Bastard son of Schmitty to have been at Carteneau? Would he have been swept away into the rift along with the others, or incinerated? If he WAS, would he be an echo-less, clueless Warrior of Light? THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. YOUR THOUGHTS?

I thought this was a yes.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-23-2014, 02:12 PM**

(09-23-2014, 02:08 PM)Kage Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 02:03 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Is it at all possible for Joe Echoless the Adventuring Bastard son of Schmitty to have been at Carteneau? Would he have been swept away into the rift along with the others, or incinerated? If he WAS, would he be an echo-less, clueless Warrior of Light? THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. YOUR THOUGHTS?
I thought this was a yes.

I think this is a yes, but have not seen confirmation.

Berrod Armstrong · **09-23-2014, 02:13 PM**

(09-23-2014, 02:12 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 02:08 PM)Kage Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 02:03 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Is it at all possible for Joe Echoless the Adventuring Bastard son of Schmitty to have been at Carteneau? Would he have been swept away into the rift along with the others, or incinerated? If he WAS, would he be an echo-less, clueless Warrior of Light? THINGS TO THINK ABOUT. YOUR THOUGHTS?
I thought this was a yes.

I think this is a yes, but have not seen confirmation.

The possibility blows my mind, I may take this to the lore forums.Â

my mind is kind of telling me that it's just an inconvenient loophole but now i really wanna find out

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