RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Edgar · **09-25-2014, 01:40 PM**

(09-25-2014, 12:12 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 11:21 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Someone through the game asked me if it is even possible to be a Sultansworn while being a Maelstrom/Twin Adder soldier, and I really didn't give him a straight answer because I felt like that's really the matter of changing alliance to becoming one with Ul'dah instead.Â

You can't really be Immortal Flame and you work for Yellowjacket... Well, I don't think you can. Or Maelstrom soldier working for Brass Blade (but then again, you -could-).

But would you be under Sultansworn as a spy for Limsa or just as a diplomatical position to grow the alliance between two nations? That was rather a question.

But I think it'd be interesting for a person to become a Maelstrom and become Sultansworn, by protecting both the Limsa and Sultana. lol... but I just said I'll ask in RPC and here I am.

This is one of the only limits I feel is needed. If you are Adder ooc, thats one thing, but if its IC, then absolutely not. In my mind, the Sworn are closest to related to the Specialist Operations under the Metropolitan Police of London. There is no way some man or woman who were serving in a foreign military would be allowed to be part of Royalty Protection or even Specialist Protection.

For an overview of what I mean read this. I feel this is the best real life model we could use to provide maximum creative freedom while still providing limitations to keep us in "special snowflake" check. I highly recommend all Sworn RPers read up on the London Metro's Protection Command.

Let me put it simply. The Sultansworn swear an oath of fealty to the Sultana. Not the Elementals.

Erik Mynhier · **09-25-2014, 02:02 PM**

(09-25-2014, 01:40 PM)Edgar Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 12:12 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 11:21 AM)Aldotsk Wrote: Someone through the game asked me if it is even possible to be a Sultansworn while being a Maelstrom/Twin Adder soldier, and I really didn't give him a straight answer because I felt like that's really the matter of changing alliance to becoming one with Ul'dah instead.Â

You can't really be Immortal Flame and you work for Yellowjacket... Well, I don't think you can. Or Maelstrom soldier working for Brass Blade (but then again, you -could-).

But would you be under Sultansworn as a spy for Limsa or just as a diplomatical position to grow the alliance between two nations? That was rather a question.

But I think it'd be interesting for a person to become a Maelstrom and become Sultansworn, by protecting both the Limsa and Sultana. lol... but I just said I'll ask in RPC and here I am.

This is one of the only limits I feel is needed. If you are Adder ooc, thats one thing, but if its IC, then absolutely not. In my mind, the Sworn are closest to related to the Specialist Operations under the Metropolitan Police of London. There is no way some man or woman who were serving in a foreign military would be allowed to be part of Royalty Protection or even Specialist Protection.

For an overview of what I mean read this. I feel this is the best real life model we could use to provide maximum creative freedom while still providing limitations to keep us in "special snowflake" check. I highly recommend all Sworn RPers read up on the London Metro's Protection Command.

Let me put it simply. The Sultansworn swear an oath of fealty to the Sultana. Not the Elementals.

Damn straight Edgar. Stupid pissy elementals.

Kage · **09-25-2014, 04:21 PM**

(09-25-2014, 03:58 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: there may be say a Sultansworn RPer who doesn't know pertinent Ul'dah lore that may or may not relate to being a Sultansworn?

Like I'm sure most Sultansworn know who the founder of the Sultansworn is, and how long ago that was... but how many would be able to name the Sultan in charge before Nanamo? If your character has been a Sultansworn for at least a decade, that's pertinent to you. Likewise, not many people know who writes the laws by which the Sultanate is bound.

Regarding "Sultanate" has it actually been defined in the game? Usually the generic definition is the land governed by the sultan(a). So the Sultansworn bound by the sultanate could actually be a vague definition...?

Also the Immortal Flames chart provided by SE seems to indicate (with the Blue header bar) that the Sultansworn, Stone Torches, and Brass Blades are answerable to the Syndicate.

Coatleque · **09-25-2014, 04:26 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:21 PM)Kage Wrote: Regarding "Sultanate" has it actually been defined in the game? Usually the generic definition is the land governed by the sultan(a). So the Sultansworn bound by the sultanate could actually be a vague definition...?

The term "Sultanate" I would imagine as stated means the realm that is ruled by the Sultan/Sultana. You could simply interchange this with "Thanalan". She is the monarch of Ul'dah and its territory. This, consequently, has nothing to do with the political power of the syndicate. It is simply a term that defines the nation's sovereign territory.

Coatleque · **09-25-2014, 04:32 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:21 PM)Kage Wrote: Also the Immortal Flames chart provided by SE seems to indicate (with the Blue header bar) that the Sultansworn, Stone Torches, and Brass Blades are answerable to the Syndicate.

