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(10-14-2014, 04:07 PM)Melkire Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:06 PM)Oscare Wrote: IT WAS MY IDEA FIRST.

THIS IS WHY ME AND ASKIER CAN'T HAVE FUN

JUST GIVE US OUR GUNS PLS DON'T BE SUCH A SPOIL SPORT, OSRIC. FIRST YOU DON'T MARRY ME AND NOW YOU'RE RESTRICTING MY RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

That picture. So much win. 

But I second giving Garleans guns. GGKTHXBAI

It should also be noted that the bullets shot by Gaius were rendered ineffective by use of magic and pure Yda power. Slow enough that Yda could punch them. Papalymo and Yshtola could stop or deflect them with MAGICK. I mean. Aether.

Whatever.

So they aren't these things that will turn the tide in any sort of fight.

The Coral Tower has a rack of bolt-action rifles in it. The modelers may have been trying to make muskets, but those are absolutely bolt-action rifles and so long as those are in the game, I'll maintain that rifling technology exists in Limsa, if not all of Eorzea.

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Kage Wrote: It should also be noted that the bullets shot by Gaius were rendered ineffective by use of magic and pure Yda power. Slow enough that Yda could punch them. Papalymo and Yshtola could stop or deflect them with MAGICK. I mean. Aether.

Whatever.

So they aren't these things that will turn the tide in any sort of fight.

They killed the shit out of Natalie though didnt they?

Or are our guns different than theirs?

This is another case in which we just have to accept a truth about FFXIV lore, that there is no global consistency.

There seem to be literal ley lines than run through Eorzea right along the national borders, and certain technologies will simply disappear if anyone attempts to cross these lines who isn't a Garlean.

How else can one explain that Merlwyb seems not even interested in acquiring Garlean weapons for study, when Lominsans already use ship-mounted gunpowder cannons?

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Kage Wrote: It should also be noted that the bullets shot by Gaius were rendered ineffective by use of magic and pure Yda power. Slow enough that Yda could punch them. Papalymo and Yshtola could stop or deflect them with MAGICK. I mean. Aether.

Whatever.

So they aren't these things that will turn the tide in any sort of fight.

He does say, "Impressive." which I would wager means that either her ability to cast the defensive spell she did was either fast, a high level, or unusually strong, or some combination of the above. They're also all "Badasses" fighting on par with a guy who can fire more rounds than his weapon suggests he should be able to xP

(10-14-2014, 04:15 PM)OttoVann Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Kage Wrote: It should also be noted that the bullets shot by Gaius were rendered ineffective by use of magic and pure Yda power. Slow enough that Yda could punch them. Papalymo and Yshtola could stop or deflect them with MAGICK. I mean. Aether.

Whatever.

So they aren't these things that will turn the tide in any sort of fight.

They killed the shit out of Natalie though didnt they?

Or are our guns different than theirs?

I do not know the details of what happened but from what I understand a) Natalie did not try to block it. B) She didn't get it treated so she died of blood loss.
Nothing to do with the gun or the shot itself.

(10-14-2014, 04:16 PM)Telluride Wrote: How else can one explain that Merlwyb seems not even interested in acquiring Garlean weapons for study, when Lominsans already use ship-mounted gunpowder cannons?

Because the Grand Companies are currently lead by feeble-minded fools who can't distinguish proper governance from their own asses. 

a.k.a. exactly what Gaius tried to warn us about.

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Ryoko Wrote: The Coral Tower has a rack of bolt-action rifles in it. The modelers may have been trying to make muskets, but those are absolutely bolt-action rifles and so long as those are in the game, I'll maintain that rifling technology exists in Limsa, if not all of Eorzea.

They could very well be "needle guns" (IE: first/Zero generation Bolt-Action rifles) which pretty much keep in line with the technology cap of papercartidges. This does mean that advanced Rifling in general may not be the stage they're at, at least if paper cartridges are the standard.

That said, Rifling has existed since the 15th century as an extreme luxury as very few really understood its true function and effects and how to alter existing techniques. It wasn't commonplace as a standard knowledge or development technique until the 19th century.

(10-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Ryoko Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:16 PM)Telluride Wrote: How else can one explain that Merlwyb seems not even interested in acquiring Garlean weapons for study, when Lominsans already use ship-mounted gunpowder cannons?

Because the Grand Companies are currently lead by feeble-minded fools who can't distinguish proper governance from their own asses. 

a.k.a. exactly what Gaius tried to warn us about.

No argument here! Of the three nations, though, it seems to me that the Lominsans would be the most pragmatically-run government, since they were able to form a bunch of, essentially, anarchistic brigands into a comparatively stable nation, and are already well aware of the potential of artillery.

The Gridanians, by comparisons, are too scared of upsetting the local flora to embrace any real change, and when the essential characteristics for leadership are being horn-headed children, what else is expected?

One would -think- that Uldah would fare better, but Raubahn seems to be the type to simply throw more infantry at whatever threat there is, based on everything we see of him.

However, it does add a twist that, for all of the technology of the Garlean forces, their literal Ultimate Weapon relies on... magic.

Technically speaking, Eorzeans really wouldn't need any sort of gunpowder if two things happened:

1) The various magic-using guilds would work together to come up with solid, pragmatic battlefield applications of magic that were easily contained and controlled. If the lowest Arcanist scrub can summon a Carbuncle, why don't we have magic construct cavalry? How many stinkin' Thaumaturges do you need before you could essentially scour La Noscea completely free any Sahagin that didn't flee screaming back to the sea?

2) They would all stop relying so much on individual mercenaries whose agendas aren't under any sort of specific control - i.e. adventurers - to do every single thing for them.. or at least stop harassing the most potent free-range fighting force on the continent with stuff like fetching water buckets and picking apples.

Give me twenty of the best mages and blacksmiths on the continent, and we'll start producing Proton Packs that run off special sprite cores. Who the heck needs gunpowder?

Anyone interested in what happens when firearms meet a High-Fantasy setting should read GRUNTS by Mary Gentle, but don't expect scientific discourse. Also, it's a bit raunchy,

(10-14-2014, 04:22 PM)Hiro Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Ryoko Wrote: The Coral Tower has a rack of bolt-action rifles in it. The modelers may have been trying to make muskets, but those are absolutely bolt-action rifles and so long as those are in the game, I'll maintain that rifling technology exists in Limsa, if not all of Eorzea.

They could very well be "needle guns" (IE: first/Zero generation Bolt-Action rifles) which pretty much keep in line with the technology cap of papercartidges. This does mean that advanced Rifling in general may not be the stage they're at, at least if paper cartridges are the standard.

That said, Rifling has existed since the 15th century as an extreme luxury as very few really understood its true function and effects and how to alter existing techniques. It wasn't commonplace as a standard knowledge or development technique until the 19th century.

An excellent observation! Certainly something to consider. Now, I'm wondering about the spread of that technology. Specifically, in regards to Ishgard. The Ishgardians have shown that they make very liberal use of bombards (the cannon, not the creature) and harpoon guns. I'm wondering if they also have personal firearms, but maybe don't display them as prominently as the Lominsans?

(10-14-2014, 04:46 PM)Ryoko Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:22 PM)Hiro Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 04:13 PM)Ryoko Wrote: The Coral Tower has a rack of bolt-action rifles in it. The modelers may have been trying to make muskets, but those are absolutely bolt-action rifles and so long as those are in the game, I'll maintain that rifling technology exists in Limsa, if not all of Eorzea.

They could very well be "needle guns" (IE: first/Zero generation Bolt-Action rifles) which pretty much keep in line with the technology cap of papercartidges. This does mean that advanced Rifling in general may not be the stage they're at, at least if paper cartridges are the standard.

That said, Rifling has existed since the 15th century as an extreme luxury as very few really understood its true function and effects and how to alter existing techniques. It wasn't commonplace as a standard knowledge or development technique until the 19th century.

An excellent observation! Certainly something to consider. Now, I'm wondering about the spread of that technology. Specifically, in regards to Ishgard. The Ishgardians have shown that they make very liberal use of bombards (the cannon, not the creature) and harpoon guns. I'm wondering if they also have personal firearms, but maybe don't display them as prominently as the Lominsans?

Personal firearms probably exist but probably not on the Eorzea war front. Non-military standard equipment won't really be seen overseas, and short of their magitek hybrid weaponry "simple" firearms don't seem to be part of their military repertoire.

After reading this thread, I am seriously attempted to repurpose my Arcanist alt's story to make him a weapons designer, and start tracking down all the most potent blacksmiths, carpenters and mages in the three main cities, hoping to recruit them into a team to make a weapon big enough to take either Bahamut or a Garlean air fortress down with one shot.

It would be MASSIVELY canonical for Final Fantasy as a whole, since pretty much every "universe" of the franchise has a story around finding a way to take down the gargantuan Beast/Construct/Meteor/Fortress. The writers insist that a small team of heroes is always better, and too much of FF goes into showing how people who make Giant Guns are foolish and stupid, but that is a very Japanese perspective. While that perspective permeates a lot of anime, too, to be honest, not all of us are Japanese. Let's be honest - consider Star Wars. If the Rebellion could have kicked the Empire out of the Death Star and taken over the thing, instead of just blowing it up, you can bet your Calamari Traps they would have.

(10-14-2014, 05:00 PM)Telluride Wrote: After reading this thread, I am seriously attempted to repurpose my Arcanist alt's story to make him a weapons designer, and start tracking down all the most potent blacksmiths, carpenters and mages in the three main cities, hoping to recruit them into a team to make a weapon big enough to take either Bahamut or a Garlean air fortress down with one shot.

It would be MASSIVELY canonical for Final Fantasy as a whole, since pretty much every "universe" of the franchise has a story around finding a way to take down the gargantuan Beast/Construct/Meteor/Fortress. The writers insist that a small team of heroes is always better, and too much of FF goes into showing how people who make Giant Guns are foolish and stupid, but that is a very Japanese perspective. While that perspective permeates a lot of anime, too, to be honest, not all of us are Japanese. Let's be honest - consider Star Wars. If the Rebellion could have kicked the Empire out of the Death Star and taken over the thing, instead of just blowing it up, you can bet your Calamari Traps they would have.

Are you familiar with the Binding Coil of Bahamut? I believe that give a couple ideas. (Especially once 2.4 drops)

Muskets are not as rare as people are implying.

Muskets are standard issue to ALL Lominsan Armada personnel. In the 1.0 MSQ "Treasures of the Main" the Player Character attempts to join the Knights of the Barricuda (the name given to Lominsan Armada sailors) and the first trial is to demonstrate your skill with a musket. Unrelated, but because of your unorthodox style of holding the gun (see the screenshot someone posted earlier in this thread) you are actually relieved of the musket and told you could not join the Barricuda because your style was exactly that of a disgraced Barricuda captain from the Commodore's past.

That said there appear to be two types of musket. A pistol sized shown in cutscenes, and a long rifle style visualized hanging in the Coral Tower, which by the way, is STILL the Musketeer's Guild. The sign is still there in 2.0.

While I don't recall any details, it's likely Lominsan Muskets use firesand to fire, similar to Lominsa's cannons. So yes, gunpowder and muskets and stuff are all canon. (budumpsssh puns) Also, the fact that Lominsa's entire navy is trained to use Muskets as part of their arsenal suggests a very large stock of weaponry, making it highly probable for a character to get their hands on some or maybe to smuggle firearms illegally. =o Possibilities!