If you mean the chart below, the line simply says "request for aid". It does not mean they answer to the Syndicate, but that the Syndicate has the right to request the Sultana cooperate with the other branches when martial force is required.

Hence, the Sultansworn did fight at Carteneau from what I've read. I don't know where it confirms that in-game however.

[Image: FFXIV_Uldah_Diagram.png]

Kage · **09-25-2014, 04:37 PM**

The request for aid is in relation to the Immortal Flames' Hall relations with Sultansworn. It's the pink line connecting Hall of Flames to Sultansworn. That has no relation to how there are headers for the Syndicate (Blue) and headers for the Immortal Flames (Green)

Coatleque · **09-25-2014, 04:41 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:37 PM)Kage Wrote: The request for aid is in relation to the Immortal Flames' Hall relations with Sultansworn. It's the pink line connecting Hall of Flames to Sultansworn. That has no relation to how there are headers for the Syndicate (Blue) and headers for the Immortal Flames (Green)

I understand that as well. But also, the Sultansworn has its own blue header signifying it is a separate entity, with no black line connecting it above to the Syndicate.

I think it's safe to say they do not answer directly to them. But knowing how the city is run, I am sure they could pressure Nanamo to discipline one of her guards who are making too many waves in the status quo.

Kage · **09-25-2014, 04:45 PM**

The black lines I think signify who they report directly to. Who has direct control over them vs who has some control over them.

Notice: There is no black line for the Sultansworn to directly report to Sultante/Sultana/other

Aldotsk · **09-25-2014, 04:46 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:37 PM)Kage Wrote: The request for aid is in relation to the Immortal Flames' Hall relations with Sultansworn. It's the pink line connecting Hall of Flames to Sultansworn. That has no relation to how there are headers for the Syndicate (Blue) and headers for the Immortal Flames (Green)

The Green is indeed as you said all related to Raubahn and Immortal Flames.

Blue is all part of Royalist/Monetarist connected parties outside of military, and that works inside Ul'dah city.

Make note that Sultansworn is still the highest comparing to Stone Torches and Brass Blades due to the amount of training and Trials a paladin would go through.

In other words, while Sultanworns are Royalist political interest, does not mean they disobey monetarist sides of Syndicates because Syndicate itself is the highest political party that watches over everything below from the chart. Higher than Syndicate is Sultana.

Black line to designated square is that the Syndicate of XYZ funds the ABC group. So Lolorito funds to keep Brass Blade intact, and Fyrgeiss of Amaljina and Sons fund Stone Torches.

NOTE: Do you see the Sultansworns job description is to be shield for royal family of Ul'dah? It means Syndicates are labeled as noble and royal family to monitor Ul'dah. Which means Sultansworns are to protect Syndicates too. But should there be Syndicate vs Sultana, we know where Â our priority is.

Coatleque · **09-25-2014, 04:51 PM**

I believe you are not reading the chart correctly. It is not showing what branch is 'above' another. The lines do not say this branch answers to that branch in any way. Just because the Sultansworn box is below the Syndicate box doesn't infer the one is "over" the other.

This is simply a chart that shows how each organization interacts with the others when martial force is necessary. In other words, it is saying the Flame General is not the General of the Sworn. He only directly commands the Immortal Flames, but can ask the Sworn for assistance.

The Sultana is not in the chart because she was not involved in the discussion that led to its creation.

{edit} Ul'dahn royal family, not families. It in no way infers anyone other than the house of Ul

Kage · **09-25-2014, 04:55 PM**

herp I read it wrongs

Aldotsk · **09-25-2014, 04:58 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:51 PM)Coatleque Wrote: I believe you are not reading the chart correctly. Â It is not showing what branch is 'above' another. Â The lines do not say this branch answers to that branch in any way. Â Just because the Sultansworn box is below the Syndicate box doesn't infer the one is "over" the other.

This is simply a chart that shows how each organization interacts with the others when martial force is necessary. Â In other words, it is saying the Flame General is not the General of the Sworn. Â He only directly commands the Immortal Flames, but can ask the Sworn for assistance.

The Sultana is not in the chart because she was not involved in the discussion that led to its creation.

{edit} Ul'dahn royal family, not families. Â It in no way infers anyone other than the house of Ul

But you have to understand that in Chain of Commands, Sultansworns cannot equally be on the same ranks to equally match with Syndicates. Even in lore wise, the Sultansworns are treated below Syndicates. Sure the chart is to show an example of martial force system in Immortal Flames and Ul'dah, but They did leave the giant bubble above because it is literally the high rank based organization. Syndicates are something similar to Prime Minister position.

Coatleque · **09-25-2014, 05:03 PM**

(09-25-2014, 04:58 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: But you have to understand that in Chain of Commands, Sultansworns cannot equally be on the same ranks to equally match with Syndicates.

Without a doubt. I will not contest this. In fact, I hinted at it in one of my previous replies. While the Syndicate have no authority to order the Sultansworn around, I am sure every Paladin is sure to tread lightly around them for the very reason that they could hold a vote and force Namano to take action and discipline them.

It's a position of mutual respect. The Sworn stay out of their way, and they allow the organization to continue to exist.

At the same time, if Nanamo ever grew a spine, she could theoretically order her Sultansworn to round up and kill the entire Syndicate. She could use them and literally seize back full control of the city. But she does not do this for many reasons (They are outnumbered by blades, the economy would collapse, there would be immense political blowback, etc).

Edgar · **09-25-2014, 05:11 PM**

(09-25-2014, 05:03 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 04:58 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: But you have to understand that in Chain of Commands, Sultansworns cannot equally be on the same ranks to equally match with Syndicates.

Without a doubt. Â I will not contest this. Â In fact, I hinted at it in one of my previous replies. Â While the Syndicate have no authority to order the Sultansworn around, I am sure every Paladin is sure to tread lightly around them for the very reason that they could hold a vote and force Namano to take action and discipline them.

It's a position of mutual respect. Â The Sworn stay out of their way, and they allow the organization to continue to exist.

At the same time, if Nanamo ever grew a spine, she could theoretically order her Sultansworn to round up and kill the entire Syndicate. Â She could use them and literally seize back full control of the city. Â But she does not do this for many reasons (They are outnumbered by blades, the economy would collapse, there would be immense political blowback...

...Nanamo wouldn't hurt a fly...

Sounsyy · **09-25-2014, 05:12 PM**

Forgive me I has opened wormy can! ; ;

(09-25-2014, 04:18 PM)Kage Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 03:58 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: there may be say a Sultansworn RPer who doesn't know pertinent Ul'dah lore that may or may not relate to being a Sultansworn?

Like I'm sure most Sultansworn know who the founder of the Sultansworn is, and how long ago that was... but how many would be able to name the Sultan in charge before Nanamo? If your character has been a Sultansworn for at least a decade, that's pertinent to you. Likewise, not many people know who writes the laws by which the Sultanate is bound.
((Not to hi-jack this thread but... I totally sorta said 'no' to most of these >< Perhaps maybe you may be able to elaborate on something I also wanted to comment on in the "guide" thread?))

As for the definition of Sultanate, I believe Coatleque has the right of it. At least, that's always how I had seen "Sultanate." Basically, the realm controlled by Ul'dah's sultan(a).

As for the other stuff. Nanamo Ul Namo is only 21 years old at the start of ARR. Meaning she can't have been Sultana for more than 10 years. At least not without a Regent, of which I've never seen any mention of. So, that means if your character has been in Ul'dah since 1567~ish give or take, then you have experienced Ul'dahn rule under the former Sultan, Sasabaru.

As for the laws by which the Sultana, the Syndicate, and all of the Sultanate are bound, they were drafted and created by Priors of the Arrzaneth Ossuary(THM Guild). Up until the Calamity, the Order of Nald'thal was led by the High Priest Mumuepo. (Who was later banished by Nanamo to live out his days in Halatali.) It was heavily suggested in 1.0 that Mumuepo took bribes from the Syndicate. Considering the Director of the Milvaneth Sacrarium, Dewlala, remains on the Syndicate to this day speaks volumes to how easily one may sway laws and politics with enough gil.

As for the founder... the Brotherhood of the Sultansworn was formed by three Paladins led by one Jhal Tristam the True, between 600 and 800 years ago. Three legendary swords were crafted for the three founders. The Curtana belonging to Tristam. The other two swords and Paladins are never named to the best of my knowledge. However, pulling from the real life legends of Charlemagne, in which Tristam, a Knight of the Round Table, also possessed a sword named Curtana. The sword also "coincidentally" belonged to a set of three, the other two being Joyeuse and Durendal. (Both popular, reoccurring swords in the FF franchise.)

(09-25-2014, 04:51 PM)Coatleque Wrote: {edit} Ul'dahn royal family, not families. It in no way infers anyone other than the house of Ul

I believe this also still includes Teledji Adeledji, as he is an Ul prince. Good luck balancing that can of worms in a few patches. =x

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The Sultansworn RP Guide

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes